George Bush Was Right About A.N.W.R

[Shady]

It should be obvious to most by now, that President Bush was correct to advocate a policy for developing oil in A.N.W.R. Not only would there be several hundred thousand more barrels of oil per day available for consumption in North America, but would there would also be several hundred thousand more jobs (mostly unionized jobs) created as well.

Unfortunately, many short-sighted people, and short-sighted interest groups got in the way of the development. They pushed their influence, and scared enough people as to so far kill any type of action on this issue.

And ironically, it's many of the same people, who have the nerve to complain, about a struggling economy, increased job losses, and skyrocketing oil/gasoline prices. Ironic, because many of the problems that exist today, were either created, or exasperated by the same people and/or interest groups.

It's a shame, because the A.N.W.R development enjoyed broad support, amongst big business and labour, including The AFL-CIO, Sheet Metal Workers, Maritime Officers, Maritime Engineers, United Mine Workers, Building and Construction Trades, Operating Engineers and several other American National unions.

Simply put, to those of you who contributed to the fearmongering, and/or supported those primarily responsible for it. STFU about the current economic situation. You reap what you sow. And hopefully you realize, that actions have consquences.

[eyeball]

Unfortunately, many short-sighted people, and short-sighted interest groups got in the way of the development. They pushed their influence, and scared enough people as to so far kill any type of action on this issue.

And ironically, it's many of the same people, who have the nerve to complain, about a struggling economy, increased job losses, and skyrocketing oil/gasoline prices. Ironic, because many of the problems that exist today, were either created, or exasperated by the same people and/or interest groups.

Why isn't somebody rounding these people up and gassing them?

[GostHacked]

Even if they had started building oil rigs when they found the oil, it would have been some years before it would have made a difference. There are other new oil deposits found in the continental US as well.

There are no new refineries being built as far as I understand. So even if ANWR was developed, the bottleneck is refining the oil. You simply cannot increase oil production unless new refineries are built.

Shortsightedness indeed.

[sharkman]

Even if they had started building oil rigs when they found the oil, it would have been some years before it would have made a difference. There are other new oil deposits found in the continental US as well.

There are no new refineries being built as far as I understand. So even if ANWR was developed, the bottleneck is refining the oil. You simply cannot increase oil production unless new refineries are built.

Shortsightedness indeed.

Pretty much the exact same people Shady listed are also responsible for the lack of any new refineries.

[GostHacked]

Pretty much the exact same people Shady listed are also responsible for the lack of any new refineries.

It is the oil companies that will open up new refineries. And what I am saying is that opening up ANWR will not solve the current problem of oil refinement production. You still have a max output because of the number of refineries out there cannot keep up with the demand of more oil. That is the problem.

There is plenty of oil being pumped out of the ground right now as we speak. Lots of it. A surplus even if you will. But to covnert it into useable fuel, the refineries are the key for more production. Since you have many countries using more oil and constantly using more oil at an increasing rate, then it is given that the current max production cannot keep up with demand. Sucking up refined reserves/surplus.

Shady said

Not only would there be several hundred thousand more barrels of oil per day available for consumption in North America, .....

From my limted knowledge of oil and production, but if you look at just the numbers, only opening up new refineries will increase the total output of oil refinement into useable fuel. Tapping into 10 extra fields still won't help you if you are still planning on running on 2 refineries. Think about it.

One more time, it is about refinement capabilities, not how many feilds you have tapped.

[eyeball]

One more time, it is about refinement capabilities, not how many feilds you have tapped.

So...what ever happened to the law of supply and demand? The global market has known for decades that new emerging economies would be demanding more refinement capacity, so where is it?

Environmentalists said no, and the market said 'okay'. I just don't buy it. I think the oil companies are simply milking us for all we're worth while the milking's good. There's a real demand for wealth and we all know how supply follows demand around like a lovestruck puppy.

[Black Dog]

And ironically, it's many of the same people, who have the nerve to complain, about a struggling economy, increased job losses, and skyrocketing oil/gasoline prices. Ironic, because many of the problems that exist today, were either created, or exasperated by the same people and/or interest groups.

Of course, the U.S. energy department itself admitted ages ago that drilling in ANWR would have little impact on supply or price.

[Wilber]

Of course, the U.S. energy department itself admitted ages ago that drilling in ANWR would have little impact on supply or price.

Things change, that was four years ago. How many other things can you think of that were considered true four years ago that we look at very differently now. Fact is the relationship between supply and demand has changed drastically since 2004. That is why oil is now $118 a barrel vs $25 in 2004. ANWR is nowhere near the holy grail that some think it is but there is no doubt in my mind that if it was up and running full tilt, it would definitely have some effect on supply and price.

[Wilber]

There is plenty of oil being pumped out of the ground right now as we speak. Lots of it. A surplus even if you will. But to covnert it into useable fuel, the refineries are the key for more production. Since you have many countries using more oil and constantly using more oil at an increasing rate, then it is given that the current max production cannot keep up with demand. Sucking up refined reserves/surplus.

Then why is oil so expensive?

[Topaz]

Then why is oil so expensive?

My personal belief is that if oil companies don't build refineries and the demandd is high the prices stay high too. If they built lots of refineries than the supply would be over the top and the prices would fall. Then again, OPEC has alot to do with it and I'm probably wrong! I'm sure taxes play a part of it too.

[Wilber]

My personal belief is that if oil companies don't build refineries and the demandd is high the prices stay high too. If they built lots of refineries than the supply would be over the top and the prices would fall. Then again, OPEC has alot to do with it and I'm probably wrong! I'm sure taxes play a part of it too.

A lack of refining capability would effect the price of fuel but if you have more oil than you can refine, oil should be cheap, so why is it so expensive?

[M.Dancer]

A lack of refining capability would effect the price of fuel but if you have more oil than you can refine, oil should be cheap, so why is it so expensive?

Might have something to do with the world's fastest growing car market....you have to remember, the porice is set for the glabal market aqnd while we can meet the demand, other parts of the world are far hungrier for fuel and it is their demand that is driving the price .

Think China, Think India.....Brazil.....mexico...etc

[Wilber]

Might have something to do with the world's fastest growing car market....you have to remember, the porice is set for the glabal market aqnd while we can meet the demand, other parts of the world are far hungrier for fuel and it is their demand that is driving the price .

Think China, Think India.....Brazil.....mexico...etc

Of course it does. I'm just saying the price of oil has nothing to do with a lack of refining capacity.

[Peter F]

Wilber is correct. If Refining capacity could not keep up with demand then we would see demand outstripping supply wich would mean some of those seeking supply would not get it.

The price of oil is being driven up by speculation; investers bailing US$ funds seeking commodity investment due to US$ shrinking interest rates and good ol' knee-jerk panic and bandwaggoning.

There is no supply problem yet. Perhaps there will be in the future and the panic is now.

This is normal. Suck it up.

[White Doors]

So...what ever happened to the law of supply and demand? The global market has known for decades that new emerging economies would be demanding more refinement capacity, so where is it?

Environmentalists said no, and the market said 'okay'. I just don't buy it. I think the oil companies are simply milking us for all we're worth while the milking's good. There's a real demand for wealth and we all know how supply follows demand around like a lovestruck puppy.

ummm.. There are plans to open a new refinery in Saint John NB. A possible joint project between the Maritimes First Family and BP..

But never mind, on with your conspiracy ramblings.

[Shady]

Many of you are absolutely right. There isn't an oil supply problem. The problem is in the oil production. In America, it's been some 3 decades since a new oil refinery has been constructed. Mostly, if not entirely because of environmental government regulations. Also, because of environmental concerns, vast oil deposits within North America have gone undeveloped, particularly in Alaska, and off the coasts of Florida and the Gulf of Mexico. Meanwhile, you have the Chinese drilling in places like off the coast of Cuba/Florida, where American oil companies can just sit and watch.

A.N.W.R itself isn't the whole answer, but that, and the Florida coast, and North Dakota, as well as the construction of new refineries absolutely is. However, good luck trying to impliment any of that policy/development. You'll have the same idiots who complain about gas prices, protesting your efforts for "destroying the environment".

Of course, the U.S. energy department itself admitted ages ago that drilling in ANWR would have little impact on supply or price.

I'm not sure analysis from 2004 when oil prices, as well as demand was significantly lower, has much relevance to today's situation. Case in point:

Environmentalists argue that much of that oil may not be economically recoverable if oil prices decline

I'm still eagerly waiting for the oil price declines these environmentalists refer to. Let me know when it happens, just in case I'm busy that day and miss it on the news.

[eyeball]

So why hasn't the market been able to respond to the demand for an environmentally safe oil industry? It doesn't want to or something?

[peter_puck]

It should be obvious to most by now, that President Bush was correct to advocate a policy for developing oil in A.N.W.R. Not only would there be several hundred thousand more barrels of oil per day available for consumption in North America, but would there would also be several hundred thousand more jobs (mostly unionized jobs) created as well.

George Bush has been correct about almost nothing during his presidency - and I am an economic conservative.

While I suppose I do support drilling ANWR it is nowhere near a solution. Go look at home much oil consumption has been rising.

This reminds me of the IBM commercial where a company board tries to hire a rock bank to write a jingle because they have serious structural problems, and a cute jingle just might make people forget. Thats all ANWR is - a cute jingle.

The problem is that the US has to dramatically lower its oil consumption and change its lifestyle. Everyone is afraid to say this however. Instead they resort to lies like corn ethanol, or blame scapegoats like the gas tax or greedy oil companies.

Unfortunately, many short-sighted people, and short-sighted interest groups got in the way of the development. They pushed their influence, and scared enough people as to so far kill any type of action on this issue.

Short sighted is thinking ANWR is going to make a difference. The problem is world wide. Some guy in China can do the same job anyone on this board does. Over the long run, that means he can afford the same lifestyle we do now. Problem is that there is not enough oil, copper, platinum, rare earths, for both of us to comsume the same amount of materials that we do now.

And ironically, it's many of the same people, who have the nerve to complain, about a struggling economy, increased job losses, and skyrocketing oil/gasoline prices. Ironic, because many of the problems that exist today, were either created, or exasperated by the same people and/or interest groups.

Oil is a global. It would be skyrocketing if ANWR was drilled or not. Oil prices are based on the WORLD market. The jobs would be a drop in the bucket, especially considering there is a huge unfilled labour shortage in that industry now anyways.

[peter_puck]

Many of you are absolutely right. There isn't an oil supply problem. The problem is in the oil production. In America, it's been some 3 decades since a new oil refinery has been constructed.

Of course it is a supply problem. The price of oil is at $115 a barrel all over the world.

Mostly, if not entirely because of environmental government regulations.

Okay..lets agree with your theory then, that environmental government regulations have stopped all these new refineries in the US. Why would someone not just built one in Mexico......or Canada....or Hati...and shipped the refined product to the US. Pipelines already exist near Sarnia (and probably other places).

The problem is that the oil companies know that production ain't gonna get above current levels, so why add capacity when the plants will sit unused.

Meanwhile, you have the Chinese drilling in places like off the coast of Cuba/Florida, where American oil companies can just sit and watch.

Again, this does not effect the price of oil in the United States. The price of oil is GLOBAL. If the Chinese take oil from Cuba and ship it to China, then thats one less barrel of oil that they buy from Nigeria - which is then shipped to the United States.

I'm still eagerly waiting for the oil price declines these environmentalists refer to. Let me know when it happens, just in case I'm busy that day and miss it on the news.

This is a weird little strawman. I have heard few environmentalists talking about prices one day going down. Thats been the oil companies.