Political Correctness

[Argus]

The recent nonsense over Luwkiski is a reminder, once again, of the strange political correctness which exists among the chattering classes in Canada. The fact that a guy at a party, drinking, holds forth before a camera and his sniggering friends, on some issue or other and says absurd, even insulting things (dirty fingernails?) about people should surprise no one. Most everyone has done it, on all ends of the political spectrum (if not in front of a video camera). Whether the target of disdain is Jews, Homosexuals, Conservatives, or whatever, is of no particular note. The reaction to Luwkiski is, however.

It's not the condemnation of his words, but the condemnation of him, and more importantly, the outraged demand for punishment which is of note. The PC crowd (much in evidence here) have demanded everything from his firing, to his ouster from the party, to having an investigation into the party itself due to his "outrageous" comments of 16 or 17 years ago.

It's hard for me to wrap my mind around where such people come from who are so intolerant and so frightened of opinions they dislike that they rush to attack and demand punishment for those uttering them. This is second rate politician from asshate Saskatchewan, yet we have thundering denunciations from all parties and throughout the media. Ralph Goodale - whose face seems perpetually twisted into a scowl of self-righteous indignation, demands he be expelled from the party - Ralph, who represents the corrupt Liberals. Yeesh.

The Danish cartoons were another example of this. Rather inoffensive political commentary though they were, they incited riots among the crazed illiterates of the Muslim world, none of whom had ever seen them. And it seems that was enough to get them banned throughout Canada. Even while embassies burned Canadians weren't allowed to see why all those people were frothing at the mouth and pulling at their beards. For fear of offense.

It seems that giving offense is at the root of political correctness. And it doesn't really matter whether the offense is genuine or realistic or reasonable. The PC crowd demands no one be offended - well, except for those groups they don't like. They're fine with, say, Christians being offended. They don't mind crosses submerged in urine being called art, or upside down churches dripping blood, or plays and movies about a gay Jesus having affairs and masturbating. That such things might give grievous offense to Christians is of no particular interest or import. No, the PC crowd, which is on the Left, of course, only cares about those it finds politically acceptable. Offend Jews or Christians, by all means, but don't you dare offend Muslims. Or, for that matter, Homos.

An interesting and timely article in the paper yesterday gives a top notch look at Political Correctness in action. It seems a student newspaper had an article which was deemed "offensive" to women, and (gasp) a cartoon deemed offensive to the disabled. The PC crowd in all their shrill fury is in an uproar, succeeding in getting funding pulled from the paper. But that isn't the most clear evidence of how a PC mind works. For pulling funding wasn't nearly good enough. The student federation will debate a motion to force the newspaper's editorial staff into reeducation camps, believe it or not.

U of O Pulls funding to student newspaper

This is the same school which, last week banned military advertising in its main newspaper, btw.

But as I said, appropriate, because political correctness began in universities, and is still strongest there among young (stupid) and zealous people who have found some great purpose in life by being in support or opposition to whatever fad strikes their immature minds. Unfortunately, that kind of mindset, that kind of thinking, flows out from universities as these ideologically driven zealots grow up and go out into the world. Oh, some of them mature and cast it aside, but others cling to it and join the NDP - and the media. Others stay at university, helping perpetuate this sick political fetish of fear and suspicion of contrary opinions.

This kind of thing has so infected our public life that we now see platoons of drones running for offices at all levels. Gone is colour, gone is personality, gone is anything which might give offense and draw the shrill cries of indignation from the PC crowd. Just about the only men and women who can survive in such an atmosphere are those lacking in personality, who run everything through spin doctors before opening their mouths. Hello Stephan Dion. Who, in fact, among our federal, provincial, or municipal politicians would you even want to live next door to? They're all such a bland, dull group of nothings you wouldn't even invite them to a party. It's the emptiness of personality which has been inspired by the PC crowd in media and academia, and which threatens to warp our sense of selves through their trumpeting of impossible, unrealistic purity of mind.

As if Jack Layton and Olivia Chow were the embodiment of how we should all think.

I don't know what the answer is to such people, though, except to continue to speak out against them, to mock and ridicule them and point out how absurd are their fears and intolerance, and how out of step they are with the human condition.

Make no mistake about it, though. The PC crowd is a lot more dangerous than the Ernst Zundels of the world. Zundel only targets the freedom of Jews. The PC crowd targets all of us.

[eyeball]

Well, so long as the Conservative Party is refusing to have anything to do with an organization that accepts David Ahenakew's public apology I fail to see why anyone should have anything to do with a Conservative Party that is willing to accept Tom Luwkiski's apology.

At least Ahenakew did the right thing in the end. I suspect Luwkiski will too.

If not I'll take it as an indication that conservatives place homosexuals lower on the totem pole than Jews. I can only imagine where homosexual Jews fit in.

[August1991]

Well, so long as the Conservative Party is refusing to have anything to do with an organization that accepts David Ahenakew's public apology I fail to see why anyone should have anything to do with a Conservative Party that is willing to accept Tom Luwkiski's apology.

Eyeball, who appointed you the arbiter in deciding whether one statement is equivalent to another and both require censure?

Are you so sanctimonious in your real life?

----

IMV, political correctness is a strange new moral code that intends somehow to improve the world by making people think better thoughts. Previous social experiments of the sort have usually come to horrible ends.

[M.Dancer]

..... David Ahenakew's......totem pole .....

White man speak with Freudian tongue...

[Argus]

Well, so long as the Conservative Party is refusing to have anything to do with an organization that accepts David Ahenakew's public apology I fail to see why anyone should have anything to do with a Conservative Party that is willing to accept Tom Luwkiski's apology.

At least Ahenakew did the right thing in the end. I suspect Luwkiski will too.

Luwkisi made a dumb reference to homosexuals 16 years ago while clowning around at a small private party. Ahenakew was perfectly serious and sober when he publicly called Jews a disease and said they were responsible for all the world's ills, and that the Holocaust was justified. If you can't comprehend the massive difference then you're exactly as I stated in one of my posts on that thread, one of those people so hysterical about political correctness that that you are incapable of making a distinction between an offhand ethnic joke and Hitlerites and white supremacists.

Despite the vile nature of Ahenakew's remarks I would defend his right to make them, and don't think any charge of "spreading hate" is deserved. That law is a dangerous affront to freedom of speech. Much better that such ideas come out in the open so they can be confronted.

Ahenakew, btw, has never given any indication he doesn't still believe in them. He has since complained about the "racial control" of the world media.

[jbg]

But as I said, appropriate, because political correctness began in universities, and is still strongest there among young (stupid) and zealous people who have found some great purpose in life by being in support or opposition to whatever fad strikes their immature minds. Unfortunately, that kind of mindset, that kind of thinking, flows out from universities as these ideologically driven zealots grow up and go out into the world. Oh, some of them mature and cast it aside, but others cling to it and join the NDP - and the media. Others stay at university, helping perpetuate this sick political fetish of fear and suspicion of contrary opinions.

PC started with tthe admirable efforts to stamp out racial segregation in the 1960's. Words like the "N" word were used in denigrating and hateful ways, and frankly had no place in political dialogue or public places like schools. We went from a sensible place to an extreme one in no time. Along the way values such as freedom were forgotten.

Make no mistake about it, though. The PC crowd is a lot more dangerous than the Ernst Zundels of the world. Zundel only targets the freedom of Jews. The PC crowd targets all of us.

Also, Zundel is a crank with few followers. As we can see from a 56 page hullaballoo, PC has many more acolytes than Zundel.

[Wilber]

Political Correctness has degenerated into one of two things depending on a persons objective.

1. An excuse to stifle opinions that do not agree with their own.

2. An excuse to let others do their thinking for them.

In short, one of the most frightening phrases in the English language.

[noahbody]

I'm sure every MP has either laughed at a gay, Ukrainian, paki or Indian joke in their lives. They should all stand up in the House, apologize and resign.

[eyeball]

Eyeball, who appointed you the arbiter in deciding whether one statement is equivalent to another and both require censure?

Are you so sanctimonious in your real life?

----

IMV, political correctness is a strange new moral code that intends somehow to improve the world by making people think better thoughts. Previous social experiments of the sort have usually come to horrible ends.

There's no doubt PC is a bizzare thing, in the meantime I see little reason to differentiate between Ahenakew or Luwkiski in light of the similar ways Jews and homosexuals have been treated.

With a few sterling exceptions such as Anne Frank's family, the Danish people and some shining stars elsewhere, much of Europe was happy to be rid of its "Jewish Problem" and its fickle love/hate relationship with the Jews.

Of course, to their perception, Hitler was clearing out other "undesirables" as well; gays, gypsies, and others.

I suspect much of North America would be just as happy to be rid of our gay problem, whatever that is.

I don't discount the very good possibility that both of the men in question are indeed very sorry for the comments they made and that their humiliation has caused them to see the light and the error of their ways. Unfortunately the issues of hate and bigotry are far bigger than these men and the equivalence of hate and bigotry in my opinion require equivalent censure, or forgiveness.

As for the horrible ends and social experiments. At first I thought your idea that PC is like a code that tries to make a person think something was a wierd way of putting it, but then I thought about it in terms of memes. Surely you are not suggesting that it is only the left that engages in transmitting memes in the hopes they will transform society into something better? That said what on Earth is wrong with trying to encourage people to think better thoughts and say better things?

[Oleg Bach]

There's no doubt PC is a bizzare thing, in the meantime I see little reason to differentiate between Ahenakew or Luwkiski in light of the similar ways Jews and homosexuals have been treated.

I suspect much of North America would be just as happy to be rid of our gay problem, whatever that is.

I don't discount the very good possibility that both of the men in question are indeed very sorry for the comments they made and that their humiliation has caused them to see the light and the error of their ways. Unfortunately the issues of hate and bigotry are far bigger than these men and the equivalence of hate and bigotry in my opinion require equivalent censure, or forgiveness.

As for the horrible ends and social experiments. At first I thought your idea that PC is like a code that tries to make a person think something was a wierd way of putting it, but then I thought about it in terms of memes. Surely you are not suggesting that it is only the left that engages in transmitting memes in the hopes they will transform society into something better? That said what on Earth is wrong with trying to encourage people to think better thoughts and say better things?

What was wrong with the privacey of the good old fashioned closet? Really..this selfish hedonism has been going on for centuries and I liked it better when I did not have to know what man was doing what to the other..this in your face stuff is just plain irritating and boring...Hate is a very unhealthy emotion. Contempt and disrespect (respect is the transphere of power) may be more healthy. Those that hate in a systemic manner are very very easy to manipulate....I don't hate the gays or the gypsies or undesirable materialist lieing bastards...I simply disapprove...and that is my right to disagree and not exault dogs gays and commies to the highest mount - just don't want to be dominated by anyone - if you want to maintain control of your environ - control yourself and don't worry about others - BUT - when dogs and gays have more rights than I do - a man who bred and did his human duty...well - I find it irritating and insulting....no one is going to control me with political correctness...that all it really is is suppression that will grow into oppression in time - for all groups...political correctness is censure of free thought and speech....so can I say the word "hetrofag" when I describe dishonourable straight cowardly males?

[eyeball]

What was wrong with the privacey of the good old fashioned closet?

....so can I say the word "hetrofag" when I describe dishonourable straight cowardly males?

You can call yourself whatever you like in your closet.

[August1991]

I don't discount the very good possibility that both of the men in question are indeed very sorry for the comments they made and that their humiliation has caused them to see the light and the error of their ways. Unfortunately the issues of hate and bigotry are far bigger than these men and the equivalence of hate and bigotry in my opinion require equivalent censure, or forgiveness.

As for the horrible ends and social experiments. At first I thought your idea that PC is like a code that tries to make a person think something was a wierd way of putting it, but then I thought about it in terms of memes. Surely you are not suggesting that it is only the left that engages in transmitting memes in the hopes they will transform society into something better? That said what on Earth is wrong with trying to encourage people to think better thoughts and say better things?

My simple answer to the above is that slavery is no longer a scourge in Western countries, and duelling is no longer a method to resolve private disputes. We have put these practices behind us. Before you think however that it is possible to campaign for "better practices", remember prohibition. In 1919, after a long temperance campaign, the US passed a constitutional amendment to forbid trade in alcohol. It was a disaster.

Cambodia, China and the Soviet Union tried to make a "new man" based on a new morality. Once again, the experiments were horrific disasters.

Eyeball, it is sad to say that the Progressive Left has the instinct to reform man. The Right, in its Libertarian heart, prefers to let people be. At most, social conservatives want individuals to face the consequences of their actions. Social engineering is largely an affair of the Left.

It seems to me that if slavery or duelling no longer exist in the West, it is largely because they benefit no one - and not because of social campaigns to eradicate them. Similarly, bigotry and racism will disappear when they too benefit no one. I'm not so sure that moral campaigns such as political correctness accomplish anything.

Sorry if I've gone off an intellectual tangent.

To get back to the OP, Argus makes the good point above that there is a distinction between Thomas Lukiwski's private drunken remarks 16 years ago (for which he has apologized) and David Ahenakew's numerous bizarre diatribes (for which he hasn't really apologized). It is this lack of seeing a distinction that is unnerving.

It seems to me that like many ideologues, proponents of PC thought are typically Black & White people. One is either perfect or beyond the pale. In addition, they are earnest and humourless. Milan Kundera wrote a book called The Joke precisely about how the Soviets had abolished humour.

I was watching an old (1950s) episode of Perry Mason the other night in which Paul Drake was flirting with Della Street. It's sad in a way that such bantering can't be done anymore in the real world. I'm not even certain that a female character could be named Della Street.

I sense that in 50 years or so, people will look back on this era as we look at musty portrait photographs from the late 19th century. Political correctness is stilted like Victorians.

Edited April 7, 2008 by August1991

[Peter F]

t seems to me that if slavery or duelling no longer exist in the West, it is largely because they benefit no one - and not because of social campaigns to eradicate them.

Actually, slavery was tremendous benefit to quite a few - wich is why it lasted the many thousands of years it did. Social campains to eradicate slavery were long hard political struggles that eventually led to the RN interdicting the transportation of slaves; the US civil War and various South American revolutions. War is the greatest Social Engineering operation of them all.

See Germany, Japan, Iraq and Afghanistan

[August1991]

Actually, slavery was tremendous benefit to quite a few - wich is why it lasted the many thousands of years it did. Social campains to eradicate slavery were long hard political struggles that eventually led to the RN interdicting the transportation of slaves; the US civil War and various South American revolutions.

That's what proponents of political correctness would have us believe. I wonder.

I'll leave aside the horrific failures such as the Chinese Cultural Revolution, the Cambodian Killing Fields or the idea of Homo Sovieticus or even American prohibition. Instead, let's consider the supposed successes of abolishing slavery and duelling.

In the case of slavery, there is much evidence that the industrial revolution made it obsolete. IOW, the laws interdicting the slave trade alone made no difference. What made a difference is that owning another person was no longer beneficial.

With that said, I think the people who attacked the Bastille in Paris or stood up to a British king in Boston did something good for their children and grandchildren.

[Peter F]

That's what proponents of political correctness would have us believe. I wonder.

I'll leave aside the horrific failures such as the Chinese Cultural Revolution, the Cambodian Killing Fields or the idea of Homo Sovieticus or even American prohibition. Instead, let's consider the supposed successes of abolishing slavery and duelling.

In the case of slavery, there is much evidence that the industrial revolution made it obsolete. IOW, the laws interdicting the slave trade alone made no difference. What made a difference is that owning another person was no longer beneficial.

With that said, I think the people who attacked the Bastille in Paris or stood up to a British king in Boston did something good for their children and grandchildren.

So who claims Social Engineering always works?

No doubt the Industrial Revolution was putting paid to mass labour. I agree the end of slavery would have come about eventually had no one interfered with slave owners buying and selling human beings.

But your claim

the laws interdicting the slave trade alone made no difference.

is obviously rediculous - Such laws and wars and social engineering campaigns made all the difference in the world to put an end to slavery. Just like laws against child labour in the Factories of the Industrial Revolution put an end to those abuses because the Industrial Revolution certainly didn't.

And those laws/wars/edicts didnt come out of the blue. There long slogging political campains required to create the necessary environment for such laws etc to be enacted. Social Engineering at its very best - from the bottom up. Wich is why the Cultural revolution and the Cambodian Killing fields were ineffective and why women have the vote in most countries, why the US is one nation and not two and why the USofA does not include Canada or Mexico...and also a large and significant contribution to the Victory of the Allies over the Axis powers in WWII.

Huzzah for Social Engineering....its a good thing (sometimes).

Edited April 7, 2008 by Peter F

[charter.rights]

So who claims Social Engineering always works?

No doubt the Industrial Revolution was putting paid to mass labour. I agree the end of slavery would have come about eventually had no one interfered with slave owners buying and selling human beings.

But your claim is obviously rediculous - Such laws and wars and social engineering campaigns made all the difference in the world to put an end to slavery. Just like laws against child labour in the Factories of the Industrial Revolution put an end to those abuses because the Industrial Revolution certainly didn't.

And those laws/wars/edicts didnt come out of the blue. There long slogging political campains required to create the necessary environment for such laws etc to be enacted. Social Engineering at its very best - from the bottom up. Wich is why the Cultural revolution and the Cambodian Killing fields were ineffective and why women have the vote in most countries, why the US is one nation and not two and why the USofA does not include Canada or Mexico...and also a large and significant contribution to the Victory of the Allies over the Axis powers in WWII.

Huzzah for Social Engineering....its a good thing (sometimes).

I hate to break it to you, but child labour is alive and unregulated in Canada and the US. Only, here they're called "child entertainers" and "newspaper boys and girls" or "fund raisers". Large corporations and charities exploit children to their own benefit in order to keep cheap products and services on the shelf and on TV. Schools and other institutions use children for fundraising and for posters and advertisements for their businesses. Most Canadians can't see that it is still a form of slavery and child exploitation. When was the last time that a 2 or 3 year old gave informed consent to appear in a commercial?

[Adelle]

The recent nonsense over Luwkiski is a reminder, once again, of the strange political correctness which exists among the chattering classes in Canada.

The purpose of the ‘loyal’ opposition is to oppose everything the governing party does or attempts to do even if it is exactly what the opposition wants them to do. From the moment a party becomes the opposition they begin campaigning to position themselves to win the next election and then to bring down the government. As has been seen, the Liberals have not been able to achieve ‘part a’ so they have not yet chosen to execute ‘part b’. Until that time they will use anything and everything in an attempt to taint the governing party, including something stupid that happened 16 years ago.

Although I was only 4 years old at the time, even I realize that sensibilities in 1992 were different than sensibilities today. Things that are offensive in our present hypersensitive culture were not considered offensive, or as offensive, then. History, and it is history, should be taken in context. The man apologized and that would be an end to it if politics weren’t involved.

I am sure that all the parties are now checking to make sure there are not odd videotapes floating around. Wouldn’t want to throw rocks in a glass house.

[White Doors]

I hate to break it to you, but child labour is alive and unregulated in Canada and the US. Only, here they're called "child entertainers" and "newspaper boys and girls" or "fund raisers". Large corporations and charities exploit children to their own benefit in order to keep cheap products and services on the shelf and on TV. Schools and other institutions use children for fundraising and for posters and advertisements for their businesses. Most Canadians can't see that it is still a form of slavery and child exploitation. When was the last time that a 2 or 3 year old gave informed consent to appear in a commercial?

I see... so you are, straight faced, comparing slavery with a modern day newspaper delivery boy?

And you think that is valid?

Why do people (like me) even bother to respond to you?

[M.Dancer]

When was the last time you saw a kid delivering a newspaper?

Having a newspaper route used to be a coveted job....today it would be a parent's nightmare.

[scribblet]

I'm sure every MP has either laughed at a gay, Ukrainian, paki or Indian joke in their lives. They should all stand up in the House, apologize and resign.

Right...

Argus is right, the only reason that the other thread is going on for so long is because of the vested interests of some people, in keeping it front and centre. It is hard to see the hypocrisy of so many - how many could honestly say they plugged their ears when this type of joke was being said, did they rush to report it to the joke police ? Do they now rush to report any overhead conversations to the thought police too?

Granted the comments in question were not respectful, but the two apologies where enough, but now it seems they are not, only blood will do which means, we should take a firm stand (and it is never too late) in the defence of the freedom to publicly profess and discuss philosophical and ethical issues in a respectful manner and to resist the censors, the bullies, and the hypocrites, who are suppressing discussion on the spurious grounds that they are defending human rights. This is now the kind of politics you get when the liberal media runs things. How many good people are discouraged from even thinking about running for office because a) any goofy thing they ever did will wind up on You Tube, and they will be attacked for every good original idea that they have.

[scribblet]

I am sure that all the parties are now checking to make sure there are not odd videotapes floating around. Wouldn’t want to throw rocks in a glass house.

True, but one has to wonder if it was 'floating around', the tape wasn't made in those offices, it was at a party, it's quite possible that the tape was given to the opposition by some one with an axe to grind. It's funny how these long lost items suddenly show up in offices occupied for years, cos it was 'left behind'.

[Brain Candy]

Political Correctness, like economic Marxism, has a single factor explanation of history. Economic Marxism says that all of history is determined by ownership of means of production. Cultural Marxism, or Political Correctness, says that all history is determined by power, by which groups defined in terms of race, sex, etc., have power over which other groups. Nothing else matters. All literature, indeed, is about that. Everything in the past is about that one thing.

Bill Lind on the origins of political correctness.

Edited April 7, 2008 by Brain Candy

[charter.rights]

I see... so you are, straight faced, comparing slavery with a modern day newspaper delivery boy?

And you think that is valid?

Why do people (like me) even bother to respond to you?

It is as relevant in todays society as slavery was in days gone by. We try to imagine that we are free of inequity and fair minded, when in fact we have merely traded one form of oppression for another. Our jobs and responsibilities as parents are to nurture our children and protect them from the exploitation of others. Yet many fail on those accounts choosing to invest their children without their consent into all kinds of for-profit enterprises. And the rest of society condones their exploitation by attending conferences or accepting that menial jobs are fit for child labour, all the while corporations and parents reap the benefits.

I too would like to know why you bother to respond when you really have nothing to say, or debate.

[Wilber]

Nothing wrong with a kid learning that they can get ahead if they work and probably won't if they don't. Actually that is a responsibility all parents should try to instill in them. When I was a kid, it was the ones with the paper routes or other jobs who generally had the stuff other kids wanted. Because they earned it, not because they were entitled.

[Drea]

Paperroutes don't pay well.

So what.

It's not about how much money a kid can rake in but teaching them committment and dedication.

Life is about working -- if you don't work you can't live (very comfortably) so one of the most important lessons to teach your children is the value of committment and hard work.

My kid has had his paperroute for four years and was able to save up and buy his own computer (and leave mine alone!)

He is now saving for a Wii -- when he gets halfway there I will kick in the rest.

When a kid is simply given everything he wants he has no respect for it.

Edited April 7, 2008 by Drea