GostHacked

If Bin laden is not wanted by the FBI why is he on the Most Wanted's Top Ten List as Most Wanted Terrorist? On the various bios/studies of Bin laden nowhere is it stated that Bin laden was working for the U.S. in Afghanistan. Bosnia? Really .... where, when and how? ` http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm Osama IS on the FBI's most wanted list. They really need to update the site to show and say he was behind the 9/11 attacks. You figure that information would be on the site. But no, he is only wanted for actions committed against Americans, OUTSITE of the United States. However, the CIA had disbanded the group hunting down OBL. So it is the CIA that is not very interested in OBL now, but he remains on the FBI list. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/05/...in1776250.shtml July 5, 2006. Bin Laden was working with the Muhajedeen in Afghanistan. They had US backing during the 80's and 90's to fight off the Soviets. ...................... Scriblett Is it religion? Or people that wrongly interperet the religion? Does the religion itself actually condone this kind of behaviour? Suicide bombings? If so, for how long? Cite?

ScottSA What profits? And then show me how those profits are benefitting the people of Iraq. I bet you will find the same corruption happening now as the oil for food programme was. Since Bush and his croonies are saying 'we are making progress', or 'great progress has been made' so often, you start to beleive there actually IS progress.... untill you get reports like this. I guess it is how you define progress.

Alright so this basic topic of why do 'they hate us' cannot be discussed without religion comming into play. I guess it is hard to get away from it. It's just something that has been bothering me for a couple years. They why of the hate. The fringes of Islamic followers wanting to maintain control over their population through some form of Islamic Law. Wanting to spread that everywhere. In the West there are many religions to speak of, but I will bet you most of them are Christian. A good Catholic population and the Jewish peeps. Now if in the west you replace the democratic governments with the same mentality of those Islamic fundamentalists, you will find that there is that on both sides of the fence. I find it interesting that the western society can have a seperation of church and state and never the two shall meet, but yet that is exactly how it isn't here. There really is no seperation. Islam just does not seem afraid to say it is what it is. Bear with me here. So the west has been messing with the east for centuries for resources and taking atvantage of the people they are doing business with. The east starts to get pissed because they think it is not fair that they are not getting their fair share off the stuff that is on their property. Regardless of what you consider boundries. The west takes, and money flows out of the east. The east gets poorer and poorer. Desperate times calls for desperate measures. If nothing to live for but still have the one thing no one will ever take away from you, is your religion. So much theivery is going on by the west. Wanna know why they still use donkey carts in Baghdad? The hate comes down to this, I am tired of it, and I hate the way I have been treated. Maybe what goes around comes around. Karma is a bitch I hear. The leaders also use this hate now (the east and the west) to control their populations worldview of each other. It is propagandized to making you in the west demonize those in the east. They are just dirty arabs. They are stuck in the dark ages. But there is still a religious element in the west as well as the east taking part in shaping what your worldview should be. So it is impossible to seperate the religion from the hate spewing. So it seems like nothing more than a propaganda tool in order to get at the resources. JBG, thanks for your posts, they have been interesting so far. Osama Bin-Laden is definately a religous man. How else would he have claimed the Fatwa on the West.

Considering that the hijacker would have been in the cockpit, and that the bulk of the fuel would have exploded behind the cockpit, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that the passport would have been blown through the building. Have a look at the video - lots of paper was ejected at the time of initial impact. My nephew's neighbour in Brooklyn found papers from the World Trade Center in his yard. Other material from the planes were also ejected, such as body parts of the crew. I don't know where the black boxes are located on a 767. If they were back where the fuel exploded and the fires burned, it's no surprise that they weren't recovered. Most black boxes are located in the tail of the plane. Any plane, for it is the last impact zone. The zone most likely to be intact. There is also a recorder in the cockpit too. Both are made of the same casing material, And in every other case, the boxes were recovered and intact. I don't doubt the technology had been upgraded as the years go on. Yes it would have been a lot of work to recover them. But would you not think it is worth it? With the black box, and cockpit recordings, you can get all the pilots speech, and many different data about how the plane flew, what went on when. Hell these things have been recovered at the bottom of the ocean.

Hmmmm.... Why, oh why are you guys so afraid of us bringing up religion? Gee, it's not as if we'd try to convert you! So everything is that simple eh? Just out of curiousity....how far back are we talking here when you say, "we've been over there KILLING them?" Not really afraid to bring Religion into it, it just seems, without religion, there is no real context for hatred to exist. Everyone is fighting for a god of some sort, and are pretty static in their religious views. No compassion for the others beliefs. So when you have no compassion or respect for the religion then it becomes a form of hate for those who do not live and let live. I am not afraid of being converted to any religion. For most of them do not fit my personal beliefs. Like the fact most religions believe in a god. Automatic disqualification in my view. More or less, cannot be converted. I see my self as an outsider of religion because I never grew up knowing a specific religion. So it baffles me, yet I understand the importance to some, the belief in something that cannot be in any way proven tangable. It was more of a test to see who can actually participate in this thread without the religion being thrown in. I have now seen that it is impossible for most of you to look at things objectively and neutraly without bringing the religion angel. EDIT. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to insult any of you in any way. It just seems impossible for some of you to seperate yourselves from the religion to look at a situation objectively. I know this thread is gonna get heated, and I am prepared for it. I don't hate your religion, I just don't understand it for the most part. And to answer your first question. How long has the West been interfering in the Middle East?

Wrong....Executice Branch means no such thing. See...History of the United States. I smell a dictatorship.

True...and that will be Ron Paul's undoing (of whatever minute chance he ever had). Paul only supports going to battle with a Congressional Declaration of War. That would mean he really doesn't want to be the President of the United States....he's more comfortable in the House! Being President means you are taking orders from the collective, not giving them.

However your local police force is now linked with state and federal forces as well. Your local guys are the federal and state guys now. And they DO see it that way.

Betsy. I have seen the Power of Nightmares, and am familiar with Sayyid Qutb. Interesting series really. But... And then he Seems hypocritical to accept assistance from those you hate to fight off another enemy. Now we have those same groups fighting back at us. Something termed 'blowback'. ScottSA, you made an interesting comparison with the Hitler and Jews thing. Slander the other to fit your worldview. The thing is no one really sits down (besides most of you here) and reads and thinks about why the hate exists. How the hell did it get to this point anyways? People start to take a step back, look back at history and learn a few things. This is part of my goal here as well. Find out why this hate exists. And if you are the cause of it, how can you stop it. I know to say they hate us is pretty ignorant. Just because, right? Right. Has my actions of previous years come back to haunt me? I may not recall everything I have done bad in my life, but I can bet someone remembers something about it. People do hold grudges for a long time. Over something really stupid as well. Some explanation is in order and then we can all get on with our lives in peace. Now again, as an outsider of religion, I asked to have the religion side taken out of it. For once you take that out, it really does get down to it of hate, just because. No more religious context to put it into. I know it is hard to do that with most of you who are passionate about your respective religions, however, once that is taken away from you, most of you seem lost. Like it defined you and who you are. Without it, you are nothing. Hitler did a great job of portraying the Jews as parasites and needed to be dealt with. Manufactured hate. Installed hate. Learned hate. Really dangerous. Can there be genuine trade between cultures, integration or even segragation but yet respect the others beleifs if left alone and they don't bother anyone? Actually, me and a pal were talking about that the other day, Internet here, people still plowing fields with animals there. Such huge culture gaps, and sometimes shock of how different things are all over the place. Poverty in the places where people hate us come from. Works for urban sprawls, why can't the same concept work on a larger scale? Perceived and learned hate.

Figleaf, you made me laugh in a few parts of that post. The problem exists still when even your own citizens of the country are doing 'terrorist' activities. McVeigh and the Oaklahoma Federal Building. There are people in your own border that want to kill you, and you are worried about those half way around the world? ScottSA This is not what I am saying. I am saying no matter how hard you fight, the attacks will still happen. If you spend 1 dollar, or a trillion dollars, the probability of an attack is still the same. Many resources are wasted fighting the war on terror. More government control over your security. You take the job of being secure in your effects and give it now to the government. You no longer have the effectiveness to prevent it yourself. If you see it you would be able to do something about it. Not anymore. And we know how efficient government is on those kinds of things. Too little too late. And because you want to catch those few terrorists you hinder the lives of everyone in the country towards that end of catching terrorists. More control over you and your shit. Don't worry the government is there to protect you and prevent the attacks. And it is about the oil and natural resources that Bush is over there. Where you find war these days, you will find oil, and lots of it.

Yeah It will be some time before he gets MSM major coverage. Again he is consistant in his words and speech.

Did not care for the reporter much, but great interview none the less.

Sure, eventhough I am thinking it is quite obvious. Context. Current War on Terror. USA, Taliban. Iraq. Eastern world terrorists. Western world targets. I don't want to bring religion, but for clarity. Fundimental Islamist Terrorists. Al-Queda of sorts. I really am not a religious person, so I don't care to bring Islam, Chrisitanity,Judiasm. or any of that sort into it. I just want to find out why they hate us soo much to attack us like that. It just seems like I am missing something here.

It's been very nice here in Ottawa, some rain, some humidity. Generally very nice compared to last summer, it was very hot. Weather happens all the time. Everywhere.

I'm sure you could, but you don't get to spend the money. And with good reason...look what happened with the Gun Registry! Th Gun Registry was a bad idea from the start, and quickly showed to be bloated and missmanaged. So you get no arguments here on that. Funny how much I agree with you on things.

His incident may have been different for he was using a new Muslim name when buying the ticket. He converted to Islam some time ago. This is the reason he was on the no fly list. Not because he was 'Cat Stevens'.

Seriously answer these questions for me. I am surprised this thread has not happend yet. I will ask you one thing. Leave religions out of this debate. Let's get down to the nitty gritty on it. Why do terrorists hate us? Why do they hate freedom? If any of you people can come up with some intelligent arguments as to the why, I would love to hear it. I am pretty damn sick of hearing 'All well they are terrorists, they hate us and freedom'. WHY? NAME YOUR REASONS? EDIT It should read "The 'Why do terrorists hate us'."

Sharkman With edits That is just it now is it not? I have heard Bush in some ways say that the plan is working for there have not been any attacks since. And if another attack happens in the Homeland USA, then how is everyone going to feel about this war on terror? Will they keep supporting it? A terror attack can garner as much support as one can detract the support. And according to Bush, FBI and CIA, they have managed to break up many terror plots targeting the USA mainland. LA Skyscraper (turned out to be a false plot) Fort Dix. Who in their right freaking mind is going to attack a military installation with many soldiers and many weapons? This plot was just laughable. I doubt they would have hit a 'pc store' to make a copy of their Jihad movie. Too much of a risk, even for idiots. JFK airport plot. .... no commment on this one. When people come to the realization that the pre-emtive war on terror will in no way at all prevent the next terrorist attack in the mainland USA, it is doomed to fail from the start. And that is the bigger picture I have always been looking at. To answer your question, I will refer you to Bush himself. Maybe he can answer those questions for us.

Bush Cheney And when leaders treat that as such, they get no respect from me on anything. The oil will run out eventually. So what then? And the whole publicity stunt was done with screened people in a more than safe environment for the President. Not even Americans can get that close to him without having the SS gangpile ontop of you. I dare anyone of you to go up and tossle his hair around. Kind of hints of being another staged publicity stunt for Bush.

Regan was also an actor, so it was not much of a stretch to play the role of a President. Sharkman Actually that nuke in the US is sooner than that. I am predicting this year. And the war on terror will NOT be able to prevent it. So that makes Bush look good? 'Ha ha I told you so!'. But the fact the US has not been attacked since 9/11 is a CLEAR sign that this war on terror is going as planned. History cannot be kind to Bush Jr. Since this war may not end in our lifetime, it will be very hard to judge just how good a job Bush has actually done. The endless quagmire. I have a rock that will stave off bears. Cheap too, 5 dollars each.

ScottSA I admire Hitler in a few ways. Great strategist. He was good at getting support for his cause, he was a brilliant and passionate speaker (eventhough he was a little insane just like any great leader). He called the bluff of all the others for quite some time and got what he wanted out of it. Did it make it right? No, but you can admire the qualities of a man that can gain that kind of frantic support in such a short time. Iran threatens Israel/US with Nukes if Iran is attacked first. Nuclear weapons is a great deterrent from getting attacked. We can use North Korea now as an example. They have claimed to possess nukes, and now the US has backed off from the rhetorical 'axis of evil' in regards to North Korea. When is the last time you have heard a big deal about North Korea?

Bush Cheney Depends on what purpose that huge overinflated Military is to be used for. If it is used for peace... um wait.... I got nothing here at all. What can 500 billion dollars buy? Universal health care for the planet and all it's residents? Top notch education for everyone? Better urban developement? I can find much more important things to spend that money on. The US only touts UN resolutions and other things of importance only when they want it to matter to them. Other than that, the US just tells the UN off and people loose their rights. You are correct here. It is tyrannical. A government that goes to war without the backing of the people/parliment/congress/UN ect ect ect defines tyranny.

I knew that going into Iraq was going to be a bad idea. This was in 2002 when the drums were beat for war. I knew they did not have a nuclear weapons programme anymore and I knew that the war on terror should involve Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. The Coalition invaded two countries and still cannot find Bin Laden. Connecting Iraq to the 9/11 Al-Queda thing was enough to get support for it as well. We can come back to this thread in another 10 years and the 'Long War' will still be fought in Iraq and the Middle East. A war that can last 10 years, or decades or a war that in your life time might not see an end, tends to make people impatient with the so called 'progress'. Yeah I use to many quotes. Now that the UN has said the war was illegal, hell, the US congress did not even pass a resolution or actually declare officially 'war' on anything. Hey Bush-Cheney, regarding to the Cuba/Angola thing. I did some reading. Looks like it was backed by then USSR. Seemed like the USSR called all the shots for that case. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/lib...rt/1984/STP.htm Just seemed like another proxy war between USSR and the USA at the time. The US was contributing to a 'liberation movement' that the Cubans called 'insurgents'. So the Cubans beat the USA. The USA were funding the 'insurgents'. Pretty interesting stuff. Now let's look at the 'why' everyone was there. Must be some fine coffee.

Ok Explain North Korea's recent departure from the NPT?? And then explain why there has really been no threats of the like towards Iran on North Korea in the past couple years?

Take a pill and call the doctor in the morning if you're still like this. The entire point is, Iran threatening its neighbors, I don't care what the reason is. And if you ignore the reasons for Bush threatening other countries around the world... you have two loudmouth idiots. http://english.people.com.cn/200312/20/eng...20_130847.shtml December 20, 2003 Does the IAEA have access to every nuclear facility in the United States? Or any NATO country for that matter? Or any 'western' country? http://www.iranian.ws/cgi-bin/iran_news/exec/view.cgi/2/2564 Jun 9, 2004 Maybe we should review what the NPT is all about. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Non-P...feration_Treaty ,,, yeah yeah I know WIkipedia.. If you read the second part of the NPT agreement, can you tell me of what countries have rid themselves of nuclear weapons because of the NPT?? Even with new nuclear states like India and Pakistan, no one really said shit about them blowing up the world or their neighbours (they really just wanted to go after each other) If anyone is going to enforce the NPT, they should at least be forwarding the goal of nuclear weapon disarmament. And with the likes of the United States developing new types of tactical nuclear weapons, this kind of rhetorical bullshit is completely hypocritical. Be the example in order to show others how it's done.