Harper's Olympic absence

[bush_cheney2004]

Can you blame Harper for not going? Just look at that environment, it would be hard to breathe, maybe your family didn't want to go, or maybe Harper thought he didn't want to be seen with Bush or with an election coming its best to attend to business here.

Yea.....it's kinda like living downwind from Ontario's Nanticoke Power Plant! (Cough cough)

I think PM Harper should have gone, but he has his reasons for skipping out.

[Guest American Woman]

It seems as if everyone in this thread is speculating as to why Harper didn't go. Isn't it kind of strange that no one knows? Why hasn't it been addressed? Seems to me if it were in protest, he would be making that known. What good is a protest is no one knows you are protesting? Personally, I find it odd that he didn't go and I'm glad that Bush did. This is a major event-- the first time the Olympics are being held in China-- and it's a huge deal to the Chinese. For that reason, I don't think it's comparable to other missed games.

[jdobbin]

It seems as if everyone in this thread is speculating as to why Harper didn't go. Isn't it kind of strange that no one knows? Why hasn't it been addressed? Seems to me if it were in protest, he would be making that known. What good is a protest is no one knows you are protesting? Personally, I find it odd that he didn't go and I'm glad that Bush did. This is a major event-- the first time the Olympics are being held in China-- and it's a huge deal to the Chinese. For that reason, I don't think it's comparable to other missed games.

It certainly has Harper cabinet ministers going to great pains to explain to the Chinese why Harper chose not to go. The fact that the Chinese are categorizing it as a boycott is problematic.

[blueblood]

I know. I mentioned other games were missed.

What would those be?

I'm just wondering if Harper will continue to stay away from China. Do you think he will?

In this case the consequences were Harper snubbing the Chinese olympic games. Harper will go to china when he wants.

[jdobbin]

In this case the consequences were Harper snubbing the Chinese olympic games. Harper will go to china when he wants.

When do you think that is? He hasn't indicated any interest in bilateral talks on their turf so far.

Edited August 12, 2008 by jdobbin

[blueblood]

Fair trade! First off, I'd demand the Chinese get serious about knockoffs and software/DVD/media piracy. I would demand that if our farmers are banned from a particular chemical or spray then any Chinese agricultural products that DID use such sprays be banned from entry.

I would demand "pollution tariffs". Not just simply on carbon. If it costs our steel makers $50 per tonne in scrubbers and things to clean up their emissions then if Chinese steelmakers are not doing the same then they should pay that $50/ton as a tariff.

I would add up each and every "green" or labour law extra cost on Canadian business and see it applied to all imports. Such extra costs were supposed to keep us safer and healthier, not give foreign competition an unfair advantage.

Give me a while and I could come up with more but one that jumps to mind is an audit of the Canadian Wheat Board. There are dark murmurings around that they actually end up keeping the selling price LOWER to the benefit of countries like China! I'd like to know if there's any truth to that. They practice ruthless capitalism towards us with their products. We should deal with them in the same fashion.

Also, if China has any import restrictions on our products at all that are designed to preserve an advantage for their domestic industry then we should immediately impose identical restrictions on their products being shipped to us.

I believe in Fair Trade but I don't believe that "rigged" trade is free.

Don't worry there is a billion person country right next door. We can get our cheap goods manufactured there.

[capricorn]

I certainly am in favour of greater human rights in China and I think that will happen.

It will happen eventually. But it will not come because of outward pressure or Harper wagging his finger at China. It will come from the Chinese population who will one day say "enough, we want what westernized countries have".

I was watching some TV coverage (sorry can't rememeber the network) of a Chinese media commentator who said that the Olympics is a new era for press freedom in CHina. They will not be able to put the tooth paste back in the tube.

In this respect, China being awarded the Olympics will pay dividends for the Chinese people.

It is important to understand that, in the world of International diplomacy, the players are not always the guys on the ice.

But Mister Harper, with his limited experience, is not likely to have that sort of horizon.

Yes, back room diplomacy can deliver results. Yet, you overestimate Canada's weight on the world stage, up front and in the back rooms. As for China, its ruling party couldn't care less what Canada thinks about their country.

[Guest American Woman]

It certainly has Harper cabinet ministers going to great pains to explain to the Chinese why Harper chose not to go. The fact that the Chinese are categorizing it as a boycott is problematic.

What is their explanation? I haven't been able to find it anywhere and I'm really interested in his reasons for not attending. I agree with you that the Chinese viewing it as a boycott is problematic and I find it odd that Harper himself isn't saying anything about it.

[capricorn]

Seems to me if it were in protest, he would be making that known. What good is a protest is no one knows you are protesting?

The first clue that it is not a protest is that our Foreign Affairs minister attended, obviously with Harper's blessing. I have no doubt that Emerson will be a fine Canadian representative at the games.

Personally, I am not concerned that Harper did not attend and I don't see a subliminal reason for his decision. By this time next year will anybody care?

[Guest American Woman]

By this time next year will anybody care?

I think the Chinese will.

[jdobbin]

What is their explanation? I haven't been able to find it anywhere and I'm really interested in his reasons for not attending. I agree with you that the Chinese viewing it as a boycott is problematic and I find it odd that Harper himself isn't saying anything about it.

Foreign minister Emerson was saying that Harper had business at home. He was left scrambling at one point and that it when he said it would be nice for Harper to visit China at some point. It doesn't seem likely before the election though.

[bush_cheney2004]

I think the Chinese will.

I think they will too....the Chinese desperately seek international respect at many levels. They are driven by the spectre of their recent past with backward steps.

"...You don't understand. I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender. I coulda been somebody....."

[jdobbin]

I think the Chinese will.

I think you have that right. It is a matter of face now and China will remember.

[capricorn]

It is a matter of face now and China will remember.

That sounds ominous. What do you think China will do to us in retaliation? Maybe China won't send a Communist Party member to the 2010 Winter Olympics. Maybe that will even things out.

[jdobbin]

That sounds ominous. What do you think China will do to us in retaliation? Maybe China won't send a Communist Party member to the 2010 Winter Olympics. Maybe that will even things out.

There are plenty of things China can do in a bilateral relationship that can hurt Canada. They have already been doing that for the last two years by withholding most favoured nation status.

[capricorn]

There are plenty of things China can do in a bilateral relationship that can hurt Canada. They have already been doing that for the last two years by withholding most favoured nation status.

Are you referring to the WTO definition of most favoured nation status?

As for our relations with China, Irwin Cotler fanned the flames at a recent press conference.

"What we are witnessing today … is a persistent and pervasive assault on human rights in China," Cotler said.

"A betrayal of the Olympic Charter, the Olympic Games and China's pledge to respect both."

Among the concerns outlined in the Cotler report are the treatment of Tibetans, limits on freedom of expression and inaction in dealing with the humanitarian crisis in Darfur, where 200,000 people have died since 2003.

Despite promises from the country's Communist regime to improve its human rights record when the Games were awarded to China in 2001, abuses of human rights have escalated, said Cotler.

---

Back in Ottawa, Cotler called for Canada to review its trade relations with China.

"We cannot proceed in terms of business as usual," he said, but did not specify what actions a Liberal government would take.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/08/07/cotler-report.html

From the same linked article.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper will not be attending the opening ceremonies, but has said that his decision to forgo the Games should not be considered a boycott.

Emerson said he's not heard any murmurs of disapproval from Chinese officials that Harper isn't attending the Games.

"They've been very very happy with the relationship and the plans that we have to engage much more deeply," he said.

Emerson said that Canada-China relations are in a period of renewal, following a greater push at the country to improve its democratic record.

Early on in his mandate, Harper poked China in the eye over human rights infractions and other issues. China's feathers were understandably ruffled given its massive and sensitive ego. Was it a mistake for Harper to be so vocal in his disapproval? Perhaps. So if Harper had gone to China, he would have been expected to poke at China's poor human rights record once again. Perhaps it was a better call to let Emerson and his delegation go to China and restrict exchanges to trade related business.

[jdobbin]

Are you referring to the WTO definition of most favoured nation status?

Nope. They use that same term for allowing Chinese people to more easily visit other countries.

As for our relations with China, Irwin Cotler fanned the flames at a recent press conference.

I have no problems with Cotler or Harper speaking on the issue of human rights in China.

Early on in his mandate, Harper poked China in the eye over human rights infractions and other issues. China's feathers were understandably ruffled given its massive and sensitive ego. Was it a mistake for Harper to be so vocal in his disapproval? Perhaps. So if Harper had gone to China, he would have been expected to poke at China's poor human rights record once again. Perhaps it was a better call to let Emerson and his delegation go to China and restrict exchanges to trade related business.

And China has indicated that for that to happen, they want high level talks.

Harper seems determined to not do that for some reason.

Edited August 13, 2008 by jdobbin

[Guest American Woman]

That sounds ominous. What do you think China will do to us in retaliation? Maybe China won't send a Communist Party member to the 2010 Winter Olympics. Maybe that will even things out.

You're thinking is pretty narrow if you're only thinking 2010 and Olympics. China is a country that should not be so easily dismissed.

Edited August 13, 2008 by American Woman

[noahbody]

The fact is that Canada isn't boycotting the Olympics. Out athletes are there. Our government is there.

If the Chinese are insecure we could point out that Canadian PMs don't always attend the Olympics or give them footage so they can digitally place him in the crowd. Maybe the footage could be of him sucking on his inhaler for his asthma so it looks authentic.

[Topaz]

I think the reason for Harper is the Human Rights issue, so he's not going as a protest. BUT the Cons want to trade just like every country around the world wants to. There's foreign companies in China who are adding to their pollution problems and yet these same countries criticizes China's pollution.

[M.Dancer]

There's foreign companies in China who are adding to their pollution problems and yet these same countries criticizes China's pollution.

Name names. Apple, Orange? Grapefruit, Grape?

Are you aware that companies, and same countries doesn't match?

Time for a new small appliance.

[jdobbin]

The fact is that Canada isn't boycotting the Olympics. Out athletes are there. Our government is there.

If the Chinese are insecure we could point out that Canadian PMs don't always attend the Olympics or give them footage so they can digitally place him in the crowd. Maybe the footage could be of him sucking on his inhaler for his asthma so it looks authentic.

And yet the Chinese are taking this as a swipe against them.

[CANADIEN]

I personnally don't care if a dictatorial regime (talking about the Chinese Government) feels offended that our PM didn't show up.

That being said, the next Olympics are in 2010 in Vancouver. It would make sens for Harper to be in Beijing wooing and smoozing the IOC and foreign press and officials.

[eyeball]

BEIJING -- B.C. Premier Gordon Campbell vows the Vancouver the world sees during the 2010 Games won't be plagued by homelessness, addiction and poverty.

Campbell appears to be bearing at least some of the the brunt of Chinese displeasure. B.C.'s Campbell asked about 2010 troubles

I remember when they rounded up all the poor homeless crazy people and stuffed them into jails, mental instititions and hospitals during EXPO.

Rumours abound in the Downtown Eastside that come Games time, the poor will be jailed or bused out of town.

[M.Dancer]

I remember when they rounded up all the poor homeless crazy people and stuffed them into jails, mental instititions and hospitals during EXPO.

In montreal?