Happy Anniversary Iraq!

[Regulus de Leo]

Excellent observation..the fault (if any) goes back to at least the 1990's, when 55 year old laws were swept away to permit banks to enter the equities markets and insurance business. President Bush had to clean up Mr. Clinton's Enron disaster.

Can you explain further? I'm not a commerce person.

[bush_cheney2004]

Can you explain further? I'm not a commerce person.

Nor am I, but in a nutshell, the long existing financial firewall between American banks and equities/insurance markets was systematically dismantled. Unsecured debt....indeed speculation on unsecured debt..soared. And it was not without warning that these risks were taken.

Here is an example from PBS News Hour archives:

...banking regulators and the courts have chipped away at the walls separating banking from other financial services. In the 1980s, the Federal Reserve gave the largest banks permission to trade securities on Wall Street on a limited basis. In 1997, federal regulators allowed Bankers Trust, a commercial bank, to buy investment firm Alex Brown. And last year, banking powerhouse Citicorp merged with Travelers, an insurance and investment giant. Under the existing barriers, however, the new conglomerate will have to sell off its insurance business. At the merger announcement, Travelers CEO Sanford Weill appealed to Congress to undo the Depression-era restrictions on banking in order to help American financial companies compete overseas.

...the insurance barrier was removed by Congress in 1999.

Edited March 19, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[gc1765]

And just for laughs: Link

I think he must have confused "weeks" with "years", and "months" with "decades"...

[Brain Candy]

Historically occupations of countries which have a healthy amount of people willing to strap a bomb to themselves fail in the long run. Its too hard to keep track of enemies when they basically are the general population; unless they are really ready to be cruel the invaders realize it just isnt worth the cost and wander off.

So what is going to matter is how fast the Iraqi military could be up and running, and if the country needs to be divided for the different muslim sects do it now at the heightened risk of Iran invading.

Edited March 20, 2008 by Brain Candy

[oreodontist]

Bush is an incompetent ass but the American President can neither take the country to war or have much impact on the economy without the approval of the people (Congress). The Congress is not subservient to the President but in recent years been a gutless bunch of A-holes.

I'm in the Pat Buchanan camp when it comes to assessing Bush...Pat calls him a one man wrecking ball who has destroyed the imageof the USA. Unfortunately a lot of conservatives still suport Bush because he is a Republican and not because of any belief in conservatism. Bush, in fact, has been almost the antithesis of a conservative in foreign policy and fiscal responsibility.

The Democrats will win the Presidency and the Senate and H of R's in 2008 elections. They will make big gains. So-called conservatives supporting the idiocy of the Iraq war will ensure a massive Republican defeat. When Bush stands up and says on balance that the Iraq war has been a positve then he is either a liar or more stupid than he even comes across. When Republicans don't call him out on such an idiotic statement then they are enduring a big loss in the November elections. The Dems will win 59 to 41% of the vote....way more Dems and independents will make the effort to vote. Mccain is offering more of the same idiocy on Iraq and the party will go down the toilet.

Unfortunately the Iraq insanity will toss out the Republicans and bring more control of the economy by the government. Conservatives are throwing away control of the economy to the Dems because of a ridiculous support for Iraq policy.

Edited March 20, 2008 by oreodontist

[bush_cheney2004]

The Democrats will win the Presidency and the Senate and H of R's in 2008 elections. They will make big gains. So-called conservatives supporting the idiocy of the Iraq war will ensure a massive Republican defeat....

Sure...the Democrats have never led the USA into wars [/sarcasm].

Unfortunately the Iraq insanity will toss out the Republicans and bring more control of the economy by the government. Conservatives are throwing away control of the economy to the Dems because of a ridiculous support for Iraq policy.

The Iraq policy has been consistent since 1991. I think there was Democratic control of both the White House and Congress somewhere during that time. They even managed to attack other countries besides Iraq.

[GostHacked]

The Iraq war is old news in terms of debacles derived from Bush's total incompetence. The economy is the new debacle.

The hurting economy can be largely attributed to the missmanagement of funds for Iraq. Pallets of money missing in the beginning to help pay for the salaries of new Iraqi government members. 80 Million here, 100 million there on top of the allocated budget for the war.

There was a surplus of cash at the end of the Clinton administration. Now there is close to 3 trillion in debt right now in the US. The devalued dollar is a cause of this overspending. You have investment banks going tits up because of missmanaged funds.

It is all connected. The economy is connected with the war and the US's ability to fight it. Hard to fight terror when you are worried about going bankrupt. Foreign investors will want to start pulling out of the US, leaving the US to buy back those foreign investments. How can you pay back investments when you are in debt?

One bad move leads to another. But don't bother to make a connection at all.

Also Buffycat, please read your posts before you decide to post. Don't play into the namecalling game. There are other and better ways to beat types like Bush_cheney.

[Oleg Bach]

The hurting economy can be largely attributed to the missmanagement of funds for Iraq. Pallets of money missing in the beginning to help pay for the salaries of new Iraqi government members. 80 Million here, 100 million there on top of the allocated budget for the war.

There was a surplus of cash at the end of the Clinton administration. Now there is close to 3 trillion in debt right now in the US. The devalued dollar is a cause of this overspending. You have investment banks going tits up because of missmanaged funds.

It is all connected. The economy is connected with the war and the US's ability to fight it. Hard to fight terror when you are worried about going bankrupt. Foreign investors will want to start pulling out of the US, leaving the US to buy back those foreign investments. How can you pay back investments when you are in debt?

One bad move leads to another. But don't bother to make a connection at all.

Also Buffycat, please read your posts before you decide to post. Don't play into the namecalling game. There are other and better ways to beat types like Bush_cheney.

The words of the surrogate puppet our sweet Mr. Boshe - or is that Bush...are very telling and show the adventurist mentality of this second rate imperialist and his handlers and speech writers. He said, to para phrase..."Iraq lasted longer than expected..with a greater lost of life and "Treasure"...yes the little pirate referes to wasted or shall I say stolen American tax dollars as treasure. I hope what I just said is not name calling but the cabin boy Bush who speaks for Cheney is acting and speaking like a lieing privateer granted licience by himself to plunder and rape this ancient and cultured nation of Iraq...it is as if the rape victim lasted longer than expected and the villians are becoming weary in their sodomy of a people.

[bush_cheney2004]

...It is all connected. The economy is connected with the war and the US's ability to fight it. Hard to fight terror when you are worried about going bankrupt. Foreign investors will want to start pulling out of the US, leaving the US to buy back those foreign investments. How can you pay back investments when you are in debt?

Yea...I wonder how the Americans did it during WW2 with 100% deficits?

Also Buffycat, please read your posts before you decide to post. Don't play into the namecalling game. There are other and better ways to beat types like Bush_cheney.

Not with posts like this one.

[Oleg Bach]

Yea...I wonder how the Americans did it during WW2 with 100% deficits?

Not with posts like this one.

I will stay off topic as usuall..Harpers committment to prolong our useless and costly struggle in Afghanistan...and I mean he forcast the end of the mess years from now...well - who is benefiting from this mess in Iraq and Afghanistan? It's clear that those who have war supplies contracts...weapons etc..not to mention the thousands of companies owned by a few creeps that give support to the conflict...seems that the "war" is being extended because the friends of Cheney and now Harper have frimly become addicted to the huge profit taking that occurs from this lucrative and fraudulent venture....not a good enough reason to keep killing our own and others..just to keep some rich old guys amuzed and loaded up with more money the crazy wackos don't really need...Greed is a powerful mental illness and our dear Harper does what he is told.

[HisSelf]

I saw an interesting bit on the BBC the other night. Your intrepid BBC reporter was stumping around (Basrah, I think) and, with British armored vehicles zooming around in the background, interviewed a handul of local Iraqis. "How has your life changed since the invasion?" they were asked. "Very little." was the answer.

Also of interest is the cost of the war. The figures vary wildly but the US Administration seems to be willing to own up to 800 billion, while a recent book by Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stieglitz, puts it at 3 trillion. For thos of you who have trouble grasping that number here is what it looks like: 3,000,000,000,000. There are about 30 million people in Iraq, so if you were to figure out the cost per Iraqi, it comes to $100,000. As one commentator put it, you could buy a lot of peace for $100,000 per Iraqi. If you were an Iraqi, you'd probably be dumbfounded. Even if you take the US Administration's number, you are talking over $25K per Iraqi. Not chump change to an Iraqi, to be sure.

Was it all worth it? Well maybe if the US is willing to stay there as long as it did in Germany and Japan after WWII. But then, a lot more countries had a lot more at stake in that adventure. Just the fact that even the Brits are pulling out of Iraq tells you that things are not the saem in Iraq.

[Carinthia]

The U.S. has sunk 47 billion dollars into re building Iraq's infrastructure and currently the U.S. is on the verge of a depression.

When McCain is elected, he will not only have a war to keep sinking money into, he will also have a failed economy to deal with. As he has little experience in economics (by his own admission) but tons when it comes to war, it will be interesting to hear all the whining that will take place a couple of years from now.

Edited March 20, 2008 by Carinthia

[bush_cheney2004]

The U.S. has sunk 47 billion dollars into re building Iraq's infrastructure and currently the U.S. is on the verge of a depression.

Nonsense....if the USA is "on the verge" of a depression (whatever that means), then Canada is not far behind. Enjoy the ride.

When McCain is elected, he will not only have a war to keep sinking money into, he will also have a failed economy to deal with. As he has little experience in economics (by his own admission) but tons when it comes to war, it will be interesting to hear all the whining that will take place a couple of years from now.

All part of the job description.

[Regulus de Leo]

The U.S. has sunk 47 billion dollars into re building Iraq's infrastructure and currently the U.S. is on the verge of a depression.

You make those points as if they were related. How are they related?

[Carinthia]

Nonsense....if the USA is "on the verge" of a depression (whatever that means), then Canada is not far behind. Enjoy the ride.

All part of the job description.

I believe depression means something about standing in line for soup, as well as watching store owners pour milk down the drain because they can't sell it to people who have no money.

You enjoy the ride!

[Shady]

I believe depression means something about standing in line for soup, as well as watching store owners pour milk down the drain because they can't sell it to people who have no money.

You enjoy the ride!

I respectfully disagree. The current economic situation has very little to do with any spending in Iraq, and almost entirely based on the sub-prime mortgage situation/housing market problems.

And remember. After all of the negative economic news over the last several months, the American unemployment rate is still at 5%. 5% people! During the depression, unemployment rates soared to 25+ percent. Even a deep recession wouldn't push the unemployment rate past 10%.

[Carinthia]

I respectfully disagree. The current economic situation has very little to do with any spending in Iraq, and almost entirely based on the sub-prime mortgage situation/housing market problems.

Point well taken. The U.S. is trillions of dollars in dept. Why were U.S lending insitutions allowed to rob it's own citizens? Why is the improvement of U.S. infrastucture being ignored? The revenues that are normally gained from War, only seem to be fattening the coffers of the big corporatons who are contracted to the cause. Perhaps my analysis is over simplistic.

[capricorn]

When McCain is elected, he will not only have a war to keep sinking money into, he will also have a failed economy to deal with. As he has little experience in economics (by his own admission) but tons when it comes to war, it will be interesting to hear all the whining that will take place a couple of years from now.

That's why I hope he picks Romney as his running mate. What McCain lacks in economics acumen, I think Romney can deliver. IMO, of course.

[capricorn]

I respectfully disagree. The current economic situation has very little to do with any spending in Iraq, and almost entirely based on the sub-prime mortgage situation/housing market problems.

And remember. After all of the negative economic news over the last several months, the American unemployment rate is still at 5%. 5% people! During the depression, unemployment rates soared to 25+ percent. Even a deep recession wouldn't push the unemployment rate past 10%.

Why must you always interject with logic?

[BubberMiley]

Why must you always interject with logic?

Or, at least, quaint optimism.

[HisSelf]

It is interesting to look at how the Iraq war has been funded - by selling debt to foreign interests, most particularly to China, and the Middle East. Tibet watchers take note. This is in fact the first time that the US has funded a war in this manner since it borrowed from the French to pay for the revolution (yes folks, enjoy those Freedom Fries).

The result has been a progressive devaluation of the US dollar. Imagine the extraordinary amount of debt it would take to devalue the US dollar as much as it has. Not to say that this has an altogether bad outcome for the US. It certainly makes US producers more competitive in the world marketplace - as long as the world marketplace doesn't fall flat on its butt, of course.

The upside of this of course is that when you have creditors as powerful as these, nobody is going to let your currency fail completely, and in fact nobody is going to be very happy to see it fall. A lot of US debt has been sold to fund this war, and the result has been a restructuring of the world's economy.

The sub-prime market meltdown is indeed a dangerous development because it places a huge strain on confidence in debt, and debt is the oil that has greased the US economy for a long, long time. If the world banking community hads not acted, the odds are very good that a severe recession and perhaps a depression would have been close at hand. Coming as it does in the environment of massive international debt over the Iraq war, it would probably have completely broken the world economy, so I'd say depression would be more likely than recession.

[sharkman]

Whatever the US economic situation HisSelf, I think you are giving too much credit to the Iraq war. Presently, the US is spending 12 billion a month on the war, or about 144 billion for the 2008 year, which is small potatoes for the US. And I understand this is at a higher rate than in the war's earlier years.

Whatever the case, however, the US seems to be facing some tough years ahead, and us Canadians as well since we do about 80% of our exports there.

[bush_cheney2004]

Whatever the US economic situation HisSelf, I think you are giving too much credit to the Iraq war. Presently, the US is spending 12 billion a month on the war, or about 144 billion for the 2008 year, which is small potatoes for the US. And I understand this is at a higher rate than in the war's earlier years.

Correct....the US federal budget is about $3 trillion per year. The Iraq war may be fun to blame for partisan reasons, but domestic social programs cost much more.....and are also financed by foreign interests. Yet we probably won't read about that perspective.

Whatever the case, however, the US seems to be facing some tough years ahead, and us Canadians as well since we do about 80% of our exports there.

Correct again....some should be careful what they wish for.

[HisSelf]

Whatever the US economic situation HisSelf, I think you are giving too much credit to the Iraq war. Presently, the US is spending 12 billion a month on the war, or about 144 billion for the 2008 year, which is small potatoes for the US. And I understand this is at a higher rate than in the war's earlier years.

Whatever the case, however, the US seems to be facing some tough years ahead, and us Canadians as well since we do about 80% of our exports there.

The argument that Stieglitz et al are making is that the number depends on how you work the accounting system. What you say might be true if you accept the acconting system of the guys who are supposed to be accountable - the government. This is not always the best way to arrive at the truth and it is an old Wall Street issue. There are my accountant's numbers and then there are your accountant's numbers... I'd say, given the history of the Bush administration, a good audit would be in order. I sure as hell wouldn't by a used car from the guy. Would you?

Edited March 22, 2008 by HisSelf

[HisSelf]

In other words, wake up and smell the roses, Bubba. China and the Arabs own your ass and George Bush is the guy who sold it to them.

As Murrow once said, 'Good night and good luck.'

Edited March 22, 2008 by HisSelf