What went wrong for Hillary Clinton?

[August1991]

This is a good video clip.

And here's a good column:

WHEN people one day look back at the remarkable implosion of the Hillary Clinton campaign, they may notice that it both began and ended in the long dark shadow of Iraq.

It’s not just that her candidacy’s central premise — the priceless value of “experience” — was fatally poisoned from the start by her still ill-explained vote to authorize the fiasco. Senator Clinton then compounded that 2002 misjudgment by pursuing a 2008 campaign strategy that uncannily mimicked the disastrous Bush Iraq war plan. After promising a cakewalk to the nomination — “It will be me,” Mrs. Clinton told Katie Couric in November — she was routed by an insurgency.

The Clinton camp was certain that its moneyed arsenal of political shock-and-awe would take out Barack Hussein Obama in a flash. The race would “be over by Feb. 5,” Mrs. Clinton assured George Stephanopoulos just before New Year’s. But once the Obama forces outwitted her, leaving her mission unaccomplished on Super Tuesday, there was no contingency plan. She had neither the boots on the ground nor the money to recoup.

NYT

Fore myself, I just don't exactly. I think she could have won this and indeed she should have. When it comes right down to it, Democrats would prefer a Black man to a White woman. As she said herself, Hillary reminds many men (and women) of their worst female boss. And a bad male boss is just a bad boss. But a bad female boss is a bad female boss.

[Carinthia]

This is a good video clip.

And here's a good column:NYT

Fore myself, I just don't exactly. I think she could have won this and indeed she should have. When it comes right down to it, Democrats would prefer a Black man to a White woman. As she said herself, Hillary reminds many men (and women) of their worst female boss. And a bad male boss is just a bad boss. But a bad female boss is a bad female boss.

For me, I think what did her in was that first "sit down" debate. Her demeaner was God awful. She showed outward disdain for Obama and her facial expressions were bordering on hatred and anger when she looked over at him. I'm a Canuck and only an observer, but I will say that I was sitting on the fence up until that debate. As a female, I would love nothing more than to see a female President. It wouldn't have mattered to me who her opponent was, I would not have voted for her after that. Big, big mistake to have exibited such a lack of self control with her emotions. To add to this, Obama has displayed complete control over his. Had he not done that, it would still be a toss up.

It's not over yet though...who knows what will happen next Tuesday.

Edited February 26, 2008 by Carinthia

[August1991]

As a female, I would love nothing more than to see a female President. It wouldn't have mattered to me who her opponent was, I would not have voted for her after that. Big, big mistake to have exibited such a lack of self control with her emotions.

Other key moments were the reference to Martin Luther King Jr and Lyndon Johnson about who accomplished civil rights and then Bill Clinton's reference to Obama and fantasyland.

The Clintons haven't had an easy time in this campaign. It's as if the media is angry about Monica Lewinsky and the impeachment saga and all that. It's finally caught up with them

I have the impression that both women and men are harder on female politicians than male politicians. Hillary has been a lightning rod for many people's anger (while at the same time Obama has somehow managed to channel everyone's hopes and ideals.)

[Carinthia]

It's as if the media is angry about Monica Lewinsky and the impeachment saga and all that. It's finally caught up with them

I have the impression that both women and men are harder on female politicians than male politicians.

I was just thinking the other day, that perhaps her real quest is to get Bill back into the Whitehouse out of spite, as she seems to have always thought that the Rebuplicans concocted a conspiracy to impeach her husband. She appears to have had more bitterness towards them for admonishing his actions than to him for his own actions.

I'm not sure if we are all harder on women politicians but I sure don't like it when a woman politician blatently acts "scorned".

Edited February 26, 2008 by Carinthia

[kimmy]

Philosophically I'd like to see a woman become US President someday (or even Canada's Prime Minister, for that matter) but was never especially enchanted with Hilary.

With that now unlikely to happen for Hilary, I don't know when we'll next see a woman get this close. I'm not even aware of any women who might have the right combination of profile and popularity and placement to take a run at it. If Hilary couldn't do it, it might be a long time before a woman actually succeeds.

Perhaps it is naive of me, but I would like to think it is largely just a matter of Obama being the better candidate. I don't think Hilary is too old, but Obama is younger. I don't think Hilary lacks charisma, but Obama clearly has a lot more.

I read that Obama won the 2004 Illinois senatorial candidacy in the same way: arriving in the race as an underdog, but building momentum to take the nomination away from better known, better funded, heavily favored (male) opponents just as he has now done to Hilary. He seems to have a gift for this line of work.

Perhaps there was some amount of gender bias (coverage of her "emotional outburst" in particular) and perhaps the Clinton name played into it in various ways, but I don't think any of this cost her the race so much as being up against a guy who just seems to be really good at this. I think that if she were running against a stiff like John Kerry, she could have had this thing locked up long ago.

-k

[BubberMiley]

I think it's very difficult for a woman to find the happy medium between appearing strong enough to be commander in chief but likable enough to not be perceived as a "bitch." From the debates, Hillary actually seems very likable at times (or "likable enough"), and I think her poll numbers go up when she shows this side of her character. But she entered the campaign emphasizing how she is no pushover, and ultimately that might have been what killed her.

[buffycat]

So, no one thinks that Hillary's drop in popularity has nothing to do with her ties to organised crime, murderers and thugs, along with the oh so many questionable donations to her ubercampaign??

[Leafless]

Why Hillary appeared to have failed?

Her impersonation has an Evangelistic preacher is not quite as good as Obama's.

[buffycat]

Why Hillary appeared to have failed?

Her impersonation has an Evangelistic preacher is not quite as good as Obama's.

LOL

[oreodontist]

There were about 18 'hopefuls' in the two parties about 2 years ago. 15 men are gone so I don't think it's the 'female' variable.

Never in my time has a candidate had more advantage from the beginning. There was no potential real competition, except for Gore, two years ago. So Hillary has lost it more than anyone else has taken it.

I can't stand the lady but I think she'd make a decent president. She's a cold calculating machine but those same traits might be assets. She's aware of the pitfalls of the office, has seen it from the inside for 8 years....seen 8 more years of Bush incompetency. she's smart and would do an OK job....at least not make bonehead decisions (like Iraqinam).

she is the master of her own destiny. No matter how well Obama, Edwars had done, it was up to her to win or lose. she blew it. There was a smug assumption that the troops would line up behind her that they 'owed' it to her. Unfortunately for her, in a democracy nobody owes anyone their support. Right now she's desperate and Clinton bag of tricks isn't working.

[BC_chick]

Let's see, she couldn't keep her campaign focussed and she is a very divisive figure, sure. But in a way, she didn't lose as much as Obama won. People just seem to like him. A lot.

[August1991]

I think it's very difficult for a woman to find the happy medium between appearing strong enough to be commander in chief but likable enough to not be perceived as a "bitch."

Bubbler, I think you touched the key point.

The last time a woman came close, Gerladine Ferraro, everyone dumped on her too.

For every 'presidential' and 'charismatic' bestowed on Barack Obama, there are 10 adjectives commentators have used to put down the way Hillary Clinton dresses, talks and emotes. Call this what it is – blatant sexism

Guess what they call powerful and strong women who support Barack Obama? Obamazons. And what about powerful women who support Hillary Clinton? In Hillaryland, they're probably too damn tired, mystified and disappointed to care all that much about cutesy names.

A week before the Texas and Ohio primaries, the political obituaries are already being prepared – perhaps still prematurely – on Ms. Clinton's presidential bid.

I wonder if they will include the ugly truth that sexism has played a disturbing role in this riveting primary campaign.

There are certainly legitimate reasons not to like Ms. Clinton, but that doesn't explain the very different treatment she has received in the media. While grown media men and women have swooned over Mr. Obama, confessing that he is so charismatic he gives them goosebumps, Ms. Clinton has been mocked, trivialized and denigrated in a way that should give every woman pause.

...

MSNBC's Chris Matthews even called Ms. Clinton an “uppity woman.” Imagine any commentator calling Mr. Obama an “uppity black” and keeping his job.

Judith Timson

Obama's already had a few get out of jail free cards and Hillary's husband had a suitcase full of them. But Hillary hasn't caught a break at all. (Don't get me wrong. I'm no fan of Hillary.)

But no one in the media would dare call Obama an "uppity black" and yet that's the exact perception many have of Hillary.

It's sad in a way that some female voters will swoon before a male politician like Obama or JFK but it's unthinkable that any male voter would ever be inclined to vote for a female politician based on sex appeal. Hillary's high negatives are not based on her husband or her positions on issues.

Edited February 27, 2008 by August1991

[kimmy]

Bubbler, I think you touched the key point.

The last time a woman came close, Gerladine Ferraro, everyone dumped on her too.

Judith Timson

Obama's already had a few get out of jail free cards and Hillary's husband had a suitcase full of them. But Hillary hasn't caught a break at all. (Don't get me wrong. I'm no fan of Hillary.)

But no one in the media would dare call Obama an "uppity black" and yet that's the exact perception many have of Hillary.

It's sad in a way that some female voters will swoon before a male politician like Obama or JFK but it's unthinkable that any male voter would ever be inclined to vote for a female politician based on sex appeal. Hillary's high negatives are not based on her husband or her positions on issues.

Perhaps I have not followed the coverage of this race enough to pick up on the tone of the media towards Hilary. I no longer watch US "talking head" TV programs, and no longer have the time to watch Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, or Letterman/Leno. (I am guessing Stewart or Leno made the White Bitch Month remark.)

A few years ago when Belinda.ca was running for Conservative leadership, I wrote bitterly and angrily about the way she was treated by the Canadian media: the meticulous study of her clothes and hair, the speculation about which single eligible bachelors in Parliament would be a good romantic match, innuendos about her "friendship" with Bill Clinton, wink wink nudge nudge, Parliament Barbie cartoons, and so on. (I am sure that inventive searching could unearth that thread even after several years.) You yourself, August, dismissed my complaint saying that "she's a lightweight." She may well have been, but I can't imagine a male lightweight would have been given such demeaning coverage.

From the article you've posted, it seems as though Hilary has experienced problems along a similar line.

-k

{I keep referring to her as Hilary rather than Clinton... I suppose because I think Clinton still means Bill, even after all this time.}

[Borg]

Two things did her in - in no particular order:

1. She married and supported Billy boy. Remember "We are the President!" ????

2. She has never lost her "sense of entitlement" and makes no effort to hide it.

Borg

[M.Dancer]

I think it's too early to count her out. Little blunders from Obama like failing to repudiate Farrakhan's endorsement will whittle away at what ever support he has.

Eitherway I doubt either will take up sleeping at the White house.

[Carinthia]

But no one in the media would dare call Obama an "uppity black" and yet that's the exact perception many have of Hillary.

Last night during the debate on MSNBC, Hillary recounted some positives to having a woman President. As the talking heads pointed out after, can we all imagine what would happen if Obama had pointed out the positives of having a black President? They both have their own crosses to bear.

[Topaz]

As far for how the people think of her I think its about being a Clinton and how they destroyed the inside of th White House when they left. All the news that has come out about both of them and about Bill's friendship with daddy Bush back in the days when he was governor and the activities that they partnered. The Bush's and the Clinton's can't be trust and so you have McCain and Obama.

[Moonlight Graham]

Hillary is a crappy speaker. She comes across as insincere. But in any other year she could have easily overcome that. The main thing is that Obama is just better. He's the most exciting Presidential hopeful to come along in decades. He is Hillary with more credibility & vision and less foul stench of Washington & lobbyists.

[Rue]

For me, I think what did her in was that first "sit down" debate. Her demeaner was God awful. She showed outward disdain for Obama and her facial expressions were bordering on hatred and anger when she looked over at him. I'm a Canuck and only an observer, but I will say that I was sitting on the fence up until that debate. As a female, I would love nothing more than to see a female President. It wouldn't have mattered to me who her opponent was, I would not have voted for her after that. Big, big mistake to have exibited such a lack of self control with her emotions. To add to this, Obama has displayed complete control over his. Had he not done that, it would still be a toss up.

It's not over yet though...who knows what will happen next Tuesday.

I agree with you 100%. Let's face it Obama is the better visual player and orator. He has one of JFK's speechwiters. His candence when he speaks is based on carefully studying the tones of JFK and Martin Luther King. It is not an accident he speaks like a gospel preacher.

If you turn the sound off and watch the physical and non verbal gestures of McCain, Obama and Hilary it becomes very evident what you said-precisely what you said. If it has to be summarized in one word for her it would be "severe".

Severe appearances do not strike a cord with Americans. Its not an accident most of their politicians who do well do not speak or appear severe.

Obama as a small little boy head and a skinny feminine body so as much as he has the JFK-Martin Luther King tone of delivery down pat, he physically does not scare even if his words can be intense.

The grand-father optics of McCain also look. He can be quite severe, in fact no different then Hilary, but he looks like everyone's grandfather or the classic football coach and America likes both. No one feels threatened if their grand-dad or the coach is gruff because they know they are also nice when we do well.

Hilary has some bad optics; bulging eyes, wrinkled sucked in lips, rolling eyes, clencehd fists, narrowed eye brows, a clumsy forced heavy walk, a smile that looks forced.

The candence of Obama is the preacher who sings hope but with the same up and up and up raising even higher song delibery which then breaks out in a rousing uniform chorus then slowly comes down again.

With Hilary there is no loop to the sound. It stays flat, unaffected, monotone but with a tone of anger and impatience -the annoying sound of someone who feels people are not listening to her and who she does not respect anyways.

Obama is very much the Oprah Winfrey book of the month. This year's trend. But unlike McCain who has no shelf life since he is already dry-Obama is perishable. His tone is not dry-its wet-it brings tears so it can shrivel out and dehydrate wherewas unlike a fruit turning into a raisin, McCain is like that peanut. He has a hard shell to crack but always constant once you get into it and taste it. Both work. One is the pea-nut at the ball game we eat, the other the apple we all learned to eat but apples have to stay crisp and can't get soggy. No one has such expectations with peanuts.

Hilary is boiled mashed potatoes. she's cafeteria food plopped on a plate and served on a tray. Oh we all know it. It always sounds like "Glop". Its coems downheavy and even if it looks fluffy just like her body.

To me Hilary was in trouble when I saw her female supporters physically leaning away from her particularly when she touched them or spoke with them close. Not a good sign. If a woman does not allow another woman to get close to her and touch her-that is not good.

I could see having a beer with McCain and talking sports or having him coach me. Obama is the doctor or lawyer I would want. Hilary? She is the angry nun-nurse coming in to shave me and give me an enema.

There's just something about her that looks like she's gonna cause bleeding or leakage and embarassement and make sure to leave the curtain open so everyone walking by can see.

I want my nurse to look like Jennifer Lopez or Halle Berry or Angie Harmon or maybe for fun Amy Winehouse provided she washed her hands first.

[kimmy]

I could see having a beer with McCain and talking sports or having him coach me. Obama is the doctor or lawyer I would want. Hilary? She is the angry nun-nurse coming in to shave me and give me an enema.

There's just something about her that looks like she's gonna cause bleeding or leakage and embarassement and make sure to leave the curtain open so everyone walking by can see.

I want my nurse to look like Jennifer Lopez or Halle Berry or Angie Harmon or maybe for fun Amy Winehouse provided she washed her hands first.

(I wouldn't let Nurse Amy get anywhere close unless she took a breathalyzer test first...)

I kind of agree with a lot of your assessment of Hilary's mannerisms, but in this last bit, aren't you kind of restating the old feminist complaint that we're comfortable with male authority figures and uncomfortable with female ones?

Successful male politicians remind people of admired and trusted figures... female politicians remind people of a schoolmarm, or a nurse, or of mom or grandma. Not that people don't love mom or grandma, but do any of us picture mom or grandma as leader of the free world?

What would a hypothetical female President actually look like?

Would she be young and attractive like Belinda Stronach, Rona Ambrose, or the like?

Older and not unattractive, like Kim Campbell or Barbara McDougall?

Would she be utterly lacking in sex appeal like Deborah Gray or Sheila Copps?

Probably not: it's easy to find examples of the kind of negative style-focused press that all of these women have received.

Would she look like a kindly grandmother like Ann Richards?

Nobody wants to take cracks at Grandma. Then again, nobody envisions Grandma as President, either.

The short-lived TV series "Commander in Chief" was about a female President (portrayed by Geena Davis). On the show, she'd never won election; she had been named Vice President mid-term and the President died of disease also mid-term. I don't know if the character portrayed in the show would be what people might picture a female president to look and act like (I suspect in real life, she'd face the same prejudices as Belinda Stronach.) I believe there was a movie made about a female presidential candidate... it was called "Hitler's Daughter" or something to that effect...

I think that Margaret Thatcher's picture is in the dictionary next to the word "severe", yet she's the only woman who has risen to power in any of the Western nations. How did she accomplish it?

-k

[White Doors]

What would a hypothetical female President actually look like?

Margaret Thatcher

[M.Dancer]

Margaret Thatcher

Golda Meyer

[jbg]

The Clintons haven't had an easy time in this campaign. It's as if the media is angry about Monica Lewinsky and the impeachment saga and all that. It's finally caught up with them

Even during the "Bill era" I've always felt Hilary was more of a liability, politically, than an asset to Bill. What made Bill attractive was his centrist "New Democrat" policies. He recognized, correctly, in 1986 when he formed the Democratic Leadership Council that the Democrats would keep on losing at the polls with left-wing policies.

Bill recognized that the average, paycheck drawing American who lives more than 40 Trudeau Units from Times Square of Girardelli Square (San Fransisco) has no truck with "elite issues" like global warming. In no way was Hilary associated with the New Democrats. To most people she's just another shrill, dime-a-dozen left-wingers who think they know better than the people themselves how to run their lives.

Just my $0.02.

[buffycat]

There is an interesting video making the rounds:

The Clinton Chronicles

If even HALF of what is in this is true (released I think in 1995) it is pretty frikin' daming!!

Why would the Americans even want another crime family in charge?? Bush Clinton, bush clinton - and on and on.

ugh.

[Argus]

Nothing to do with Black and White. Nothing to do with male or female. I've said it before and I've never been proven wrong.

The folksy guy wins.

Bill Clinton was a folksy guy. That was why he won. George Bush too. Their opponents were stiff and stilted speakers nobody really felt any emotional warmth for or from.

Obama is a charismatic guy, a great speaker. Hillary is a cold fish no one has ever liked - probably not even Bill. The fact no one thinks there's a sincere bone in her body doesn't help, of course.