GostHacked

I agree with Sparhawk. One difference is that Canada has tried to stay out of trying to tell everyone else how to live. As far as I can recall not one of our Canadian embasies in any foreign country has been attacked. We are not in the buisness of regime change, whereas the US has been engaging in this for decades. As a result many US embasies in other countries have fallen vitcim to attacks. As a Canadian, I do not fear an attack will happen here. If it happens, well it happens, and we should really not put alot of focus on it, and just move on. The more focus that is put on international terrorism the more you fall victim to it. I am not saying ignore the possibility outright, I am saying that we should not let it govern our lives. Don't give them the power to instill fear into you. That would just be giving the win to the terrorists.

Riiiiiiight .. What exactly do we beed to be sheilded from? And your sarcastic remark about paying our way through the Cold War, explain and expand on that one please.

Really I am surpised Novak is not being prosecuted for his actions of leaking the information. He is the one who really broke the story. There is no real Investigative Reporting done these days in the U.S it seems. All your major news sources seem to be controlled by something. And you think North Korea has a tight grip on the information. What was it the judje said? OH - "Second, at a time when journalists seek a reporter's privilege akin to the attorney-client privilege, they ought to recognize that an attorney can be compelled to testify if his client communicates to the attorney for the purpose of committing a crime or fraud. ... Third, journalists are not entitled to promise complete confidentiality -- no one in America is." Taken from http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/07/06/reporter...empt/index.html Good time for this to be back in the spotlight. All I can say is that this is systematic elimination of all of Bush's opposers.

Devils Advocate talking here, so it's gonna get rough. Religion is for the weak. I don't NEED someone to guide me. I am well capable of doing that on my own. I do not need to be in a group to assure my beliefs in anything. If they need someone to guide them, they are about as useless as sheep. Follow the heard, beleive in everything they say. Go on your doomed way. Religion has only brought WAR throughout our entire history. We fight and die for religion FIRST before King and Country. Just sad. Now that that is out of the way, Church is all fine and dandy for some. I do understand religion, and accept others belief in it. I just don't like it. Religion has tought me some values, and it can be used as a guiding light. Just don't follow it blindly. Question it, poke it, prod it. Again keep religion out of politics. They are like water oil, they don't mix.

I think the point you are trying to make is that gays are decent people just like straight people. There are more heterosexuals waiting in the park for some random stranger than gays. If anyone thinks gays will be the downfall of society, you need to give your head a good fucking shake. Not just gays are in these bath houses, gay bars ect. As a straight person I go to gay bars once in a while. A good friend of mine is a bartender there. He is a very nice guy. Also a budding artist. So consider me a factor in the whole downfall of society, you can just throw me into the gay camp and prosecute me as such. Heteros are just as promiscuous as gays, if not more. So this argument will never work. If straights were all perfect and holy and never did anything wrong, then you can pick on the gays. Until you are perfect, don't slam others for being different. If you do not want the term 'marriage' tainted in these ways, don't get a divorce. Only a divorce cheapens the word and ideology of marriage. How long ago was it considered bad to get a divorce? End up showing the woman as a weak person or something like that. The church even considered divorce bad untill really this century. Society is evolving. The religios freaks should evolve with the rest of society in order to keep it stable. Reminds me of the other thread in which the person wanted more religion in politics. The government can stay out of my bedroom and the church can stay out of my bedroom.

I have been watching the developments on the Missle Defence Shield for some time. I know most of you have been watching the same. http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/20...wfoundland.html NO matter what we do. The radar will be put in place. The argument is that the new radar will not just help out with the MDS, but provide better radar coverage persion for our Atlantic coast. They want to sell it as an upgrade. They have been looking at Labrador. The US will try anything to sell us this bullshit plan. We lost out huge when the Avro Arrow was canceled due to the prospect of a missle defence plan. Shortsighted yes. Let's not let them pull the wool over our eyes again. What we need to do, is start a National petition againt the MDS, let our government AND the US government know how we feel about it.

Bush is no way one of the people who started this whole fear buisness. But I agree that he (and the powers that control him) used it extensivley. Rummy and Co. are the ones that are doing everything. So it would be the others downfall that no one would notice the idiot puppet president. But yes I agree the brilliance in the proceesings is to have Bush look like and act like an idiot president so the real gears can work in the background. Rummy, from the documentary is one of the people who started it all. THAT man, along with Cheney ect, are the ones that are pulling the strings. Bush may not know all that is going on. A President never knows everything that goes on in the government, the Military would end up telling him what he needs to know. Have you seen the documentary? Watch it. It is scary stuff.

You cannot seriously expect me to swallow this crap. I have read some of this stuff that you have posted and well, there is nothing to back any of this up from what I see. I will check things out some more and keep an eye on it. Sources cannot be confirmed ect. And you expect Bush and Cheney to step down? ARe these the same people that rigged both elections for Bush/Cheney? Or is there another hidden power in place here? This would have to be a global event and would have to happen simultaneously in every country across the globe to be effective. What about those countries that are not going to take part in this event? How will this affect them and in turn affect us for NOT taking part in this act.

Notice I said accepting things you cannot change, like being gay and whatnot. Murder is not acceptable in any case. That is why the judicial system will throw you in the klink. That has consequences. There are things you just cannot change no matter how much you try. But you don't get thrown in jail for being gay! / That notion never came up in my arguments. You SHOULD talk about these things with friends and relatives. But as a whole, again from the topic thread, the way I see it, there is no use for religion in government. We don’t need to agree to get along. <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No it doesn't. This response alone backs up everything I have stated. And you should really revisit the origional post on what started this topic again.

Clearify what you mean by this. In a practical way what does it look like. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Beliefs in a religion, like being a Christian, Catholic, Jew, Muslim. Sure good old moral values are needed in govermnet, but we need to maintain the seperation of church and state. Also those morals have to reflect the society of today. If you are a religious person and a person in power, you cannot let your religious beleifs interfere with the daily workings of the government. This cannot be done for God or whatever. Do it for the people. Once you start letting your religious beleifs (like being against abortion and gay rights ect) you are no longer a politician. You then become a preacher. I don't want preachers in office. I want people who will do the right thing for the whole of the country .You can't please all of the people all of the time. Religion also teaches people to accept the things they cannot change. Like not being able to change my view on religion and my choice not to subscribe to any of them.. Just like you cannot change the fag or the dyke. They are that way cause they want to be that way. No amount of religion and hounding will change them. So let them be. Stop treating them like second class citizens. Also, I see religions being pitted against each other for the most part. Christians are better than Jews, Muslims are more purer than Catholics ect. Get any one of these factions in government again and it will be biased towards that one religion. Other religions will want a peice of the pie as well. So leave all religions at the door and bring good society moral values to the table. Ones that will help us all instead of hampering. NO religion in government can lead to the equality of all people across Canada. Religion is good for people in general, but it does not work for everyone. And since there are so many different religious groups these days, who's religious morals/values do you put into government? One religion gets in and then it becomes a tool to oppress the other religions that want to make their voice heard. Religion is also a private matter. Religion is a choice by the individual and should not be forced upon anyone. And the choice of religion is up to the person. So this may be my argument. Religion is a private matter and government is a public matter. Again, bring your morals that will work with society as a whole, just don't do it in the name of God, do it in the name of our Country. I hope that clears it up .. I really wish I had payed more attention in English class in high school, my writting and thoughts would be clearer.

Without the picture, some just cannot understand the true cost of the war. What should really be shown in the media, is the devestation that is in Iraq due to the war. How many cities are just a total mess because of the invasion. These are the pictures that should be shown to the Amercian public and the rest of the world. The media is a total wuss now when it comes to reporting news. They are not journalists anymore and have nothing in the ways of investigative reporting. They are all military and government PR scams. over 1700 troops dead. over 10,000 wounded. Iraqi civilian casualties? From reports of 20,000 to 100,000. <------------- Were are those pictures in the news media? The American population loves simulated violence, but cannot seem to handle REAL violence. Show those coffins, parade them around the square, in the name of Democracy and Freedom for the homeland. And tell them we are winning this war. Tell them we are doing all we can to help Iraq. Rummy saying the situation is just as bad as it was 2 years ago. I am in total shock on this one !! Show the pictures. Let the American people, and the world know EXACTLY what their government is up to in other places. Find the pictures and send the links in to your local member of congress/parliment/media ect. Let them know what is up.

You should not need religion in government to have these morals in place. You just need good people. Sure bring your valid religious values to to the table, but not your beliefs in the religion. Some things can apply, but again common sense would be the big key here. And our government just does not have common sense.

I wonder why this thread died? I have been watching it for about a week now. I was hoping for something solid from the religious folks. Nothing to back the idea of more religion in government. Nothing. So I guess there is no use for religion in governemt. Or there would be more talk about it in this thread.

You should really include the right link when posting about something. http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Columnists/O...12/1082913.html

If you feel I am suppressing your religious beliefs, this would be all in your head. I hope to hell this is not a troll. If so, it is a sad one at best. You can beleive in whatever you want. Seperation of church and state means just that. If you had religious law entering into mainstream society again (which I am glad it is not) you would find more oppsosition to it from all walks of life. You know that we have taken out the Lord's Prayer in our public shool system back in (I cannot seem to find exactly when) the 80's I think. One question before I continue with things here. What religion where you proposing to put back into government? And why?

Just as we don't wish to see our society infected with atheistic and immoral legalised drugs, same sex marriages and abortion. These are all views that you, being the non-religious minority, have imposed on the majority. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Are you fan of equal rights? Does your religion teach you tolerance. Do you reside in a 'live let live' attitude? Please just stop spewing this without any evidence. Religion is a personal choice. But, even when you choose the wrong religion, you get smacked by the others who, a) don't understand your religion, think it is all black and white, and forgets to see the colours in between. c) if you are not a 'insert jew, catholic, christian, buddhist, monk, muslim' you are not worth my time. So damned if you do, damned if you don't. http://www.equal-marriage.ca/resource.php?id=187 "Hansard - Civil Marriage Act (C-38) debate - Gilles Duceppe (Bloc) Quoted from the bill on that page : "This bill does not legislate matters of the church or religion. It is clear that this bill does not interfere in any way in religious rites or practice. This bill will not require religious communities to marry same sex partners. We must therefore agree that this bill does not, in any way, take anything away from the various forms of worship in Quebec and Canada" So how does this hurt you or your religious ways? That is pretty horrible for a religion to impose all those restricitions on a people, but yet still say they are for equal rights and tolerance towards others that are different. http://www.middleastwomen.org/html/multi.htm I mean in no way to pick on the Muslim community, but this scares me. This cannot happen. How does the line in the prayer go? "Give me the strenght to accept what I cannot change" You cannot change a gay person, nor an athiest. They have to change, and that is only if they want to. Wonder how the religious people took it when females where allowed to vote. What blasphemy that would have been. Chaos and dissorder. More on the women's rights to vote. http://www.chrc-ccdp.ca/en/browseSubjects/womenRights.asp http://www2.worldbook.com/features/whm/html/whm010.html I could assume, that back in those days, the same shit would have been spewed from the religious groups. Claiming it will destroy things and society. Go ahead an just try to take a woman's right to vote away. I dare you. Religion needs to stay out of government.

Costing too much to society? Are you sure you know what you are talking about? And you do realize WHY DDT was banned. If that stuff kills of plant and animal life in short term, over long term use, plants and animals will die and well you know how the food chain works right? We would be in alot more trouble. So this ends up costing more. And you cannot look at just the monetary costs. I agree with Sparhawk on the spirituality kick. I think being ignorant and stupid costs us more than all that other shit combined. I am an atheist/agnostic person. You are being way to general in your accusations, but I will let that slide for now.I am willing to sit down and talk about religion with you but as an atheist/agnostic, I do not feel the need to throw my views down your throat. I am however learning and teaching myself about spirituality, and how I can use them to better my life. Harmony with your environment. That can only be self taught, but you can get guidance from outside. I do see the benifits of being in a large like minded group. It has the benefits of a large base of support. But religion is a guide through life, not a way of life itself. Take what you feel is of value and use it to help you out. Keep your religion away from me please, I do not want to become infected.

Indeed. The one documentary 'The Power of Nightmares but Adam Scott (Britian) showed quite a bit of that stuff. I recall one sceen where Rumsfeld was being interviewed on CNN. He had a nicely detailed diagram/picture of an Al Queada moutain bunker. It had roads in, places for accomodations, places to store weapons, intelligence center ect. Needless to say they never found these terrorist bunkers. Only small caves filled with small arms ammunition and some shoulder fired missles. All the rhetoric now about Iran is very similar to all the propaganda that was spewed out of the Bush administration regarding Iraq.

Well, for one, the US troops should be under the rule that everyone else is. They cannot be granted immunity from their actions (or leaders actions). But this is how they want and do operate. Nothing can touch the US troops. Look, the threats from Russia are nothing to worry about. I think all that stuff is just localized. That wont spill over to North America. Break away states that are still in turmoil and have local problems to deal with. So why even mention China if they are no threat to the US, or the world. Getting back to it all. There is still no need for Space Based weapons. Once the US gets that done, then I can see China ramping up on that as well. The only other countries that would be capable of funding any of these space based weapons are the US, China, Japan, and maybe France (perhaps the whole EU.) Less proliferation and more demolition of the weapon stockpiles will make us all safer. More weapons, means more counter weapons, means more counter counter weapons. Ect.

I will watch this week. The more of this that is out there the better.

Ok granted the UN needs some revamping, but should not have the US try to change it to what they want. And other countries have disregarded the UN in cases, but to this date, the US is one of the only countries that does not recognize the World Court and other world bodies like the WTO... They seem to have the mentality of being 'above the law'. Why do they need to be kept in check? Russian is no real threat anymore. The Soviet Union collapsed back in the late 80's. And China is just starting to grow as a nation. And I have not heard of any threats by China to take over the world. The only beef they have is with Taiwan, and this has allot of history behind it. I do not feel a threat from China. Chances of them invading Canada? Zero%. Chances of them invading if the US pisses them off, that increases dramatically.

Hey, I am new around here so take it easy on my grammer and spelling, sometimes my thoughts come out a bit random. But, but.... but this is not Star Wars. Well, yes it is, and I do wonder how the hell all that new technology will be paid for. This most likely has been in the works since the Reagan administration. They may have already had allot of funding for these new space weapons. For the fact there is no reason a toilet seat costs a few thousand dollars, or a $500 hammer. Over 400 billion spent on the war on Terrorism, 80 billion emergency funding, minus the cost of 50 billion (over the next 20 years) to close bases, and I would guess 100 million to clean up the other bases they already closed. The spending is way out of control. The only way that is will stop is if someone takes out this administration. I just wish the rest of the world had some balls to say NO to the US.

Assuming I support the death of Americans is not a good idea. But after the unneccessary invasion of Iraq, the whole patriotic thing around 9/11 really looses it's meaning. It is a shame indeed that many lost their lives, but there is no justification of it when you are 100% wrong for the reasons GWB invaded Iraq. You are totaly dishonouring their deaths for something that is not even remotely related to the incident. And really GWB is just a puppet in the whole scheme of things. It's people like Wolfowitz, Cheney, and Rumsfeld who are the real string pullers in this situation. They have been at this alot longer than Bush has even held any form of political office. On the Iran note: Iraq had one war that tore down it's military machine. Then after years of sanctions, their economy went to the toilet, therefore not being able to afford all those weapins that the US said they had.So it could not survive another. Iran can slowly be whittled down through sanctions ect. just like the US likes to do with anyone that does not see it their way. Iran has been on their agenda for some time. So the plan is already underway. It will just take some time.

Greetings all. I want to focus on the power of fear. I have been watchng the happenins in the US and abroad for some time. The reasons for the invasion of Iraq is a disgrace to the American people. The ability to dream up the worst case scenario and present it to the public in a way that would let the leaders maintain control. I am basing allot of this on a documentary I have watched entitles the Powers Of Nightmares : The Rise of the Politics of Fear by Adam Curtis. IT ws quite compelling, I do recommend it for viewing. It focused around the upcomming neo-conservatives along with a new Christian religious movement to instill fear in the populous about the new prospect of terrorists wanting to attack the US. My Personal thoughts. (even before watching the documentary) The invasion was a total farce. Linking Saddam to Al-Quaeda(sp?) and that they had close ties wth the 9/11 highjackers. Without being really conscerned with politics around the world at that time of 9/11, I had to shake my head for the reasons that the US went to war with Iraq. If one thinks that Saddam had much left after he was drivin out of Kuwait (in terms of military might.) they were mistaken. Also I had thought to myself that this will not end here. Just looking at it geographicaly, Iran will be next (stuffed between Iraq and Afghanistan), and now you see all the same rhetoric for Iran that was said about Iraq and Afghanistan for that matter. The US wants to change the world to make them safe. The propability of another 9/11 is going to be reactionary to what the US does around the glode on this War On Terror. So here let's take a look at some stuff: THEN : The US claims about Iraq Yes they have WMD, chemical, bilogical, and are training terrorists from within. Yes they want to hurt the US. NOW : They gave up. No evidence found for the WMDs or anything ELSE related to terrorism. But the spin on it duped the US population. OH but even if we get rid of him, that alone justifies the invasion. No link to the 9/11 highjackers at all. I could supply links but I am sure most of you are well aware of the timeline. If you think that invading these countires to make your American society for safe, you are sadly mistaken. There are more terroist attacks around the globe than ever and the US stopped the annual terrorist reports. Winning the war? Iraq is a total debacle for the US, this wil have severe long term affects on them. The more they push their agenda, the more likely they WILL be attacked again. I don't want any flames, or anyone telling me I am an idiot and stupid for realizing this. We can still talk about this without being asshats. I will end this with, if you instill fear in the people of what MAY happen, and dream up assumtions on assumtions, you can stay in power.