Canada's Gas Prices

[Derek 2.0]

Geez...you guys are still getting hosed on gas prices ?

Today it is $0.78 per litre in my neck of the U.S. woods, and the oil/dilbit comes from Canada.

Must be those pesky taxes, eh ?

Indeed, nearly 1/3rd the price the consumer pays for fuel in Canada is to a tax, be it Federal, Provincial or city.

[Derek 2.0]

But when oil prices jump up, do they wait until the holding tanks are empty and refilled? Hell. No. It's the principle of the thing. They're allowed to gouge us whenever they feel like it, and they'll keep doing it until they get stopped. I'd hold my nose and vote for JT if he'd promise to do something about this, Harper's doing squat.

I've no doubt JT will do something about gas taxes..........

[Smallc]

Really, taxes shouldn't be lowered all that much in Canada. They're pretty low now, especially at the federal level, and we have a debt that takes money out of our pockets every year.

[sharkman]

I've no doubt JT will do something about gas taxes..........

You'll note I said nothing about taxes. That's because what I'm describing is not a tax issue, it's a price gouging issue.

[Derek 2.0]

You'll note I said nothing about taxes. That's because what I'm describing is not a tax issue, it's a price gouging issue.

Yet, as I said above ~1/3rd of the price when you purchase gas is taxes.......rest assured, a Liberal, or NDP supported Liberals Government will bring in some form of carbon tax.....with gas taxes being low hanging fruit.

As to "price gouging", that is hardly the case, it's market based pricing.......compared to the rest of the developed world, North America has it good.....if you don't like it, invest in an electric....or hybrid.....or smaller car....or a bike....or a bus pass etc........Oil companies, and in turn gas station franchise owners will charge what the market will pay....one thing is certain, going forward, the price of fuel will increase.

[Bonam]

But when oil prices jump up, do they wait until the holding tanks are empty and refilled? Hell. No. It's the principle of the thing. They're allowed to gouge us whenever they feel like it, and they'll keep doing it until they get stopped. I'd hold my nose and vote for JT if he'd promise to do something about this, Harper's doing squat.

What do you want the government to do? Engage in price fixing or price controls for gas? I don't see the need for the government to do anything. If you (or anyone) believe(s) that there is money to be made in undercutting the existing gas stations, you are completely free to start your own.

Profit margins on gas are razor thin most of the time if you actually look at the numbers... in fact negative at a lot of stations, who manage to squeak by a tiny profit by using the gas station to attract people to the convenience store, where they actually have decent margins.

[sharkman]

What do you want the government to do? Engage in price fixing or price controls for gas? I don't see the need for the government to do anything. If you (or anyone) believe(s) that there is money to be made in undercutting the existing gas stations, you are completely free to start your own.

Profit margins on gas are razor thin most of the time if you actually look at the numbers... in fact negative at a lot of stations, who manage to squeak by a tiny profit by using the gas station to attract people to the convenience store, where they actually have decent margins.

Folks, folks folks. I'm really puzzled as to the shoulder shrug response.

With the price of oil going anywhere from 80 to 150 bucks a barrel, and the reported break even point of tar sands oil being under 50, oil corps. are doing very well, and that is fine. I'm good with that. Again, what I'm talking about is when the threat of war happens, or a Saudi prince says something, all of a sudden gas prices, IN UNISON, jump up several cents. Excuse me, but that's bull shit. The costs of getting the oil out of the ground, or producing gas didn't go up that afternoon, but the pump price goes up because of something that happens across the world. And when oil drops 5 or 7 bucks, the gas price doesn't go down in the same way. There's a hang time of profiteering before the corresponding gas price is lowered.

The gas companies do all of this together, as if they are a monopoly. It stinks, folks. And I think it's time for the government to force corporations to conduct their business with a little integrity and fairness. I don't care how they do it. Maybe they should look at the model used for the electricity industry, or natural gas. In BC they can't touch their prices before applying to the government stating why and how. With all of the trillions the oil industry makes, this wouldn't hurt them one bit. If they can't be responsible with their prices, then take the responsibility away from them.

This summer in Abbotsford, gas prices peaked at about 1.439, and right now they are 1.139 per litre. There is no way the costs varied like that.

[Boges]

Regardless, this is a nice reprieve in the price of gas.

It's funny because ISIS hasn't gone away and Russia still occupies part of the Ukraine, which were reasons the prices got near record levels earlier this year.

But whatevs. In Canada we've been paying about around the same price of gas for like 6 or 7 years now (about the time this thread appears to have been started). There were doomsday predictions several times in the past few years that we'd be saying prices at $1.50/litre or even $2.00/litre (in Ontario anyway). Hasn't happened.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Boges

[Big Guy]

I have been attempting to research to find out the price of gasoline relative to the cost of living or the average cost of a car.

How has the price fluctuated relative to the COL by decades. 1950's and on.

Is the cost of gasoline at the pumps really going up?

[Boges]

I have been attempting to research to find out the price of gasoline relative to the cost of living or the average cost of a car.

How has the price fluctuated relative to the COL by decades. 1950's and on.

Is the cost of gasoline at the pumps really going up?

No, except for on the taxation end. It fluctuates, but in 2008 we saw prices that we see today. Now we're more used to those prices and maybe they're on an upward trend but our incomes have increased too. I'm used to paying $1.25/litre for gas now, I wasn't in 2008.

[GostHacked]

The gas companies do all of this together, as if they are a monopoly.

This is more correct than we can ever imagine. You have a handful of international players all playing together for a common goal.

[Boges]

This is more correct than we can ever imagine. You have a handful of international players all playing together for a common goal.

The oil is the loss leader for these gas stations. There are like 4 of them in Ontario. Esso, Petro Canada, Husky and Shell.

I go to Petro Canada because I have a Credit Card with them that gets a discount and loyalty points.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Boges

[GostHacked]

The oil is the loss litre for these gas stations. There are like 4 of them in Ontario. Esso, Petro Canada, Husky and Shell.

I go to Petro Canada because I have a Credit Card with them that gets a discount and loyalty points.

So they have to dangle a carrot in front of you in order to entice you to buy their product. Meanwhile all that marketing/gimmicks is used to throw more advertising at you and to track your spending habits.

And the fact that they lose money means that they are being subsidized. Taxpayers pay either way. I would at least like a reach around when I get rammed in the ass.

[overthere]

The oil is the loss leader for these gas stations. There are like 4 of them in Ontario. Esso, Petro Canada, Husky and Shell.

I go to Petro Canada because I have a Credit Card with them that gets a discount and loyalty points.

It is only a loss leader for the store if it is privately owned, and I very much doubt that privately owned stores would sell gas at all if they did not make something on it.. Shell -one example- extracts, refines, distributes and retails gasoline- vertically integrated. They can retain profit at all or any level of that stream, including retail outlets that they may own. By the time it gets to their pump, Shell has already made plenty.

Oh, and reasons oil companies like to franchise their retail operations is a) theyll have contract language that forces stations to take instructions on gas pricing and b ) the station franchisor takes liability for any environmental problems like underground tanks.

Edited October 15, 2014 by overthere

[Boges]

It is only a loss leader for the store if it is privately owned, and I very much doubt that privately owned stores would sell gas at all if they did not make something on it.. Shell -one example- extracts, refines, distributes and retails gasoline- vertically integrated. They can retain profit at all or any level of that stream, including retail outlets that they may own. By the time it gets to their pump, Shell has already made plenty.

All these Gas Stations are owned by franchisees. The price is completely out of their control (except for maybe a cent or two either way)

http://tomorrowsgaspricetoday.com

You can go to this website around 5pm every day and Former Liberal MP Dan McTeague will almost always accurately predict the price of gas the next day.

[guyser]

and in turn gas station franchise owners will charge what the market will pay....

In what country?

Certainly not Canada. The franchisee has no say, he is dictated the price every night around 11

[Derek 2.0]

In what country?

Certainly not Canada. The franchisee has no say, he is dictated the price every night around 11

Chopping my quotes........nice.

None the less, the consumer still pays the price "dictated" by the market......don't like it, buy a bus pass.

[Derek 2.0]

Oh, and reasons oil companies like to franchise their retail operations is a) theyll have contract language that forces stations to take instructions on gas pricing and b ) the station franchisor takes liability for any environmental problems like underground tanks.

That's dependent on if the station owner purchases his or her own gas........if so, they can sell it for whatever they want, hence why there are gas price "wars" among local retailers at times.

[Wilber]

A least gas prices are going down. Diesel prices haven't.

[overthere]

So they have to dangle a carrot in front of you in order to entice you to buy their product. Meanwhile all that marketing/gimmicks is used to throw more advertising at you and to track your spending habits.

And the fact that they lose money means that they are being subsidized. Taxpayers pay either way. I would at least like a reach around when I get rammed in the ass.

They are not 'subsidized'.

All these Gas Stations are owned by franchisees. The price is completely out of their control (except for maybe a cent or two either way)

all what gas stations are franchisees?

I agree the price is out of their retail control. If one chain goes rogue and drops wholesale prices, the franchisee does not eat the loss, they are sold the fuel at a lesser price to maintain a slim margin.

[Derek 2.0]

A least gas prices are going down. Diesel prices haven't.

Just paid 135.9 here.......regular is 115.9

[Derek 2.0]

all what gas stations are franchisees?

I agree the price is out of their retail control.

The majority of stations (in BC) are franchise owned, with the owners determining their own prices based on market realities.

[overthere]

The majority of stations (in BC) are franchise owned, with the owners determining their own prices based on market realities.

I agree. Some are owned by the companies, but they prefer franchisees for the reasons I stated. Nearly all the profit has been extracted further downstream with franchisees, profits can be manipulated on company stores.

I do not agree that franchisees can really determine their own prices. That;s what they have to say publicly but the reality is much different.

[Derek 2.0]

I agree. Some are owned by the companies, but they prefer franchisees for the reasons I stated. Nearly all the profit has been extracted further downstream with franchisees, profits can be manipulated on company stores.

I do not agree that franchisees can really determine their own prices. That;s what they have to say publicly but the reality is much different.

You base that on what?

From the GoC:

The refiner-marketers, those companies involved in both the refining and retailing of gasoline, control the prices at 17% of the retail outlets in Canada. In the other 83% of the stations, the pricing decisions are made by the independent businessmen and women who own the outlets.

Now I understand that said owners will have to purchase their fuel from a large oil company, which will set their own prices, but the inference by some, that end user purchase prices are determined by "big oil fat cats" is wrong in the vast majority of cases across Canada.

[Wilber]

Just paid 135.9 here.......regular is 115.9

Exactly. 1.37.9 here. Regular is 113.9 in some places.