Canada's Gas Prices

[White Doors]

No This was all since the year 2000. There was no reason for the jacking of my insurance rate especially since I only got basic liability for the most part. Before the Banks my insurance rates held steady and were declining. After the greedy banks got involved they started to go up.

ergo, it's all the banks fault? Sounds like your rant for wanting subsidized gasoline prices.

I guess it's always nice to have the ability to point a finger at someone when you are angry regardless if they are a valid target or not. Life is simpler that way, I will give you that much.

Question, who runs the banks?

Edited October 28, 2008 by White Doors

[M.Dancer]

And You are a demented idiot. The origins of this thread was for Canada to adopt the same law requiring all oil produced in Canada be made available for Canada to use. Any oil left can be put on the world market at world prices. .....and you are the fool.

Care to show in the US law that compells them to sell at less than the world price? I mean...a demented idiot wouldn't be able to..so it should be a no brainer for you.

Edited October 28, 2008 by M.Dancer

[guyser]

No This was all since the year 2000. There was no reason for the jacking of my insurance rate especially since I only got basic liability for the most part. Before the Banks my insurance rates held steady and were declining. After the greedy banks got involved they started to go up.

Nope.

Everyones rates increased after 9-11 due to the world markets and the increase in re-insurance markets. That said, they have come down in price significantly since then. We are at present entering a hard market and premiums will rise once again.

Markets are charging less or the same as premiums in 1996-7 .

Banks increased the market, and that meant premiums dropped as co's competed for the business.

Now it may be that your carrier has increased premiums charged, but that only means you havent shopped the market.

Do your homework.

[PoliticalCitizen]

Subsidies and price regulation aside, I have 3 questions:

1. How does $63 / barrel translate into $.93 at the pump?

2. If the Canadian dollar falls because of the falling price of oil, is the rapport of dollar to liter of gasoline constant or fluctuating as well?

3. We're running an inflation and a deflation at the same time. Do you think prices on consumer goods will increase, decrease or stay the same?

[jbg]

And You are a demented idiot.

Why not respond to the substance of the posts, including mine.

The response to the little substance in yours is that the only way a net exporter such as Canada can avoid an internal "world price" is for the government to either subsidize a lower price, or force producers to take a lower price. The problem with the latter is that Canada's oil, on balance, is costly to produce. The use of this option will ultimately turn Canada into a net importer; not something that is in anyone's interest.

The problems with subsidizing a lower price are that it's harmful to the environment, and the costs associated with the subsidy causes the government severe financial stress. Just ask Indonesia and India.

[jbg]

Subsidies and price regulation aside, I have 3 questions:

1. How does $63 / barrel translate into $.93 at the pump?

Taxes and time lag. $.93 at the pump translates to $124.35 per barrel of gasoline. About $33.02 of the difference between $63 per barrel for crude and $124.35 for gasoline represents taxes, based on Ontario's taxes of $.147 on gasoline and Federal taxes of $0.10, or a total of about $0.24.7 per litre. In addition there is a 5% GST, for a total tax burden of approximately $38 per barrel. This leaves around $22 per barrel as "crack spread" which is still, as you point out, extraordinary. I would consider much of the rest to be lag, or price drop that hasn't come through yet. The $100 figure was barely pierced in late September, meaning that based on a $100 per barrel oil price, and the same $38 per barrel tax burden, in theory the companies would be losing money. Thus, the price of $0.63 represents a figure midway through the freefall.

2. If the Canadian dollar falls because of the falling price of oil, is the rapport of dollar to liter of gasoline constant or fluctuating as well?

Oil is priced in US dollars, meaning that the impact of the price drop is lessened by your currency drop.

The taxes are about $0.24.7 per litre.

3. We're running an inflation and a deflation at the same time. Do you think prices on consumer goods will increase, decrease or stay the same?

I think we're already in a deflation, especially in the US, which will show up later in the indices.

[Topaz]

I believe that the price of gas should be down to the low .80 or even .70 with the oil being at what 67.00? We are still getting screwed at the pumps and our $$ is low. As far as car insurance remember they invested their money in the stock market two or three years ago and loss and so then they started raising the premiums?? Get a speeding ticket you insurance with goes up.I think they should change the way they charged people for insurance. If you are a good driver then u should be charged a basic fee and if you are in an accident and its not your fault then it shouldn't go up.

[guyser]

. As far as car insurance remember they invested their money in the stock market two or three years ago and loss and so then they started raising the premiums??

Not exactly but pretty close. The return from the market along with preiums earned is what determines the price you pay.

Not to mention the re-insurance market jacked up the prices.

Get a speeding ticket you insurance with goes up.

Nope.

More than two three or four, or a major ticket (40+KMH over) and yes, it does. As it should by the way since you are a higher risk.

I think they should change the way they charged people for insurance. If you are a good driver then u should be charged a basic fee and if you are in an accident and its not your fault then it shouldn't go up.

If you are in an accident and not at fault, your rates dont go up.

[jbg]

I believe that the price of gas should be down to the low .80 or even .70 with the oil being at what 67.00?

Read my post one above yours. I lay it all out.

[Alta4ever]

No This was all since the year 2000. There was no reason for the jacking of my insurance rate especially since I only got basic liability for the most part. Before the Banks my insurance rates held steady and were declining. After the greedy banks got involved they started to go up.

I missed most of this but if you are refering to rate increases bettween 2001 and 2003, thye happened because the insurance companies were not collecting enough premiums to cover the claims that were beign paid out, they were using profits from investment revenue to cover the underwriting loss. When the markets tanked at the end of the dot com bubble and they insurance companies and re-insurance companies were dealing with heavy losses due to natural disasters ( like the BC forest fires) they went into a hard market and had to make up the loss of income from the markets and cover the underwriting losses. So they had to raise rates, if the insurance companies do not stay profitiable government regulators stop them from writing business.

This has had nothing to do with the banks, and FYI there is another hard market looming, they typically run close to five year cycles. So expect to see another hard market that will last a year or so, you rates will go up, and you like everyone else will hate it.

[Alta4ever]

Read my post one above yours. I lay it all out.

You did a heck of job explaining the market.

[PoliticalCitizen]

Taxes and time lag. $.93 at the pump translates to $124.35 per barrel of gasoline. About $33.02 of the difference between $63 per barrel for crude and $124.35 for gasoline represents taxes, based on Ontario's taxes of $.147 on gasoline and Federal taxes of $0.10, or a total of about $0.24.7 per litre. In addition there is a 5% GST, for a total tax burden of approximately $38 per barrel. This leaves around $22 per barrel as "crack spread" which is still, as you point out, extraordinary. I would consider much of the rest to be lag, or price drop that hasn't come through yet. The $100 figure was barely pierced in late September, meaning that based on a $100 per barrel oil price, and the same $38 per barrel tax burden, in theory the companies would be losing money. Thus, the price of $0.63 represents a figure midway through the freefall.

Surprisingly the price at the pump actually went UP a bit today. I thought the general rule was price per liter is the price per barrel of oil but in cents + 10-15 cents on top:

If price of barrel is $120 we paid $1.20 + .13 = 1.33 at the pump;

Shouldn't the price of $63 per barrel translate into .73 - .78 per liter of regular gas?

Oil is priced in US dollars, meaning that the impact of the price drop is lessened by your currency drop.

So what does that mean exactly? When the CAD was down 4-5 years ago the gas price was also down.

But now the CAD goes down and the price goes up?

I think we're already in a deflation, especially in the US, which will show up later in the indices.

But in Canada we're running both: the dollar goes down - inflation and the price of oil goes down (with the recession) - deflation. What will happen to the prices?

[jbg]

Surprisingly the price at the pump actually went UP a bit today. I thought the general rule was price per liter is the price per barrel of oil but in cents + 10-15 cents on top:

If price of barrel is $120 we paid $1.20 + .13 = 1.33 at the pump;

Shouldn't the price of $63 per barrel translate into .73 - .78 per liter of regular gas?

So what does that mean exactly? When the CAD was down 4-5 years ago the gas price was also down.

But now the CAD goes down and the price goes up?

But in Canada we're running both: the dollar goes down - inflation and the price of oil goes down (with the recession) - deflation. What will happen to the prices?

I allowed your comments to "mix together" in order to explain that currency, in your case, is tugging prices to some extent the other way. Long run this should not swamp the move in crude but it does have an effect. It is the direction of the CAD from day to day that matters, not whether it's relatively high or low, in determining which way your pumps move.

[jbg]

You did a heck of job explaining the market.

Thanks for the compliment.

[charter.rights]

Thanks for the compliment.

$0.89 per litre yesterday on the Tyendinaga Reserve near Belleville Ontario. With all the travelling I do cheap gas is a Godsend. Hey and the buck is up 2 cents!

[whowhere]

It already is available for Canadian use. Irvings in NB buy their crude from Venezuela. You would have to convince them to buy it from Alberta instead. Why would they do that and why are you interested in making them? To what benefit? Also, as per our constitution, natural resources are the domain of the provinces - are you going to amend the constitution because you are angry about paying for gasoline? Who is the idiot now?

I think the only greed we are talking about here is yours. You are seemingly the only one wanting something for nothing. That is greedy. Where are the discounted Ontario cars for sale in NB? Your views are myopic and your arguments are not well researched. Your name calling is quite descriptive however.

You show me subsidized 'Canadian' cars and maybe then you wouldn't be a hypocrite. As it is you are seemingly only envious and angry. And greedy.

Hmm 25 Billion from the US for the auto industry to build more fuel efficient cars already and GM and Chrysler are begging for a government bailout to avoid bankruptcy. Is your head out of your ass yet??

I find it odd that you cloak yourself in the flag and then seem to gleefily look forward to the demise of a significant part of the Canadian economy. Where is your loyalty?

When the greedy put the american and world consumer ahead of Canadian needs you can go eff urself. Borders are like walls of a house. Those within the walls are family. In a family you put the needs of your family before the wants of others. When you understand that dullard come back!

Also, you should do some research about the oil sands process in Alberta. The refineries make a finished product and export. Someone else could say that the CAW simply screws in a few bolts from parts manufactured somewhere else. How is that a value-add? With the shuttering of the unionized plants in Ontario, apparently it is not much of a value-add in the eyes of some. How are the non-union plants doing? Maybe your anger is directed at the wrong target? The basis of your argument is not a rational one. Thankfully we have people in charge that make decisions very differently than you do.

You make no sense. This thread is about Canada enacting the same law requiring all oil produced in Canada be made available to Canada to use. A law the US congress felt necessary to enact. Obviously the US politicians think about the interests of America more than Canada's trash politicians think about the interests of Canada. You advocate putting the interests of the US before Canada and are thus a traitor to the Canadian people and their quality of life.

So you call him greedy and then accuse him of wanting to give money to the poor?

Your insults are as inconsistent as your 'argument' and 'logic'.

Who am I calling greedy? Well if a company has a cost of $35 dollars a barrel to extract oil and exploits world consumption to drive up the barrel to $200 is outright greed in my book. My position is fine in selling Canada's oil to the world for $200 dollars if they can can get it, but when it comes to Canada and its needs there has to be regulated limits.

Because I know their is no reasoning with the greedy I ask God everyday to drive the barrel down to $20 a barrel. For the record oil was trading at $21 dollars a barrel in 2001, not that unreasonable of a request. Also it appears China and India have jointly figured out a way to refine more gasoline out of a barrel of oil. Because of this the analysts are forcasting $40 a barrel oil. If the US grabs onto this technology maybe $20 dollar oil will happen alot sooner.

Being that the greedy oil industry has buckled the world economy and have driven the car companies to bankruptcy where the car companies are begging for a bailout. This bailout will only result in electric cars and zero demand for oil.

Oil today $51.25, 30 dollars to go.

[sharkman]

Sorry to drag up an old thread, but I thought I'd repurpose this one rather than start another. Gas prices. Is everyone okay now with the jerking around we are getting at the pumps? Oil has been under $100 for 3+ weeks, and where I am we only recently dropped under $1.20/L. There was a lot of profit taking on the gas stations, keeping the price up there when if oil goes up, that very afternoon the pump price changes. The idea to just buy into Oil companies is stupid. They are ripping off the consumer. Last night at one Chevron station, it was 1.189/L and a 5 minute drive got me 1.139 at another.

There is no way in hell it costs Chevron more to sell it at the one station, and the whole industry does this.

[The_Squid]

Isn't that the free market? If you don't like the price, don't buy gas.

[sharkman]

Goodness no, that's not the free market. All the gas stations are doing the same exact thing, it's a monopoly. The gas prices go up the day before a long weekend, for no reason other than to take profits. It just happened again on Friday. You sound like a non car owner.

[Bryan]

Goodness no, that's not the free market. All the gas stations are doing the same exact thing, it's a monopoly. The gas prices go up the day before a long weekend, for no reason other than to take profits. It just happened again on Friday. You sound like a non car owner.

Gas prices went DOWN before this long weekend, and kept going down! $1.05l/litre around here yesterday. The price at every station is different, they're setting their own price based on speculation on what they think they'll pay for the next shipment.

[Topaz]

Some gas stations won't reduce the price until their holding tanks are empty and refilled.

[Smallc]

I don't know any that do that. Most use the market price, and some use an averaged priced based on the cost of their loads.

[bush_cheney2004]

Geez...you guys are still getting hosed on gas prices ?

Today it is $0.78 per litre in my neck of the U.S. woods, and the oil/dilbit comes from Canada.

Must be those pesky taxes, eh ?

[On Guard for Thee]

Geez...you guys are still getting hosed on gas prices ?

Today it is $0.78 per litre in my neck of the U.S. woods, and the oil/dilbit comes from Canada.

Must be those pesky taxes, eh ?

and who but y'all knows more about those pesky taxes?

[sharkman]

Some gas stations won't reduce the price until their holding tanks are empty and refilled.

But when oil prices jump up, do they wait until the holding tanks are empty and refilled? Hell. No. It's the principle of the thing. They're allowed to gouge us whenever they feel like it, and they'll keep doing it until they get stopped. I'd hold my nose and vote for JT if he'd promise to do something about this, Harper's doing squat.