Is the US still a democracy? Or is it a plutocracy?

[Num13ers]

Corporations seem to run the US the days.

The US hasn't looked much like a democratic republic in the last few decades.

It looks more like a plutocratic government.

Whats your opinion?

[M.Dancer]

Global Crossing

Conrad Black

Enron

ImClone

Tyco

Worldcom

I see no evidence of corporations running the US.

I think the democratic process is alive and well, otherwise why are the two democratic candidates who are publicly opposed to free trade, cozy with the unions, still running?

[bush_cheney2004]

Corporations seem to run the US the days.

The US hasn't looked much like a democratic republic in the last few decades.

It looks more like a plutocratic government.

The US was never a "democratic republic"....it is a constitutional republic that started with democratic principles for male land and business owners. It's been upgraded a bit since then..and corporations are just part of the mix.

[eyeball]

It's been upgraded a bit since then..and corporations are just part of the mix.

Yeah, corporations weren't even considered people in the old days. Now they're just like...good ol' boys.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yeah, corporations weren't even considered people in the old days. Now they're just like...good ol' boys.

The US is a corporation, with several mergers and hostile takeovers. Doesn't even have a real name...just the union of smaller corps. on a continent called "America". I love it when a plan comes together.

[M.Dancer]

I think a lot of people, especially A,ericans have a misunderstanidng or what a republic means. It certainly doesn't imply non democratic or is the antinom of democracy. It's closer to non monarchy than any thing else..res pubica means commonwealth...or state.

To say simply that America isn't a democracy it's a republic is a non sequitur. And as the Ameican experiance has amply shown, from it;s inception it has been democratic (limited in our perspective) and has evolved into the one of the longest continous democracies in history.

[Leafless]

The US is a corporation, with several mergers and hostile takeovers. Doesn't even have a real name...just the union of smaller corps. on a continent called "America". I love it when a plan comes together.

How true!

The United States Isn't a Country — It's a Corporation!

The altered version reads: "THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA". It is the corporate constitution. It is NOT the same document you might think it is. The corporate constitution operates in an economic capacity and has been used to fool the People into thinking it is the same parchment that governs the Republic. It absolutely is not

The UNITED STATES government is basically a corporate instrument of the international bankers. This means YOU are owned by the corporation from birth to death. The corporate UNITED STATES also holds ownership of all your assets, your property, and even your children. Does this sound untrue? Think long and hard about all those bills you pay, all those various taxes and fines and licenses you must pay for. Yes, they've got you by the pockets. Actually, they've had you by the ass for as long as you've been alive. In your heart, you know it's true. Don't believe any of this? Read up on the 14th Amendment. Check out how "free" you really are.

http://www.serendipity.li/jsmill/us_corporation.htm

Edited April 26, 2008 by Leafless

[Shady]

Threads like this make me laugh.

[Moonlight Graham]

Yes the U.S. is a plutocracy. You can't win the White House unless you have boatloads of cash funding your campaign. I await the day until i'm proved otherwise.

[Moonlight Graham]

The US was never a "democratic republic"....it is a constitutional republic that started with democratic principles for male land and business owners.

Why do people always debate exactly what the U.S "is". Its a liberal democracy. Its a republic. Its constitutional. Its a federation. Its lots of things. You are both right, & IMO there's no one right answer.

Edited April 27, 2008 by Moonlight Graham

[bush_cheney2004]

Why do people always debate exactly what the U.S "is". Its a liberal democracy. Its a republic. Its constitutional. Its a federation. Its lots of things. You are both right, & IMO there's no one right answer.

Beats me.....seems that some people are consumed by notions of a "U.S." that have never existed. The USA is not here to live up to somebody else's expectations of what it was or should be.

Edited April 27, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[the janitor]

The USA is not here to live up to somebody else's expectations of what it was or should be.

Somebody else being who exactly?

[bush_cheney2004]

Somebody else being who exactly?

Anyone who can't distinguish between the real America and their fantasies.

[Argus]

Corporations seem to run the US the days.

The US hasn't looked much like a democratic republic in the last few decades.

It looks more like a plutocratic government.

Whats your opinion?

Of course it's a democracy. The people can vote in whatever they want - if they ever figure out what it is they want. It's true that corporations and corporate lobbyists exercise massive influence, and at times seem to be running things. But that's only because the electorate is too stupid and lazy to educate themselves, to follow what's happening, and to vote their own interests. Instead they fall for political posturing over "gun control" and "abortion" and "family values" and other such emotional issues which affect the lives of almost no one.

I well remember when Hillary Clinton was a shiny new first lady, and was working all out to bring in public health care. I remember all those ads the American medical establishment put out to scare people away from it. That advertising was, to me, simplistic and nonsensical, but it worked. The idiot public, or enough of them to matter, bought into the great fear of "socialized medicine" and public health care was stopped in its tracks. But do we blame the pharmaceutical, health care and medical lobbyists or the idiots who let themselves be swayed by cheap gimmicks and advertising?

[bush_cheney2004]

Of course it's a democracy. The people can vote in whatever they want - if they ever figure out what it is they want.

Ummm...no they can't. That's what a "constitutional republic" is all about, including majority tyranny for such things as mandatory / universal health care and restrictions on insurance for medical procedures.

[M.Dancer]

Ummm...no they can't. That's what a "constitutional republic" is all about, including majority tyranny for such things as mandatory / universal health care and restrictions on insurance for medical procedures.

All that is a logical non sequitor. sort of if margreace commented...

[August1991]

The US hasn't looked much like a democratic republic in the last few decades.

No one knows for sure who will be president in 2009 and that makes the US a democracy in my mind.

In addition, the US State is restricted in what it can do. In the US, the individual is still largely free to choose. If you don't like a particular corporation, don't deal with it. No corporation can force you to have anything to do with it unless you choose to do so.

[bush_cheney2004]

All that is a logical non sequitor. sort of if margreace commented...

Who is "margreace"? So when does the mandatory health care system start?

[M.Dancer]

Who is "margreace"? So when does the mandatory health care system start?

I don't know...is it relevant? Does it have anything to do with toasters?

[bush_cheney2004]

I don't know...is it relevant? Does it have anything to do with toasters?

Yes....in the USA, toasters are not mandatory either.

[M.Dancer]

Yes....in the USA, toasters are not mandatory either.

ah....Good..democracy in action them.

[August1991]

Yes....in the USA, toasters are not mandatory either.

But taxes are mandatory and so is a social security contribution.

The US devotes a larger share of GDP to health than Canada does and yet many individual Americans receive fewer health benefits. Sorry, no one buys health care the way they buy toasting services.

[bush_cheney2004]

But taxes are mandatory and so is a social security contribution.

Really? My brother hasn't paid social security taxes through the past 20 years of employment. Instant pay raise!

The US devotes a larger share of GDP to health than Canada does and yet many individual Americans receive fewer health benefits. Sorry, no one buys health care the way they buy toasting services.

Sure they do.....money talks.....even Canadians walk to the USA to buy faster access and services. Health care is a business....not a right.

[Remiel]

No one knows for sure who will be president in 2009 and that makes the US a democracy in my mind.

No, not logically. There is always a possibility that everyone is sure that one person will win the vote but are unsure of whether the other person is going to steal the election. You know, like Pakistan, Zimbabwe, Kenya, et cetera... So, not knowing does not a democracy make.

[August1991]

Really? My brother hasn't paid social security taxes through the past 20 years of employment. Instant pay raise!

Your brother's an illegal immigrant?

Sure they do.....money talks.....even Canadians walk to the USA to buy faster access and services. Health care is a business....not a right.

B_C, people do not buy toasters the same way they buy health services - whether in Canada, the US, France or Red China.

First of all, your comparison is obviously simplistic, ignorant and idiotic.

Second, if I had to choose a comparison in rich countries, we buy health care the way we pay for car maintenance. We want a good warranty and then we pay for 8000 km servicing. IOW, we buy catastrophic insurance and pay for regular contracted attention.

Under Eisenhower, the US federal government taxed and paid for the building of the Interstate system. Even Ronald Reagan would probably admit that the Interstate system, for its time and place, was a good thing.

There is always a possibility that everyone is sure that one person will win the vote but are unsure of whether the other person is going to steal the election. You know, like Pakistan, Zimbabwe, Kenya, et cetera... So, not knowing does not a democracy make.

I'd consider that a step above Stalin, Ceaucescu, Hitler, Mao, Franco and even Castro. In such dictatorships, people have to wait until the dictator dies before anything truly changes.

If every four years, the president is unknown, whatever the method of selection, I'd call that a "democracy". It's certainly not a dictatorship.

Edited May 25, 2008 by August1991