Palin - Biden Debate

[Guest American Woman]

Let's not fool ourselves here. Politicians NEVER answer the question asked to them. :lol: I'll give Palin points for at least admitting it.

I won't give her any points, because I wanted to know what the McCain/Palin exit plan for Iraq is, if there even is one. Maybe there is, and she just doesn't know what it is. Biden, on the other hand, clearly laid out the Obama/Biden plan. In other words, he answered the question asked of them.

Edited October 3, 2008 by American Woman

[kimmy]

I went to CNN instead of a Michael Moore type site because I was truly interested in what the mainstream reaction was.

What makes you think you're getting a real "mainstream" reaction from an online poll?

NHL fans once banded together to get Rory Fitzpatrick voted into the All-Star game through online voting. (For those who don't follow hockey, Rory Fitzpatrick is not exactly considered all-star material.)

Gay activists once banded together to get Matthew Sheppard (murdered in a gay-bashing attack) voted man of the year on the Time magazine online poll. While it's an extremely tragic story, I am skeptical whether the view that it made him Man of the Year was reflective of mainstream opinion.

American Idol voters banded together to keep that goof with the bad haircut on the show far longer than he deserved.

Listeners of a Winnipeg radio station voted en-mass to get their favorite DJ voted into the top 10 in the CBC's "Greatest Canadian" poll. The DJ in question apparently hosts wet T-shirt contests at a local strip club, which undoubtedly puts him among Winnipeg's cultural elite, but once again this phenomenon leads one to doubt the results of online polling.

In reference to CNN in particular, I checked out their online poll on the night of Palin's speech at the RNC. The speech was almost universally well reviewed by everyone from CNN's panel of experts to Joe Biden himself, and the short-lived bounce in Palin's popularity following the speech testifies to its effectiveness. Yet the CNN online poll graded it as an "F". I suppose one could be of the belief that the analysts were just wrong and the speech was actually terrible, but I think it's more likely that the "F" grade was the result of the same kind of activity that made Rory Fitzpatrick an all-star.

-k

[Montreal Blogger]

I think Palin wooped his butt. After Katie Couric's interview everybody was waiting for disaster that would have ended McCain's candidacy. I think she was charismatic, real and on the point. Bidden looked too political, too phony and confused regular americans with all his senate language.

Edited October 3, 2008 by Montreal Blogger

[Shady]

Wow, Sarah was amazing tonight!

I loved that she took it to Biden. And had him defend his own criticisms of Obama. "You warned him" she said. Amazing.

I loved it that she wouldn't necessarily accept the premise of a question, and stated that she'd answer the question as she sees it, and not necessarily the way Gwen, or Joe might want. Even more amazing. And something I haven't seen said in a debate ever.

I enjoyed the debate so much that I'm probably gonna watch it again. Poor Joe, he really had no idea what was coming.

[jdobbin]

I enjoyed the debate so much that I'm probably gonna watch it again.

You have a second bag of cheesies?

[Shady]

You have a second bag of cheesies?

Touche. No, I don't have a second bag of cheesies. However, I still have plenty of time to obtain some.

[RB]

I think Palin wooped his butt. After Katie Couric's interview everybody was waiting for disaster that would have ended McCain's candidacy. I think she was charismatic, real and on the point. Bidden looked too political, too phony and confused regular americans with all his senate language.

I am liken to Biden - at times he sounded like Bill Clinton - he came across as intelligent

Palin will always be a winner in this race whatever the outcome.

[Shady]

I am liken to Biden - at times he sounded like Bill Clinton - he came across as intelligent

I also happen to like Joe Biden quite a bit, even though I don't agree with him much politically. He seems like a good person, and also a genuine one, which can't be said about many politicians.

[August1991]

New York Times:

Palin and Biden Are Cordial but Pointed

IOW, Palin wins.

Cordial but pointed? WTF? Where do they get these headlines/expressions?

WASHINGTON — With a straight-to-the-camera appeal to "Joe six-pack, hockey moms," a confident Sarah Palin sought to revive the flagging Republican campaign last night, in the first and last vice-president's debate.

Ms. Palin employed a strategy of repeatedly ignoring the questions from moderator Gwen Ifill, instead promoting the policies of her running mate, Republican presidential nominee John McCain, and attacking Democratic nominee Barack Obama.

"I may not answer the questions that either the moderator or you want to hear," she told her opponent, Democratic vice-presidential candidate Joe Biden, "but I'm gonna talk straight to the American people."

Ms. Palin appeared well prepared throughout the 90-minute debate, a sharp contrast to her stumbling performances in recent television interviews.

G&M - Ibbitson

This is very, very bad reporting. As a reader, I just want the facts. Unless of course, the G&M is seeking fanboys.

If the G&M is seeking fanboys, I can accept such a report. But if that's the case, the G&M is choosing a risky consumer model.

Fanboys are fickle, and as a consumer model - they are typical of desperation.

Edited October 3, 2008 by August1991

[Liam]

Partisanship aside, I think each side can take away from last night what it wanted: Palin was better than she appeared in interviews, Biden showed that he has the discipline to control himself.

But let's face the reality of the situation: the bar Palin had to get over was about an eighth of an inch off the ground. She merely had to show up and speak in complete sentences on topics remotely related to Gwen Ifill's questions to gain a "win" (or, at least to slow down the lagging confidence levels of many conservatives/McCain supporters). I don't think Palin's performance won over any undecided voters, nor did it reverse the trend of the election and move the momentum back to McCain's favor. If anything, her show merely arrested the downward trend among her own supporters.

I think Palin's performance last night was a ninety minute summary of her arc over the past month: fresh and new and folksy and warm and likeable at first, followed by a period of obvious coaching and evident cram sessions, ending with a general sense that, while likeable, she is not ready.

In terms of substance, Biden won and post-debate polls show that he was the winner by a wide margin (CNN interviews with independent voters showed a 15 point gap in his favor, 51-36). He seemed off message in the first half of the debate, but continued in a very slow and steady manner. He clearly won the foreign affairs section, the second half.

Overall, the debate won't change the dynamic of the race. It could have ended McCain's campaign had Palin been a disaster, but she wasn't.

[moderateamericain]

Yeah I watched the VP debates...Philly beat Milwaukee 5-2....

You want an exit strategy for Iraq. Kill all the terrorist.

[Guest American Woman]

I think Palin's performance last night was a ninety minute summary of her arc over the past month: fresh and new and folksy and warm and likeable at first, followed by a period of obvious coaching and evident cram sessions, ending with a general sense that, while likeable, she is not ready.

Am I the only one who doesn't find her "likable?" She doesn't strike me as sincere as much as she strikes me as putting on a "folksy" act. In fact, I thought there was a bit of "folksy" overkill in the debate last night.

As for her answers, coaching and cramming were apparent in her responses. The debate was a much better forum for her than a one-on-one interview since she could say what she wanted/rehearsed without anyone to rebut her. And that's really what happened. To me it came across as just another rehearsed, written speech. And by "written," I mean told by others what to say.

[Drea]

I do have to say -- I wish I had a dollar for every time Palin said "maverick."

or the word "also".

Goshdarnit she's got "regular people" slang down pat. lol

Biden nailed it regarding family -- I love it that he didn't let her get away with "poor me I have children -- one in Iraq and even a disabled one! -- I'm a MOM!"

and did anyone else think it really stunned to bring the baby? Leave him at home -- he's a baby for goshdarnsakes!

[Liam]

Am I the only one who doesn't find her "likable?" She doesn't strike me as sincere as much as she strikes me as putting on a "folksy" act. In fact, I thought there was a bit of "folksy" overkill in the debate last night.

As for her answers, coaching and cramming were apparent in her responses. The debate was a much better forum for her than a one-on-one interview since she could say what she wanted/rehearsed without anyone to rebut her. And that's really what happened. To me it came across as just another rehearsed, written speech. And by "written," I mean told by others what to say.

It's odd, I find a bit of her folksiness genuine and part of it creates an impression that she's insincere. The continuous winks and "you betcha(s)" reminds me too much of George W. Bush's smirks and nods, like a nervous tic someone falls back on when she or he is nervously trying to reassure someone he's both confident and "just one of them".

[moderateamericain]

All style points aside. As to the actual topic points and the reason I dont watch those damn things.

Sort through the bullshit people. Sort through the bullshit.

[bush_cheney2004]

It's odd, I find a bit of her folksiness genuine and part of it creates an impression that she's insincere. The continuous winks and "you betcha(s)" reminds me too much of George W. Bush's smirks and nods, like a nervous tic someone falls back on when she or he is nervously trying to reassure someone he's both confident and "just one of them".

Yes, it is different from Biden's Botoxed confidence that stems from nearly 30 years as a Senate insider and residence in the back pocket of major banks and credit card companies incorporated in Delaware. Americans sure need lots more of that.

[GostHacked]

News schmews....it's still the same unscientific method that kimmy correctly pointed out as worthless. Hell, Drudge got thousands more "hits" than CNN for the poll.....Ha!

Actually Online polls are a pretty good gauge to go by. Each IP address is recorded for the polls, you could only make one vote per IP address. Now this does not take into account that polls can be skewered any way you want. Also there is the possibility of using a proxy and voting by other peoples IP addresses to favour the vote one way or another. Kind of like how the Deibold electronic voting machines can be hacked.

Before you say it is unhackable, it is all 1's and 0's. They can be manipulated

American Woman

Am I the only one who doesn't find her "likable?" She doesn't strike me as sincere as much as she strikes me as putting on a "folksy" act. In fact, I thought there was a bit of "folksy" overkill in the debate last night.

She is as fake as the botox Bush_Cheney says Biden uses. She is all filler to make things look good, but when it comes down to it, there is no substance at all in her. Fake as fake can be.

Liam

But let's face the reality of the situation: the bar Palin had to get over was about an eighth of an inch off the ground. She merely had to show up and speak in complete sentences on topics remotely related to Gwen Ifill's questions to gain a "win" (or, at least to slow down the lagging confidence levels of many conservatives/McCain supporters). I don't think Palin's performance won over any undecided voters, nor did it reverse the trend of the election and move the momentum back to McCain's favor. If anything, her show merely arrested the downward trend among her own supporters.

A pretty face can make intelligent people very stupid, very fast.

[bush_cheney2004]

Actually Online polls are a pretty good gauge to go by. Each IP address is recorded for the polls, you could only make one vote per IP address. Now this does not take into account that polls can be skewered any way you want. Also there is the possibility of using a proxy and voting by other peoples IP addresses to favour the vote one way or another. Kind of like how the Deibold electronic voting machines can be hacked.

In other words...they are hardly reliable indicators at all....just ask John Kerry.

Before you say it is unhackable, it is all 1's and 0's. They can be manipulated

You're trying too hard to sit on the fence...."hacking" an online poll is child's play with the scripting tools that I get paid to use every day.

A pretty face can make intelligent people very stupid, very fast.

Yep...see John Edwards.

[Shady]

or the word "also".

Goshdarnit she's got "regular people" slang down pat. lol

She has that "slang" down, because that's who she is, it's not fake, as much as you people would like to hope. And yes, she used the term Maverick quite a bit, almost as much as Biden used Scranton. We get it Joe, you're originally from Pennsylvania.

And yes, you people are in a small minority of those who don't find her likable. Many may disagree with her views on issues, but it's hard to not find her a likable person. Unless of course you're the ultra-partisan type, because no conservative will ever be likable.

Now on to these ridiculous online polls people are posting. One can "win" a debate, but lose on the politics of it. For example, the debate between Gore and Bush in 2000, where Gore walked over to Bush, and Bush nodded his head towards Gore during his answer. Everyone noted that Gore easily won the debate, however, the outcome was vastly different when translated to actual political reality. The most relevant information I found in the CNN poll, was that Palin beat Biden by 20 points in likability. That always translates well in political terms, definitely better then technically winning a debate on points.

[BC_chick]

IMO, Palin was the typical soccer-mom - loud, patronising, and cheering even though her team is losing. I felt embarrassed for her the couple of times during foreign policy when she was frantically looking at her notes for country leaders' name but gave up with an awkward chuckle.

Having said that, she didn't suck as bad as she thought she would. I guess she set the bar so low with that Katie Couric interview, anything thereafter was bound to look like she kind of maybe somehow one day may belong in politics.

As for Biden, I didn't like how he tried to dodge around the SSM question. We get it, America is a conservative country and politicians have to do what they have to do to get elected, but I wish he hadn't weasled around it and just stated his convictions the first time around. Other than that, he was calm, articulate, and knew exactly what he was doing.

Sadly though, in spite of the rhetoric, I didn't really see a difference between the two candidates' beliefs other than energy policy and abortion. Even the "sitting down with rogue nations" debate turned to a softening of both their positions.

So the substance is more or less the same, it's the delivery that's different.... it's pretty much a popularity contest from here.

Edited October 3, 2008 by BC_chick

[Shady]

Huge early ratings for Palin-Biden debate

Thursday's debate between Alaska governor Sarah Palin and Delaware senator Joe Biden proved prognosticators correct and scored extremely high viewership.

Last night's debate totaled a 45.0 overnight meter-market household rating, according to Nielsen

That's 42% higher than Friday's presidential debate between John McCain and Barack Obama

Link

Sarah destroyed the McCain/Obama debate on friday.

[Guest American Woman]

It's odd, I find a bit of her folksiness genuine and part of it creates an impression that she's insincere. The continuous winks and "you betcha(s)" reminds me too much of George W. Bush's smirks and nods, like a nervous tic someone falls back on when she or he is nervously trying to reassure someone he's both confident and "just one of them".

I don't find her folksiness genuine at all; maybe because it was forced to nauseating extremes. I'm small town too, I've even been to Wassilla, and I've just never, ever run into that many winks or that many "you betcha(s)." I think it gave her the impression that she's insincere too, but then I think it went beyond being "the impression" that she was-- I think she was. I honestly think she tried too hard to come across as 'just one of the Moms' and was really glad when Biden responded by stressing his role as a father and how meaningful that was. This idea that only a "mom" knows what it's like to be a parent is bull crap. She worked just like so many dad's do.

But if her political career doesn't work out, I'm sure she could find work if they ever make a sequel to "Fargo."

[bush_cheney2004]

....But if her political career doesn't work out, I'm sure she could find work if they ever make a sequel to "Fargo."

Gov. Palin's "political career" has already worked out splendidly regardless of what happens in the election.

[Oleg Bach]

Gov. Palin's "political career" has already worked out splendidly regardless of what happens in the election.

You have got that right - a rapid move from the back waters of Alaska...right up to a potential vice president - and possibly a president...of old man McCain is taken off life support...well maybe not - look at Cheney - tick tick goes the pace maker....wonder what it's like being owned by the medical profession? Palin is at the top of the heap. Here career is secure...unless she farts a wet on in a white dress....

[Guest American Woman]

Gov. Palin's "political career" has already worked out splendidly regardless of what happens in the election.

If you say so. I guess you must have some crystal-ball ability to see into the future that I don't possess. But then again, your definition of a "successful" political career requires nothing more than getting elected.