Army Guy

According to all the laws that is what happens when you return back from any conflict, soldiers off duty are not targets . If this was the case nations would have armed soldiers in and out of unifrom, so they could protect themselfs...there would ROE's for engaging those declared enemies of the state....and there are none. they are just regular citizens .Does it make for better headlines sure it does....but when was the last time you heard of a soldier out of uniform hacking to death a muslim citizen.....you don't it would be murder, or a terrorist attack....both are illigal.... As for the drone attacks you might have a piont, however most drones are located in the operations area , flown, armed, and maintained there. alot of wpns are out of range for the taliban such as arty, missle attcks, even bombing aircraft..... Muhajedeen. if that was true why sign the agreement, they know who the US considers terrorists.....until they do something to deter terrorist from hanging out in there nations, then they can expect someone to go in and get them....

Stealth is for Radar, which the Taliban had what exactly.....and yet to the naked eye what do you see , a big ass honken jet come screaming down on you.....

The US made it very clear what would happen if Bin Ladin and his merry group was not handed over....they spelled it that they would use military force is nessicary....can't spell it out any clearer....it was the taliban who returned and said we will protect them with force...sounds like a party to me....And yet the UN agreed to allow US lead coalition forces to use military force....wonder how many lawyers are on all sides to make this go through , How would the UN even agree to the invasion if it was not legal....why would cretian agree to send Canadian forces over if it was not legal.... As for Iraq the UN had sanctions again'st it, Iraq had broken those agreements, the US used force to enforce them....illigal wounder how many lawyers are still going over this....why has nothing been done to date..... Was this British soldier in uniform, No he was not, once out of uniform he is just a British citizen no more, .....like any other citizen...war or not war declared....it was a terrorist attck , done to make a policitical piont.... Off duty service personal do not have the right to take a life other than while on duty in a operations zone...they can not just walk around Britian and kill muslims when they want...it is the law... Ya pakistan has the right, but it is them who are protecting these terrorist to start with....And it was Pakistan that signed the anti terror agreement to do anything possiable to not support terrorist.....and to do anything possiable to bring them to justice....hows that working out .....bin ladin had a nice stay did he not.....And the drone strikes go on....

Your failing to get one of your own pionts, the entire country is a battlefield, Targeting is extremily hard because the bad guys fail to clearly indentify themselfs, instead blending in with the same people to whom they are supposily fighting for, which indangers inocent citizens.....Hence why the laws governing warfare make this illigal. That being said attacks can still be carried out as long as colaterial damage is limited, that decision can be taken by anyone in command. No, you are the one that said these acts were again'st inter national law , when they are not. The taliban regime at the time refused to hand over Bin Ladin and his merry crew, in fact they said they were under they're protection, and they would defend them if attacked.....US and coalition forces agreed it needed to be done. It does not matter now does it, Karzi was eventually elected to his current postion not once but twice...and just because you may disagree with is government does not make it illigimate does it.... Your comment about US soldiers is BS, your painting them all with the same brush, US forces make up the majority of the forces in Afghanistan and have more improvement projects than any other nation.....all the coalition forces operated on almost the same ROE's and it was not shoot first ask questions later..... Your right not every Afghanis seen the war the same way, but the clear majority did not want to have anything to do with the Taliban. remember over 80% of all civilian deaths are done by the Taliban...most Afghans wanted the taliban gone...in fact very little of the civilian population never even got involved in the early stages of the war.... The country has never been completely whole as you suggest, it as always been fractured by tribes, and religion. and will be for many years to come it is in their culture... Atleast your trying but reading a couple of books is just scratching the surface, one thing about the media will in Afghan was they very rarely left the wire....every night the gen would feed them the info that was cleared for public consumption, even when being spoon fed info each paper would have different stories....some journalist went out with the troops but it was a rare event. it was even rarer for a jounalist to stya outside the wire without NATO protection, to get the other half of the story....So beware of those author's claiming to have the true story....no everything you read is acurate.... The media liked to paint NATO as the bad guy, but facts are facts, 80 % of all the civilain deaths were done by the Terrorists....yes some of those that died were inocent civilians , but we are not talking about a trip to the mall here are we....we are talking about modern warfare and people die, and like in all warfare most of those are going to be civilians. Tragic yes it is, but unavoidable ...

Here is how muslims react to the burning of the koran. add them up over 100 dead in just one country. There are more Iraq , and so on....... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Afghanistan_Quran_burning_protests Here is some more friendly muslims , and how they treat there niebors or non muslim brothers. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/ChristianAttacks.htm Young girl shot by taliban for viocing opinion...... http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/09/pakistan-girl-shot-activism-swat-taliban Terrorist responsable for 81 % of the civilian deaths. http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/02/afghanistan-civilians/ Taliban how they treat their women. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban_treatment_of_women

Yes the Military is the target, when on the battlefield, but this soldier was not on any battlefields was he , no he was down town London, in his own nation....All of which is agains't all the rules, and is a form of terrorism.....but then again they knew that did they not.... Can you show me in any of the laws that i mentioned already where it states that drone attcks can not target high valued targets be it at a funeral or attempting to give aid to the injured....it would make your claim as a inter national war crime hold some water.... Afghanistan was invaded in early 2000 by a coalition of forces to take down those responsable for sept 11 ...later on the legitamate government of Afghanistan asked NATO to help with rebuiling the nation and to assist with control terrorists....they are terrorist because that is what the UN , Inter national law, and the genva convention label them as....I'm not shocked at anything these scumbags do, and you'll note that i'm not labeling all muslims scumbags , just those that use terror as a wpn to regain control over the people....How many Afghanis have you talked to, how many want the taliban back in control.....not very many.... Invading and occuping.....you forgot that the legitimate government of Afghanistan ASK NATO....that is not an invasion nor is it an occupation..... Me disrepect the people, I meet thousands of local people in dozens of towns and villages not once did i or any of my troops disrepect anyone. in fact we were welcomed with open arms, and achieved many peaceful initiatives. such as building wells, building dike systems for there crops, providing medical assistance, having meetings with the local elders....making their lives that much better....does that sound like disrepecting their culture..... Now for the dozens of terrorist groups that plagued the country , those scumbags sir were treated as per the genva convention,but if you asked me did i hold back from using deadly force when i could the answer would be no, not because of what they did to us , we as soldiers excepted the fact that is why we were there....that little girl who had her hands cut off, her mother serverally beaten to death, her father was beheaded all in front of her , for the grand crime of going to school she was 5 years old at the time.....i had the honor of sharing my lunch with her at age 8...she is still going to school , and had wanted to talk and thank NATO soldiers because we were the ones that made that happen.... I meet her on my first tour, and she was the reason i went back for the second time.... The old man who had all his skin striped off his body, a common taliban practice, his crime was he talked to us, our patrol had asked directions to the next town, the next morning when we came back, he was laided out on the ground , at that time of day it was 55 degrees , and the sun was cooking him alive...we had called in a medic vac helo, but he had passed before it came.... I got thousands of stories of death and destruction that you won't here in the media, on just how well these terrorist scumbags treat their own people....Nice guys , fuc*ing heros in everones books......all except mine, had Canada decided to stay in Afghanistan i would be going back over on my forth tour...why, because nobody else wanted to stand up for a people that has been at war for over 30 years.....i as a Canadian citizen whom has so much wanted to share some of it with a people that have very little.... The taliban don't want it's people to be free, to improve their live or standards of living ....it wants the freedom to terrorise it's own people to treat them they way they want....i ask you are these the people you want to stand behind.....or is it that little girl, or old man.... Before you judge me and other soldiers perhaps you should do alittle research.....goggle is a wonderful thing

First of all, soldiers do not declare anything, they are the tools that our government uses to sort out foreign policy.....This government is elected by Canadian citizens every 4 years....but you know that, we Canadian citizens are responable for all thier decisions, good and bad, whether you elected them or not........so it's not just soldiers who ,you can piont the finger at ....it's all of us Canadian citizens.....so now the target gets a little larger....it includes all of us....how does it feel to become one of those targeted by scumbags that could and will , end your life in a blink of the eye.....because they feel used or want to avenge a Muslim not even from the same country.....but that is cool to you atleast..... No what is shocking is that you have the gall to sit there in your chair and mumble on about something you know nothing about....I am a soldier who has done 3 tours in Afghanistan....once i leave that country take my uniform off..... i cease to become a legimate target....it say so in inter national law, our countries law, and the genva convention.....despite what you think is right or not.... Those that fight back know the rules of the game better than i do....in Afghanistan you pick up a wpn and use it on government troops your going to die.....thats right NATO will send his ass to hell, where there are no virgins, just lots a flames.... because if that was the case i would be legally covered when killing these scumbags in our streets, when ever it suited me, ......our streets, in front of Canadian citizens....I mean if it's OK for them to do it why not us........because we understand that a british immigrant might get upset and decide to take someones life....and we really won't make a fuss because he was a soldier who actually served his nation in Afghanistan......and not some white guy who just decided to go to afghanistan to kill muslims by himself.... It's you thats needs to find out what this war is all about, educate your self on what these scumbags are doing to thier own people.....cutting the hands off little girls, sawing heads off with dull knifes., stripping the entire skin off old men and leaving them to die in the hot sun.....killing men for allowing their girls going to schools.....acid in the faces of little girls, shooting little girls in the head because they talk out against these little bastards you seem to be defending now....YA they are fuc*ing hero's .....and we should turn the other cheek.....Because we the west have did some meddling....that gives them the legal / moral right to kill when they want...does that give some guy in Iceland the moral right to kill a muslim because this man killed a white man in london.....thats what your saying... we won't let they them do that in their own country.....and will should not allow them to do it in ours....I just hope the rest of them involved get a night vist by the British SAS.....and that a clear message is recieved...fuc* with the Bull and you get both horns....

How many times has our government issued travel warnings to these so call peaceful muslim nations

I personally think Baird should of used one of Demi Moores quotes....Suck my Dic*.....Bet that would grabed everyones attention... This is another example of why we as a nation should pull out of that money pit that produces nothing....the monkeys are running the ZOO....and have been for a while now.... And to those Canadians that agree and seriously think we should be listening to nations who's human rights records speak for themselfs, should bend over, grab your ears and pull straight down....this will dislodge your head, if not pull harder.....those that still think Canada is a bad place to live, contact me I'll come over and help you pack for free....maybe a few years in North Korea, China, Russia is exactly what the doctor ordered....

you think our current military is bloated, 65 k in total, 15 k ground pers thats bloated, shit our military has a hard time sending 2800 of us on operations at one time..... you don't get it either, if and when anything comes up we are sent in as is, it takes years to spring up a purcurement program to get the tools we need....future wars conflicts are come as you are....

I did not say US interests and Canadian interests were the same, you did, i did however say we have signed defensive agreements which could drag us into a conflict, until those are canceled then we as a nation must have the military to back up those agreements.... You know nothing about me, or other soldiers, you base your opinions on what you've read or seen on TV.....sure we put up a brave front, but when the metal starts hitting the bone none of us really want to be in the shitholes our government sends us to......And if war was not a dangerous enough place to be it's people like your ilk that make it even that much more deadly....you have the guts to send us over there but not the balls to make sure we have the right training or equipment based on the Dollar.....that is what drives you and your kind money..... And it's not me personally that is not ready, it's most of the world, with over 2000 bil dollars spent on militaries, i think that pretty much backs up my statement, How much is spent on humanitary relief again....So you still think the majority of the planet is ready to turn their equipment into plows to feed the masses....why is that, because we don't give a rats ass....as long as there is hockey, beer, we don't care....Thats not me just ranting...that is a fact....So until that all changes your skys are not blue, but rose colored....and Canada as a nation will continue to need a military for years to come...

You still don't get it, Canada has signed defensive pacts with dozens of nations, each of whom do have real threats, if one of them are threatened we will be dragged inot that conflict, prepared or not....The US decided China was a threat to her and her interests, therefore she is a threat to us....Taiwan is under US protection, and if a conflict brews there we will be drug into it.... 1.2 % of our GDP goes to spending on our military, the other 98.8 % is not under review WHY ? because the military is always a linberal target....and yet billions are spent on other stupid shit....the military has been targeted long enoungh....time to paint another target.... Why don't we leave the equiping of our military to the experts, and have the arm chair critics sit this one out....And while we are concerned with feeding the starving a noble cause that it is , our own military could not defend downtown toronto on a good day, and yet nobody is concerned with that....Screw it the US will protect us as they have always done.....well it's time to move out and stop sucking off the US tit...grow up as a nation take responsability for our own problems....Maybe the US president should show us some tough love....and demand us to pay our share, which is alot more than 1.2 %.... To many Canadians love the free ride, and yet have failed to do anything postive with the funding they do NOT spend on defense.....i mean with our plentiful, resources what have we done ....have we sent enough to make a deference in say Somolia, or any other starving nation ....where images of millions of women and children were shown on the media every night ...what did we do as a nation, we changed the f***ing channel is what we did ..Nations that are starving need more than foreign aid, they need someone with a stick to make sure food gets to the people....send all the aid you want and all you will acomplish is line the pockets of those that are starving their own people.... Why are we even talking about feeding the starving masses anyways, when that funding could and should be spent on our own problems here in our own nation.....No that does not even get a mentioned....WE want to feed the millions....and we want to do that with our military spending because the color green and big mean rough men scare me, make me ill....Thats the real problem.... Heres an idea, cut off funding to unemployment, and welfare here in our nation, use those bils to feed the starving and employ them to hand out all this foreign aid.....Or why not cut of all the bils spent on first nations, and finally make them one of us, equal, instead of the conquored race we treat them as ....lets not get into to that this topic is military spending.... One that you have intrenched your ideas and beliefs into thinking it is all a waste.....nothing is going to change your mind....nothing is going to change mine, i've been to most of the worlds shit holes, seen with miy own eyes what not being prepared can do, how dangerous liberal minded thinking is....I've also seen what evil men are capable of if they are left alone to do what they want....we as a human race are not yet ready for a world without war....we will always pick on the weak and take what we want....ALWAYS....

How can it afford it, in the current day deficit. that 1.2 % is falling daily as they hit up our military for cuts. Like i said before show us some samples were our foreign aid has provided positive results which provided more secuity than our military operations have. Our curent military is not equiped properly to it's peace time TO&E, its well below that mark...knowing that there is just over 15,000 reg force soldiers protecting this great nation must comfort you. You pay insurance for you car, your home, maybe your life, ever need them ? If not why do you pay it to them......have they ever payed out more than what you have paid in to them ? would you risk not having them ? Modern equipment takes years to produce , and you can not rent it in large numbers, so IF anything happens where do you get it ? how do you train on it.... Attacks on the main land is not the main threat, as we are lucky US to the south, and where we are situated in the world....the problem is getting drug into a conflict not on our shores but else where...what then...do our military not require the same level of protection. No other dept has the equipment or training to respond to any threat, which includes other fishing ves....as those depts have already been starved and can not afford to purchase any of the equipment needed, hence why RCMP, Coast Guard, Border security, all depend on naval , air , and ground equipment from the military.... How much comes to back to canada , plse provide a source...

Your moving the goal posts again, if that was the case you would also have to include all of the other nations BLACK Budgets, its current wars etc...which would drive your 1735 well past the 2000 mark would it not.....lets not forget those numbers that china have provided are just for the media, and are much higher. That lunacy is still going on read the source i provided on conflicts around the world today, then tell me again that the world has changed enough not to have another world war.....It is our very nature to pick up a stick and beat someone when we don't get our way....we been doing it since we appear on this planet and we will continue to do it until we all perish.... Having a ready and modern military is an insurance policy that others don't take what they want....it is also one of many tools to ensure we can support our foreign policy. Like it or not militaries are here to stay....and having one costs billions to maintain. Your idea of saving all those souls from starving is admirable, but as history clearly states over and over , you want to save those poor souls you need lots of funding for aid and a huge military stick to ensure it gets to the people that need it.... and to do that you need people on the ground. people with guns and stuff....Sending in huge amounts of aid does what exactly....can you name a project our nation has completed with just foreign aid and it has had better results than sending in Combat troops. I mean your the one trying to sell this idea of yours prove it works give us some samples...

http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/C/a/Casualties.htm Hardly the swat you make it out to be, US cas alone were 111,606 killed, and 253,142 wounded...not counting other allieds including chinese 4 mil killed, and 3 mil wounded....36 million souls died in that conflict. I guess those numbers don't scare you, the death and destruction in the pacific war was 50 % of all WWII cas numbers....proving it was hardly a swat....

Bullshit, where do you pull these figues from, Japan spends almost 60 bil a year on defense, ranked 5 th world wide, spending just 1 % of thier GDP.

neither is sticking your head in the sand and hoping that it is going to go away. like i said the problem must be studied and looked at carefully, hence why we have all these other depts including CSIS and other intel gathering agencies...and if the threat is there or a possiability then action must be taken to mitigate that threat....Sticking your head in the sand is exactly what the Allieds did before the out break of WWII, and what did that cost them in lifes and equipment. Uour the one suggesting the Chinese are coming for our ice bergs....I've already stated china does not yet have a large capacity to project power into another region. but they do have the resources to heavily influence thier region. enough so, to make the US military blink and think about tangling with them. That being said the US does have defense pacts with countries in the region, and would act if they were threaten, this is a conflict that more in likely our own nation would be drawn into.... I'd like to know just what your basing this comment on, China can spend up to 50% of the world's military spending and still it would be self-defense, since that's how much the U.S. is spending. As you just quoted that 1735 bil was spent on militaries around the world....even the US does not spend more than half of that. My piont is china already posses more than enough military power and equipment to deal with all her enemies at the same time...in your mind how much more does she need to spend before an alarm bell goes off and you Start to think that perhaps it's more than defensive but offensive.... Out of more than 160 nations and thats all you can up with 3 nations that "may" have (crashed, because of their overly mliitaristic economy) I think if we took the USSR economy apart you'll find that mismangement played a larger roll in it's down fall... Preparing for War is an insurance policy that the nation requires, like it or not it is the times we live in, below is a list of conflicts that are ongoing today. you can call it what ever you like , but it is better to be be prepared , than it is to have someone slap my ass becuase i had my head up my ass....and if that presence of mind cost 2 % of our GDP so be it.... http://www.warsintheworld.com/?page=static1258254223

Thats a loaded question, either way you answer it it is going to be wrong, and yet it happens everyday, including in our country, a police officer in a high speed pursuit, endangers the lives of everyone on the roads, and in some cases ends badly for someone else.... It is a judgement call, and if it meant taking out a person who has or can take out many more lifes in the future, then yes....

You did make a claim, "I am not so sure we need 65 planes..." sounds like a claim to me, i'm asking you how you came to such a claim, what research have you done to back this claim? i mean DND has a few experts and they have already said 65 is the bare minimum... Yes, it is Canadian tax payers money, gather up by a government to which recieved a majority in votes, and it has given the Dept that funding to spend as it is needed.... A while it is your right to be concerned on how that money is being spent, here is something you should be concern with. We continuly ask our members of our armed forces to risk thier lives to carry out our nations policies. And while they "the members of the Canadian forces"have gladly voluteered to do these taskings knowing what consquences could be. All they have asked in return is that the Citizens of Canada have our backs, that they to should gladly see that our men and women have the best training, and equipment to give them an edge on the battlefield. We are not asking you to fund a military capable of world domination, but rather one that can defend our nation,and her interests abroad, and carry out those very policies created by our government. Canada has never had a taste for world domination, it is just not in our DNA. And god forbid, our nation enters a conflict that consumes those very same men and women, it will be up to the Citizens of Canada to take up the cause....pick up our flag off the battle field and raise it in pride like they have always done...would it not be some piece of mind that those that have gone before them, had atleast preped , did all the research and developement to ensure we had chosen the right equipment for the job.....history has shown in very clear detail that this has rarely been the case...we have in most cases picked the cheapest bider, the cheapest equipment the cheapest everything. Is this the legacy we want to leave our brothers, sisters ,sons, daughters....as these people will be climbing into these very machines we purchase , these will be the machines we will be pinning our hopes on to return them safely and in one peice after everything returns to normal.... And that cause is what has as you say my panties in a knot....when we place money above a Canadian life. To that note we also know there is a line that is drawn in the sand , when we simply can niot afford it.....in my opinion have we crossed it yet....i don't think so....we spend well under 2 % of our GDP on defence, whats the other 98 % being spent on, and why have we not focused on that...

2010 http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/aug/24/pentagon-china-closer-matching-modern-militaries/? 2011 http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/25/world/25military.html 2013 http://e-ring.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/04/08/unveiling_china_s_defense_budget According to the experts above, the "defense only" comment is debunked, they have far exceeded that. in fact they have exceeded every military in the world in growth, avg up to 10 % every year since 2010, while western nations have clearly shown a steady decrease. And as the experts have claimed, the Chinese have exceeded what they claim they have spent, each and every year. And while the whole topic does not require us to start digging bunkers, it is a topic that should be carefully studied, and taken into consideration to our own military future, and how this is going to effect us as a nation and as a member of NATO,NORAD, any other defensive pact we have signed .... Most of the experts have also claimed cause for concern , while China lacks the military punch to carry out deployments far from there own coast, it does have the punch to heavily influence it's region. including taiwan which has backing from the US, meaning it is a highly likely sitution Canada may become involved in. would they risk lossing all the marbles to expand, only china could answer that, but lets not forget history, and how far we let the Nazi's expand before we acted...and when we did it was to late for alot of nations... As for leading to the collaspe of the Chinese economy i highly doubt that, considering how fast that is growing as well...

Ok whatever, my sources say that the total costs will be double of a comparable plane. Also, I'm not so sure that we need 65 of them. And what experience do you base that outcome on, are you a retired airforce general, are you the current serving CDS. have you or are you privy to any military studies done on this ....if no....then back up this claim, and how you came across it. Well if you call playing war games while drinking glacier martinis in Hudson's Bay "doing something" then yes I do think we should do less. I am saying we should do less, spend less but get the same or even better results. Once again if this is all you think our military does then sir, i'm afraid you know jack shit on what the military does, nor are you qualifified to suggest how that dept spends it's money....kind of left your panties blowing in the breeze....

Paranoia is one thing, but it shouldn't be the basis for national policy. Just because you don't understand it does not make it false, how do excplain the Chinese massive build up in thier military....is it because military stuff is a cool to own, you've just said military equipment is a waste of money, could be used to feed the hungry masses....and yet they are the second largest spender when it comes down to military hardware, for what use i ask....i can tell you its not for feeding anyone... And if they could just buy a nation, then why are they spending all of this funds on military shit....but when i add it up, it means they plan to use it one day....

Yes she's a very pretty women...times a changing....wasn't that long ago when our hockey hero's did'nt have teeth, hair, or huge stashes....Much like the flyers team in the 70's 80's...remember bobby clarke...

Yes but it is driven by us the consumer, Yes the corps made a bundle,driven by our quest to save a few dollars....I don't think it is over, i think the big corps and our quest to save, will eventually have everything made in China....We have a large roll to play in this as well.... The question is "Is China to big economically to mess with" , because we would need a large event to change things the way it is going now....because everyone loves the almighty dollar....and is not willing to risk anything or everything in a big change.