Harper needs to step down

[guyser]

Maybe 80% is a little high, but a majority of the media in Canada favors the left.

Hmm...in your link it said "Coverage by public television and radio is conservative compared to the rest of the mainstream media"

In all fairness it then says they "tilt" left. That of course is from the USA link. So much for 80,70,60 50 percent..huh?

. Both of them traveled in Dion's private jet during the election. those two guys are just a tip of the iceberg.

No one rode on Harpers jet? I would think someone did.

People like you are easily fooled and don't want to believe the REAL truth. Seamus O Regan and Jane Taber are two other liberal supporters working for CTV.

Nah, I am not easily fooled. I am not the one drinkning the kool aid now am I? Seamus is a TV host of a morning show. Not a reporter. Sorry, no go there either.

As for the CBC, if you don't think they favour the Liberals, then you're not getting out enough. Heather Mallick works for the CBC. Have you ever read any of her columns? She's as far left as you can get.

Actually for me "not to get that" means I would be out too much since TV is watched inside. However, Mallick is a bit of a sham and is a commentator.

Please read it so that you can become more informed.

I did read it thanks. Umm...one question did you?

Have a nice day.

Thank you, you too .

[TCCK]

bc chick this thread is as close to the dumbest so far in this forum. He gained more seats and exposed Dion as the incompetant leader he is.

I think he should get a medal!!!

Edited October 16, 2008 by TCCK

[PoliticalCitizen]

The guy called an election on his own terms. Huge advantage. He was running against what was undoubtedly the most (publicly perceived) weak candidate in recent Liberal history. Another big advantage. The Liberal platform was not resonating with people in these tough economic times. Wonderful for him. The NDP was gaining momentum under Layton and splitting the left vote. You can't get better than that.

This should've been his moment and that's exactly why he called the election in the first place. So why another minority government?

What CPC supporters fail to understand is that whether legitimate or not, Harper is 'scary' to us social-liberals. I'm not talking about his economic plans because a lot of people who did not vote for him admit to liking his economic plans. So, it's the image of the opposition leader Harper we just can't shake. The guy at the abortion rallies. The guy vowing that gays should not have equal rights for marriage. A lot of us seem to be having a hard time forgetting that Harper.

IMHO, I think Harper's economic background makes for a terrific finance minister because people genuinely do seem to like his economic ideas. But study after study, it's shown that Canadians strongly identify as moderate or liberal when it comes to our social leanings, and the leader of the CPC should be someone whose views at least parallels that to some level.

He had ALL the advantages, and 143 seats is the best he could do. Now imagine when the Liberals get a leader who is an actual threat.

Harper called this election to satisfy his ego's desire to rule without giving a shit about any other parties (or anyone in his party for that matter).

I'm sure he's employing a team of very skilled strategists as Conservatives winning 19 ridings with only 1.1% increase in popular vote is quite remarkable.

But they failed, and wasted our time and money on an unnecessary election. LOWEST IN HISTORY voter turnout speaks for itself.

That proves Harper cannot really win the race even against a dead dog.

Another good indicator is that AS USUAL they got 0 ridings in the big cities.

All this election did is speed up the demise of Dion. Hopefully his replacement will show Harper his rightful place - barking at a Liberal majority from the opposition seat.

[Moonbox]

Harper called this election to satisfy his ego's desire to rule without giving a shit about any other parties (or anyone in his party for that matter).

Harper called the election because it was politically advantageous to do so and because parliament was a joke as it stood.

I'm sure he's employing a team of very skilled strategists as Conservatives winning 19 ridings with only 1.1% increase in popular vote is quite remarkable.

It ensured he stays in as PM for likely another 2 years. Nobody is going to be eager to bring him down now.

But they failed, and wasted our time and money on an unnecessary election. LOWEST IN HISTORY voter turnout speaks for itself.

Who cares? If they didn't vote then they don't get a voice, and neither myself or the conservatives care whatsoever. It's their own stupid fault.

Another good indicator is that AS USUAL they got 0 ridings in the big cities.

A better indication would be that the Liberals got largely shut out everyone EXCEPT the big cities. I wonder which matters more.

All this election did is speed up the demise of Dion. Hopefully his replacement will show Harper his rightful place - barking at a Liberal majority from the opposition seat.

Until the Liberals stop thinking they can 100% ignore the west and expect to do so they'll not be forming a majority anytime soon....or a government for that matter. There are enough people in Ontario who identify with western Canada to continue the trend we've seen in the last 2 elections.

[Bryan]

LOWEST IN HISTORY voter turnout speaks for itself.

I does. It says that the mock-outrage at Harper was a fabrication. If people don't care enough to even vote, they're obviously not opposed to the status quo.

[BC_chick]

I'm sure he's employing a team of very skilled strategists as Conservatives winning 19 ridings with only 1.1% increase in popular vote is quite remarkable.

[...]

All this election did is speed up the demise of Dion. Hopefully his replacement will show Harper his rightful place - barking at a Liberal majority from the opposition seat.

My point exactly. 1.1% increase in support yet 19 more seats = Liberal loss, not Conservative win. For the obvious reason that the only way the CPC gained so many seats with such little increase in support is that much of the Liberal vote went to non-CPC parties.

Harper couldn't cut it in the best of times.

But as I said before, as a liberal, it suits me fine that he stays. That means it can't get worse than this. Unless of course, the next LPC is even worse than Dion...

Edited October 16, 2008 by BC_chick

[PoliticalCitizen]

Harper called the election because it was politically advantageous to do so and because parliament was a joke as it stood.

Of course the parliament is a joke to Harper. Who are they to DARE oppose his will?

It ensured he stays in as PM for likely another 2 years. Nobody is going to be eager to bring him down now.

He could have stayed PM for 2 more years anyway. NOBODY WANTED to bring him down now (out of those who can, anyway).

Who cares? If they didn't vote then they don't get a voice, and neither myself or the conservatives care whatsoever. It's their own stupid fault.

The PM should care (if the concept of CARING is not alien to him). The stupid GG should care (can't say the queen gives a damm).

A better indication would be that the Liberals got largely shut out everyone EXCEPT the big cities. I wonder which matters more.

The only place Liberals are shut out of is Alberta. Just because Praries look big on the map doesn't mean there's more people there than in the big cities.

Until the Liberals stop thinking they can 100% ignore the west and expect to do so they'll not be forming a majority anytime soon....or a government for that matter.

Once Calgary is big enough and attracts diverse cultures it could go Liberal too...

Having said that I agree that Liberals have ignored far more than just the West...

There are enough people in Ontario who identify with western Canada to continue the trend we've seen in the last 2 elections.

I agree with that as well. A lot of immigrants who are better off than the Canadian average are voting Conservative.

[PoliticalCitizen]

I does. It says that the mock-outrage at Harper was a fabrication. If people don't care enough to even vote, they're obviously not opposed to the status quo.

What outrage? Who was opposed? Everyone was OK with a somewhat refreshing Conservative minority after a long Liberal monopoly.

Harper and his strategists (I have to say they're as good as Bush's - maybe the same ) smelled Dion's fear and Liberal blood and jumped for the jugular.

They didn't miss. Just couldn't jump high enough

[PoliticalCitizen]

My point exactly. 1.1% increase in support yet 19 more seats = Liberal loss, not Conservative win. For the obvious reason that the only way the CPC gained so many seats with such little increase in support is that much of the Liberal vote went to non-CPC parties.

Harper couldn't cut it in the best of times.

But as I said before, as a liberal, it suits me fine that he stays. That means it can't get worse than this. Unless of course, the next LPC is even worse than Dion...

I hope it will be Ignatieff.

If you've noticed his post-election speach was already bilingual

[Bryan]

For the obvious reason that the only way the CPC gained so many seats with such little increase in support is that much of the Liberal vote went to non-CPC parties.

Is that really true though?

I know in my riding, the total votes for the top two parties (CPC and LPC) were about 3000 higher than last election. The combined votes for everybody else were nearly 5000 lower.

This is why I say the united opposition was a fabrication. It was a very loud group of people who represented a much smaller minority than they realized. The people actually voting for the government came out to support in even higher numbers, but the protest voters weren't even upset enough to show up.

Even the seemingly small increase in overall support doesn't tell the whole story. When you're already holding certain seats, your support is unlikely to increase much when you hold, especially in places where the support was already very high. It's the increases in the seats you don't hold already that matter. In my riding, 5000 more people voted Conservative than before, and that pushed them well beyond the Liberal incumbent. 5000 additional votes gives you an 11% increase in popular vote for the riding (and gain a new seat), but it's an insignificant number nationally.

Edited October 16, 2008 by Bryan

[BC_chick]

I asked you to provide evidence for your accusations. To my knowledge he hasn't attended pro-life rallies. If he has, it will be easy for you to provide a link. If you can't find one, you should hopefully come to the conclusion that you've boughten into a lie. A lot of the scary, scary is fiction. Paul Martin entire campaign against Harper was fiction. Soldiers on the streets. Wanting the American health care system. Did you believe those too?

I'm not sure how one vows against same sex marriage, but what he vowed to do was not use the not-withstanding clause. He did hold a free vote on the issue as to whether revisit as he promised he'd do, as parliament never voted on the issue. Did he push that agenda? No. There are pro-life groups that are actually rallying against Harper. That's how scary he is.

A lot changes when a guy thinks he has a realistic chance of becoming PM. Remember this:

"Then there is the Progressive Conservative party, the PC party, which won only 20 seats. Now, the term Progressive Conservative will immediately raise suspicions in all of your minds. It should... They were in favour of gay rights officially, officially for abortion on demand. Officially -- what else can I say about them? Officially for the entrenchment of our universal, collectivized, health-care system and multicultural policies in the constitution of the country."

- Conservative leader Stephen Harper, then vice-president of the National Citizens Coalition, in a June 1997 Montreal meeting of the Council for National Policy, a right-wing American think tank.

Harper clearly states that he is against 'official' gay-rights, 'official' abortion on demand (IOW, a woman's right to choose), multi-culturalism, universal healthcare, and he blames the constitution for the things he obviously believes are immoral or bad government.

A moderate-when-convenient isn't a moderate. That's my point, many Canadians, like me, have a hard time forgetting the Harper we saw before he actually became electable.

[Vancouver King]

News flash on the late news:

Dion will announce tomorrow (Thursday the 16th) he is stepping down as leader. Apparently he is going quietly with no night of the long knives needed. Go Iggy go.

[White Doors]

who else of prominence do the tories have that could replace harper, Lawrence Cannon? I don't see any leaders in the tory camp.

Jim Prentice

Peter MacKay

[White Doors]

Once Calgary is big enough and attracts diverse cultures it could go Liberal too...

obviously, you have never been to Calgary

[drewski]

Jim Prentice

Peter MacKay

If the goal is to attract the support of Red Tory's who don't like Harper, I really wonder if MacKay would be the one to pick. The PC's who didn't go over to the Conservatives with MacKay are still pissed at him for going back on his agreement with David Orchard.

[White Doors]

If the goal is to attract the support of Red Tory's who don't like Harper, I really wonder if MacKay would be the one to pick. The PC's who didn't go over to the Conservatives with MacKay are still pissed at him for going back on his agreement with David Orchard.

who cares?

These 'protesters' have absolutely zero political power.

[drewski]

who cares?

These 'protesters' have absolutely zero political power.

I would think the conservatives do if they want the votes of the people who agree with them

[nbguyca]

Why are you so bitter. He did very well considering 80% of the media was painting him as something he's not. I guess you are sucker for the bias mainstream Canadian media. You are probably a pro at playing follow the leader.

She makes a good point. This was Harper's 3rd kick at the can and he still can't get a majority. That has to raise some questions for the Conservatives.

[nbguyca]

bc chick this thread is as close to the dumbest so far in this forum. He gained more seats and exposed Dion as the incompetant leader he is.

I think he should get a medal!!!

Then why no majority?

[Riverwind]

Then why no majority?

Because Quebequers have no interested in voting for a federalist party. Harper bent over backward trying to appeal to Quebequers yet a couple insignicant gaffs chased them back to the BQ. Majorities will not happen in this country as long as the BQ plays the spoiler.

[drewski]

Because Quebequers have no interested in voting for a federalist party. Harper bent over backward trying to appeal to Quebequers yet a couple insignicant gaffs chased them back to the BQ. Majorities will not happen in this country as long as the BQ plays the spoiler.

1993, 1997, 2000?

I think a majority is possible, but the Cosnervatives or Liberals need to do 2 big things to acheive this.

1)They need to move closer to center

2)They need a charismatic leader, which neither Dion or Harper are

[nbguyca]

Because Quebequers have no interested in voting for a federalist party. Harper bent over backward trying to appeal to Quebequers yet a couple insignicant gaffs chased them back to the BQ. Majorities will not happen in this country as long as the BQ plays the spoiler.

Last time I checked, Quebec was still part of the country and they are free to vote however they like, same as everyone else.

I do agree that majorities will be very hard to come buy as long as you have a party like the BQ. But even if you assigned seats by popular vote, he still would not have a majority.

[noahbody]

"Then there is the Progressive Conservative party, the PC party, which won only 20 seats. Now, the term Progressive Conservative will immediately raise suspicions in all of your minds. It should... They were in favour of gay rights officially, officially for abortion on demand. Officially -- what else can I say about them? Officially for the entrenchment of our universal, collectivized, health-care system and multicultural policies in the constitution of the country."

- Conservative leader Stephen Harper, then vice-president of the National Citizens Coalition, in a June 1997 Montreal meeting of the Council for National Policy, a right-wing American think tank.

Harper clearly states that he is against 'official' gay-rights, 'official' abortion on demand (IOW, a woman's right to choose), multi-culturalism, universal healthcare, and he blames the constitution for the things he obviously believes are immoral or bad government.

Actually, he clearly doesn't state his views. He states the official polices of the Progressive Conservative Party, bringing to light the differences between the Canadian and American concepts of conservatism. He appears to be painting the political landscape to a group that would be a bit suspicious to the term Progressive Conservative, since it is an oxymoron.

[Argus]

The guy called an election on his own terms. Huge advantage. He was running against what was undoubtedly the most (publicly perceived) weak candidate in recent Liberal history.

And he hammered him - except in Quebec, where he was running against Gilles Duceppe

What CPC supporters fail to understand is that whether legitimate or not, Harper is 'scary' to us social-liberals.

Bob Rae is scary to us fiscal conservatives. Will you agree he shouldn't be allowed to run for the Liberal party because of those fears?

[Argus]

Isn't that the same as any other party? Do all Liberals think alike? Do all New Democrats?

New Democrats are required to all think alike. Deviate and you're out of the party.