Conservatives bringing back death penalty for Canadians abroad

[noahbody]

There is no plan to bring this particular convicted criminal. Never was.

The idea had been discussed with the Montana governor.

Schweitzer said Smith already has served more than 20 years in prison, and a life sentence in Canada is only 25 years.

“If we were to send him back to Canada, for example, then he'd be turned loose shortly after he arrived there,” Schweitzer said. “So those are some of the discussions that I've actually had with them.

[sharkman]

Even the National Post editorial says this should have gone to Parliament first. Instead the government has made a unilateral decision on the death penalty.

That's quite funny how you quote the National Post when they disagree with the Tories, but never when they agree with them. Could you by chance be cherry picking your quotes? Or am I bashing you again?

In any government, it will be impossible to please all of the people all of the time.

[jdobbin]

That's quite funny how you quote the National Post when they disagree with the Tories, but never when they agree with them. Could you by chance be cherry picking your quotes? Or am I bashing you again?

In any government, it will be impossible to please all of the people all of the time.

I have quoted the National Post in many contexts including where they have been critical of Liberal policy. In one thread I agreed with their editorial where they said the Liberals were wrong on campaigning to eliminate the GST.

For something as important as a change in policy on the death penalty, it should go before all Parliamentarians. It has been the policy of previous Liberal and Tory governments since 1976. It deserves a debate in the House. Why can't that happen?

[sharkman]

Ah, but the vast majority of your usage of the Post has been for cherry picking purposes, but keep reading it, they do have many good conservative ideas.

It's not a change in policy on the death penalty. Again, it's a decision not to spend hard earned taxpayer dollars on those criminals who are STUPID enough to murder or whatever in foreign countries that have the death penaty.

If you can't do the time, then don't do the crime. Plain and simple.

[Higgly]

Does anybody remember the case of the Ianiero's? A couple murdered in a Mexican hotel.

The Mexican police wanted to extradict a couple of females from Thunder Bay who had never met the victims. If Canadian authorities had not stepped in, they would probably have been railroaded by the Mexican police to cover up their own malfeasance or incompetence.

Does this ring a bell?

[jdobbin]

Ah, but the vast majority of your usage of the Post has been for cherry picking purposes, but keep reading it, they do have many good conservative ideas.

It's not a change in policy on the death penalty. Again, it's a decision not to spend hard earned taxpayer dollars on those criminals who are STUPID enough to murder or whatever in foreign countries that have the death penaty.

If you can't do the time, then don't do the crime. Plain and simple.

I doubt you read the majority of my posts but the accusation of cherry picking is an old one: sort of like the claim that I only post polls favourable to the Liberals. I post all the polls with all the links.

I am partisan and admit that. I think Harper is wrong on numerous policies and write on those subjects. However, you are just as partisan as a right winger in support of Harper and cherry pick to show the worst in the Opposition that you can find.

As for your contention that it is not a change of policy on the death penalty: you're wrong. The policy of the Canadian government since 1976 has been to advocate for commuting of death penalties for Canadians wherever they are in the world. The Tories are running from that debate.

[guyser]

Does anybody remember the case of the Ianiero's? A couple murdered in a Mexican hotel.

Yes and many others too.

The CDN govt has always gone to bat for canucks on death row or serious crimes involving Canadians.

Well until now when it was decided that as a country we shouldn't.

[sharkman]

I have quoted the National Post in many contexts including where they have been critical of Liberal policy. In one thread I agreed with their editorial where they said the Liberals were wrong on campaigning to eliminate the GST.

Here is Dr dobbin claiming to be non-partisan.

I see you are still wrong about the death penalty. We have no death penalty in Canada, dobbin. I am relieved, however, that our government will not be spending hard earned taxpayer dollars on Canadian criminals so stupid to be committing crimes worthy of death in other countries.

Maybe you could start a liberal fund on saving Canadian criminals.

Edited November 8, 2007 by sharkman

[noahbody]

Does anybody remember the case of the Ianiero's? A couple murdered in a Mexican hotel.

The Mexican police wanted to extradict a couple of females from Thunder Bay who had never met the victims. If Canadian authorities had not stepped in, they would probably have been railroaded by the Mexican police to cover up their own malfeasance or incompetence.

Does this ring a bell?

A relevant case would be that of Huseyin Celil. Harper going to bat for someone facing the death penalty. And getting criticized for it.

[jdobbin]

Here is Dr dobbin claiming to be non-partisan.

I see you are still wrong about the death penalty. We have no death penalty in Canada, dobbin. I am relieved, however, that our government will not be spending hard earned taxpayer dollars on Canadian criminals so stupid to be committing crimes worthy of death in other countries.

Maybe you could start a liberal fund on saving Canadian criminals.

I am totally partisan. I said so already.

The Tories are running from the debate on where they really stand on the death penalty and why they have changed the policy of advocating for commuting sentences for those on death row.

[sharkman]

Yes, you voted against being partisan before you voted for being partisan, kind of like the old Kerry flip flop. Tell you what, when you figure it out, let us know.

[Michael Bluth]

Yes, you voted against being partisan before you voted for being partisan, kind of like the old Kerry flip flop. Tell you what, when you figure it out, let us know.

Basically whichever side partisan or non-partisan is more convenient to be on at a given moment.

[jdobbin]

Yes, you voted against being partisan before you voted for being partisan, kind of like the old Kerry flip flop. Tell you what, when you figure it out, let us know.

I've never indicated anywhere that I wasn't partisan. Do you have a citation for that? Or are you just bashing again?

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....st&p=266989

I said so here.

[sharkman]

dobbin, if you go up this page to post #333, you will see I already provided that information. Or, if you please, you can go back further to your actual post.

[jdobbin]

dobbin, if you go up this page to post #333, you will see I already provided that information. Or, if you please, you can go back further to your actual post.

I never said I was non-partisan in that post. Where did I say that?

[Wilber]

Here is Dr dobbin claiming to be non-partisan.

I see you are still wrong about the death penalty. We have no death penalty in Canada, dobbin. I am relieved, however, that our government will not be spending hard earned taxpayer dollars on Canadian criminals so stupid to be committing crimes worthy of death in other countries.

Maybe you could start a liberal fund on saving Canadian criminals.

I've voted conservative all my life but they can't count on my vote the next time and this is one of the reasons why. How's that for non partisan?

[sharkman]

I never said I was non-partisan in that post. Where did I say that?

Says he with wide eyed innocence... You clearly infer that you have been objective with your use of quotes, which is a big one to everyone in the room except you, apparently.

You also had the gall to confront August1991 a couple days ago with the complaint that he wasn't being forthright about his bias. Yet you are regularly under the assumption that you are objective in your views, except for times like this when you are pressed on it.

Edited November 8, 2007 by sharkman

[sharkman]

I've voted conservative all my life but they can't count on my vote the next time and this is one of the reasons why. How's that for non partisan?

Hey, whatever floats your boat, I appreciate your up front honesty.

[jdobbin]

Says he with wide eyed innocence... You clearly infer that you have been objective with your use of quotes, which is a big one to everyone in the room except you, apparently.

You also had the gall to confront August1991 a couple days ago with the complaint that he wasn't being forthright about his bias. Yet you are regularly under the assumption that you are objective in your views, except for times like this when you are pressed on it.

I never said nor did I infer I was objective either. I said that I have quoted the National Post on areas where I agree with their opinion. I don't agree with all Liberal policies and the one on getting rid of the GST was one that I was opposed.

August knows I am partisan. I told him he should be forthright in his ideology as well.

My partisan view on the GST was that it should be kept and that the taxes that should be cut were income taxes. I have never agreed with getting rid of that tax and criticized the Liberals as being wrong when they said they would get rid of it. My view has been stated many times on the GST in these forums.

Edited November 8, 2007 by jdobbin

[Wilber]

Hey, whatever floats your boat, I appreciate your up front honesty.

It doesn't float my boat. It's damn dissapointing.

[myata]

A relevant case would be that of Huseyin Celil. Harper going to bat for someone facing the death penalty. And getting criticized for it.

So, our rights should be protected by the government on a case by case basis? Whenever the PM of day may judge us worthy of help?

All three incidents (policy change, not signing the convention, and the opinion poll) indeed indicate that Harpers cons do support death penalty, and as somebody pointed out, are taking deliberate incremental steps to bringing it here.

And on top of all that, their now completely unmasked contempt for public debate and democratic process. These are indeed the issues an election can be held on. Not Mr Dion's accents.

[August1991]

All three incidents (policy change, not signing the convention, and the opinion poll) indeed indicate that Harpers cons do support death penalty, and as somebody pointed out, are taking deliberate incremental steps to bringing it here.

And on top of all that, their now completely unmasked contempt for public debate and democratic process.

Why don't you also add that Harper has secret plans to install a military dictatorship too?

When will the people opposed to Harper realize that the *scary, scary* just doesn't work?

----

Without having waded through all of this thread (just some of it), it seems to me that the true issue here is whether the Canadian government should spend tax dollars defending any Canadian accused of any crime while abroad if the foreign legal process somehow differs from ours. I frankly think that other priorities are more important. Heck, the NDP wants to set up a national housing program and a national energy grid. How much money does the government have?

Of course the government has to choose.

The US is a civilized country with due process. Let's move on.

[jdobbin]

The US is a civilized country with due process. Let's move on.

Canada is a civilized country too. Debate it in Parliament rather than make a unilateral decision on something that has been policy since 1976.

[myata]

Why don't you also add that Harper has secret plans to install a military dictatorship too?

...

Let's move on.

Move on from what? The responsibility of the government to protect one of the most fundamental rights of canadians? The importance of democratic process and public debate?

And to where exactly? What issues would be of such a major importance to make these triffle matters unworthy of our attention ? Maybe, Dion's accent? Or the latest inspirational speech on how this government is clean and transparent? Couple of cents one'll routinely save on GST?

BTW to comment with substance it'd do you good to do just that: i.e. wade through the whole thread or at least most of it.

[Wilber]

Oh for stronger opposition. In many ways I think the present situation is more damaging to democracy than a majority.