Harper's Olympic absence

[jdobbin]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...ame=beijing2008

A visit from Foreign Affairs Minister David Emerson to Beijing is doing little to quell calls for Prime Minister Stephen Harper to join other world leaders attending the 2008 Olympic Summer Games.

About 80 other world leaders have attended the Games, and Harper's absence has not gone unnoticed in China, a former Canadian ambassador to China told CTV News.

"I think they care about the Canadian relationship," Howard Balloch said of the Chinese government. "Canada has had a very important relationship with China over a very long period of time."

The local media in China have even referred to a "Canadian boycott" of the Games, despite the presence of Emerson and Helena Guergis, secretary of state for sport.

Other prime minister's have missed previous games but given Harper's previous stand on China, the Chinese media is labelling the absence as a boycott.

I wonder if Harper will feel he has to go for the closing ceremonies. He probably didn't care when the Opposition asked him why he wasn't going but if it is becoming a major issue in China, it could be a problem.

Bush has had it both ways. He went to the game and criticized China's human rights.

[bush_cheney2004]

Bush has had it both ways. He went to the game and criticized China's human rights.

Bush has personal interest as well as political reasons for going. He also competes in a much higher weight class than PM Harper.

[blueblood]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...ame=beijing2008

Other prime minister's have missed previous games but given Harper's previous stand on China, the Chinese media is labelling the absence as a boycott.

I wonder if Harper will feel he has to go for the closing ceremonies. He probably didn't care when the Opposition asked him why he wasn't going but if it is becoming a major issue in China, it could be a problem.

Bush has had it both ways. He went to the game and criticized China's human rights.

Harper's a big boy he can do what he wants.

We all know Chretien's stand on the U.S. gov't. I forget if Chretien went to Salt lake or not. But other games were missed, so what?

Who cares what the Chinese say, if they want to act like that they can face the consequenses.

Will Harper care if the Chinese leadership doesn't show up in Vancouver, probably not.

There is another country next door that Canada can invest in if the Chinese don't play nice.

[jdobbin]

We all know Chretien's stand on the U.S. gov't. I forget if Chretien went to Salt lake or not. But other games were missed, so what?

I know. I mentioned other games were missed.

Who cares what the Chinese say, if they want to act like that they can face the consequenses.

What would those be?

Will Harper care if the Chinese leadership doesn't show up in Vancouver, probably not.

There is another country next door that Canada can invest in if the Chinese don't play nice.

I'm just wondering if Harper will continue to stay away from China. Do you think he will?

[August1991]

As a student, or before getting involved in politics, Harper never travelled. I'm impressed with Harper's deft hand in foreign affairs (eg. China) and in Quebec.

I reckon that Harper has a clear understanding of who he is, and then he learned a foreign language.

[jdobbin]

As a student, or before getting involved in politics, Harper never travelled. I'm impressed with Harper's deft hand in foreign affairs (eg. China) and in Quebec.

So you understand his plan with Canada's second largest trading partner?

Even Emerson says this:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...eijing2008/home

Canada's Foreign Affairs Minister said it would be "very, very nice" for the Prime Minister to visit China, even as other Conservatives defended Stephen Harper's handling of the country's relations with the Asian power.

Edited August 12, 2008 by jdobbin

[madmax]

Bush has personal interest as well as political reasons for going. He also competes in a much higher weight class than PM Harper.

Bush was hanging out with the womans Beach Volley Ball team.

[Argus]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...ame=beijing2008

Other prime minister's have missed previous games but given Harper's previous stand on China, the Chinese media is labelling the absence as a boycott.

I wonder if Harper will feel he has to go for the closing ceremonies. He probably didn't care when the Opposition asked him why he wasn't going but if it is becoming a major issue in China, it could be a problem.

Bush has had it both ways. He went to the game and criticized China's human rights.

Why, exactly, do you feel Harper should be under some kind of obligation to go to China and bob his head before the Chinese? China has a fairly dreadful authoritatian government, and the Olympics are a joke, with corrupt judging and obesssed, full-time, drugged out athletes. Nor is Canada's presence or abscence important enough to be a "major issue" in China. Lots of world leaders aren't there.

[Argus]

So you understand his plan with Canada's second largest trading partner?

Even Emerson says this:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...eijing2008/home

Second in terms of how much cheap crap they ship us, maybe. Nowhere near that in terms of importance to Canada.

As for the view that "politics have no place at the olympics" that's a joke. Politics are almost the entire reason the Olympics are held. Certainly politics are the only reason they're in China.

Edited August 12, 2008 by Argus

[Riverwind]

Why, exactly, do you feel Harper should be under some kind of obligation to go to China and bob his head before the Chinese? China has a fairly dreadful authoritatian government, and the Olympics are a joke, with corrupt judging and obesssed, full-time, drugged out athletes. Nor is Canada's presence or abscence important enough to be a "major issue" in China. Lots of world leaders aren't there.

I agree with the sentiment but from a pragmatic point of view many Canadian companies depend on favours dispensed by the "dreadful authoritatian government" so it seems silly to annoy them needlessly. For example, Canada still is not on the "approved destination list" for Chinese travellers. OTOH. Giving in to bullies just makes them demand more so standing up to them might not be such a bad thing.

[jdobbin]

Why, exactly, do you feel Harper should be under some kind of obligation to go to China and bob his head before the Chinese? China has a fairly dreadful authoritatian government, and the Olympics are a joke, with corrupt judging and obesssed, full-time, drugged out athletes. Nor is Canada's presence or abscence important enough to be a "major issue" in China. Lots of world leaders aren't there.

I don't think he has to go to the Olympics although I believe the Chinese are singling out Canada as boycotting China.

Harper will have to decide what sort of relation he wants with China despite his misgivings about it. The Chinese are starting to realize how hostile the Tory government is towards their regime and it is starting to become an issue in key bilateral relationships.

[jdobbin]

Second in terms of how much cheap crap they ship us, maybe. Nowhere near that in terms of importance to Canada.

And the stuff we are sending them in increasing amounts.

As for the view that "politics have no place at the olympics" that's a joke. Politics are almost the entire reason the Olympics are held. Certainly politics are the only reason they're in China.

I never said there was no place for politics at the Olympics.

I think I have pointed out that since Harper was elected in 2006, he has had a hostile relationship with China. The Chinese are now singling out Canada for attention and indicating Harper is boycotting China.

Even Emerson is now aware that perception in China might be problematic.

[jdobbin]

Giving in to bullies just makes them demand more so standing up to them might not be such a bad thing.

To what end? What does Harper want from China and does he think the lack of high level interaction will achieve it?

I don't think I have heard his China strategy explained. The Chinese now think it is a boycott. Is it?

Edited August 12, 2008 by jdobbin

[Smallc]

And the stuff we are sending them in increasing amounts.

Yes, and most of those things that they get from us can't come from many other places, at least not in those large numbers and with such high quality. I'm glad the PM is holding firm on his stance. There is no reason that he should have to suck up to China.

[eyeball]

Bush has had it both ways. He went to the game and criticized China's human rights.

The pot called the kettle black. If this makes the kettle feel smug then so be it.

Good on Harper I say, and I don't say that often.

[jdobbin]

Yes, and most of those things that they get from us can't come from many other places, at least not in those large numbers and with such high quality. I'm glad the PM is holding firm on his stance. There is no reason that he should have to suck up to China.

What is his stance?

[Wild Bill]

To what end? What does Harper want from China and does he think the lack of high level interaction will achieve it?

I don't think I have heard his China strategy explained. The Chinese now think it is a boycott. Is it?

Might be a good thing if it was a boycott!

Sometime last year Harper was being cautioned while visiting China about provoking them about human rights for fear of affecting trade. He said something to the effect that since the trade was so drastically skewed in China's favour perhaps that shouldn't be a worry.

I think he has a good point. Although it's true that some individual Canadian businesses are making a great deal of money it would seem that as a nation we have a huge level of deficit in our trade with China, by a quantum level.

The question then becomes, if this is true then when some Canadian talking heads are saying don't provoke China you have to wonder who's side they're on...

[jdobbin]

Might be a good thing if it was a boycott!

And Harper introducing trade sanctions as well?

What do you think his list of demands should be?

[Wild Bill]

And Harper introducing trade sanctions as well?

What do you think his list of demands should be?

Fair trade! First off, I'd demand the Chinese get serious about knockoffs and software/DVD/media piracy. I would demand that if our farmers are banned from a particular chemical or spray then any Chinese agricultural products that DID use such sprays be banned from entry.

I would demand "pollution tariffs". Not just simply on carbon. If it costs our steel makers $50 per tonne in scrubbers and things to clean up their emissions then if Chinese steelmakers are not doing the same then they should pay that $50/ton as a tariff.

I would add up each and every "green" or labour law extra cost on Canadian business and see it applied to all imports. Such extra costs were supposed to keep us safer and healthier, not give foreign competition an unfair advantage.

Give me a while and I could come up with more but one that jumps to mind is an audit of the Canadian Wheat Board. There are dark murmurings around that they actually end up keeping the selling price LOWER to the benefit of countries like China! I'd like to know if there's any truth to that. They practice ruthless capitalism towards us with their products. We should deal with them in the same fashion.

Also, if China has any import restrictions on our products at all that are designed to preserve an advantage for their domestic industry then we should immediately impose identical restrictions on their products being shipped to us.

I believe in Fair Trade but I don't believe that "rigged" trade is free.

[eyeball]

And Harper introducing trade sanctions as well?

What do you think his list of demands should be?

I'd only demand one thing from Jintao myself, listen to China's people's lists of demands or else.

[HisSelf]

Here's a link to a list published by the Vancouver Sun...

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/st...58-224c3a4010b5

The games are far from over. My take is that Harper might be playing it safe and has left his options open. Unfortunately, this will not cut it.

The big event was the opening and he wasn't there. I personally feel that was a mistake, but I do not like Mr. Harper, so take it for what you will.

Canada has always had very good relations with Beijing, and that has paid great benefits. It has made us a player in the China theatre. Mr. Harper made a serious tactical error by not being there for the opening.

Lest we all get excited about Tibet, it is important to note that Tibet applied for nationhood to the UN and was denied. This is a blot on many copy books.

I certainly am in favour of greater human rights in China and I think that will happen. I was watching some TV coverage (sorry can't rememeber the network) of a Chinese media commentator who said that the Olympics is a new era for press freedom in CHina. They will not be able to put the tooth paste back in the tube.

It is important to understand that, in the world of International diplomacy, the players are not always the guys on the ice.

But Mister Harper, with his limited experience, is not likely to have that sort of horizon.

Edited August 12, 2008 by HisSelf

[Keepitsimple]

So you understand his plan with Canada's second largest trading partner?

Even Emerson says this:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...eijing2008/home

The context of Emerson's comments were related to Harper visiting China at some point in the future.....not to visit during the Olympics.

[jdobbin]

The context of Emerson's comments were related to Harper visiting China at some point in the future.....not to visit during the Olympics.

I've seen no indication that Harper intends to visit China ever. Have you heard something?

[jdobbin]

Fair trade! First off, I'd demand the Chinese get serious about knockoffs and software/DVD/media piracy. I would demand that if our farmers are banned from a particular chemical or spray then any Chinese agricultural products that DID use such sprays be banned from entry.

I would demand "pollution tariffs". Not just simply on carbon. If it costs our steel makers $50 per tonne in scrubbers and things to clean up their emissions then if Chinese steelmakers are not doing the same then they should pay that $50/ton as a tariff.

I would add up each and every "green" or labour law extra cost on Canadian business and see it applied to all imports. Such extra costs were supposed to keep us safer and healthier, not give foreign competition an unfair advantage.

Give me a while and I could come up with more but one that jumps to mind is an audit of the Canadian Wheat Board. There are dark murmurings around that they actually end up keeping the selling price LOWER to the benefit of countries like China! I'd like to know if there's any truth to that. They practice ruthless capitalism towards us with their products. We should deal with them in the same fashion.

Also, if China has any import restrictions on our products at all that are designed to preserve an advantage for their domestic industry then we should immediately impose identical restrictions on their products being shipped to us.

I believe in Fair Trade but I don't believe that "rigged" trade is free.

So Harper should boycott talks until all these things happen?

By the way, there is an audit of the Wheat Board every year.

Edited August 12, 2008 by jdobbin

[Topaz]

Can you blame Harper for not going? Just look at that environment, it would be hard to breathe, maybe your family didn't want to go, or maybe Harper thought he didn't want to be seen with Bush or with an election coming its best to attend to business here.