Army Guy

PatM: It's got nothing to do with being a right winger...A terrorist is anyone that uses terror to gain or achieve a goal...in Afgan that means killing women to send a message that women don't rate an education,and should stay away from the schools... or that a muslim women talked to a NATO soldier....it means killing women for not conforming to thier strict dress regulations.... terrorizing old men and women into helping them gain info on NATO troops...gang pressing young boys into thier service...to strap on explosives.... A TERRORIST is that 12 year old boy whos family is here in Canada...who's father took him over to afgan to fight ..and is now living in gitmo...this same boy killed an american medic... A Terrorist is that arab that tried to light his shoe on fire onboard an aircraft...his shoe had plastic explosives in it.. A Terrorist is that arab that got caught at the border with a trunk full of material that could be used to make explosives.... A Terrorist is timothy Macvia that blew up that FBI building in the. states...

Black dog: Your right, there is no state of WAR that has been offically declared....And that is just a technicality, our country has committed armed troops to an armed conflict to soldiers thats war.. Call them what ever you wish, we call them terrorists as that is exactly what they are. Read section IV Relative to protection of Civilian persons in time of war. Art 5 Art. 5 Where in the territory of a Party to the conflict, the latter is satisfied that an individual protected person is definitely suspected of or engaged in activities hostile to the security of the State, such individual person shall not be entitled to claim such rights and privileges under the present Convention as would, if exercised in the favour of such individual person, be prejudicial to the security of such State. Where in occupied territory an individual protected person is detained as a spy or saboteur, or as a person under definite suspicion of activity hostile to the security of the Occupying Power, such person shall, in those cases where absolute military security so requires, be regarded as having forfeited rights of communication under the present Convention. Lets be clear that operations conducted by Canadian soldiers in Afgan are done according to every art within the convention. And those persons that are captured or detained Are 100 % terrorist captured in the act. and they are handed over to higher authority in Afgan that means the US. I can not comment on US forces operating in Iraq... They are not prisoners of war,but "terrorists" and are not afforded any protection under the convention with exception as they are expected to be treated fairly,afforded trial at the earlist time possiable. they are housed, fed,allowed to practice thier religion...Can you say the same for thier prisoners...what can a NATO soldier expect from thier movement...other than a public beheading...with a machette or dagar... That is not an excuse for roughing -up a prisoners by NATO troops but thier is always two sides to every coin... I'm not a cop..but a smoking AK in a combat zone is pretty guilty to me. I don't know how many were in the wrong place at the wrong time...but like i mentioned before if your in a combat zone and have a wpn odds are your guilty...In the Canadian Area of operations most of the people are unarmed...don't get me wrong it's not Canada..but those that are armed have a reason most are not good...We get to know who's who by constant patroling and talking to the locals...it takes months of this but it is what makes Canadians so sucessful in Kabul..again all i can comment on is the prisoners that are captured by Canadians and they are guilty as charged... Your right it is...and this is what most Canadians have a problem with because they have not been exposed to interrogation ....If the information can save lives or end a battle or war then one has to wiegh the outcome with a charge....in these cases mild forms of interrogation will be used...sleep and sensory depervation, head games...anything short of physical or medical treatments..... Come on who's they...your a smart guy you know they are carry out these acts it makes the news every week....I've gone over months of posts here and there is only a few that condemn or get a small mention of these beheadings ...but nothing like the slams of what the US has done...

CFB Goosebay has been downsizing for years... DND has decided to close it because NATO members are not using it that often with many already pulled out... As much as i'd like to blame the Liberals it was a DND's decision to save some money. It will close soon. Bigdude: We don't need a military...but an eviromental force...Remember that next time you take for granted every freedom you now have..and remember what it cost this nation and it's military....

Technocrat: I agree with you that the UN in it's present form is a toothless paper tiger. That said do you really believe you can get those with veto power to let that go. And to be fair the US is not the only country that has "blantantly disregarded international laws or treaties...i can think of a few more countries who fit that bill more than the US... My question to you, is who is going to ensure that the worlds problems don't overflow on to our shores. Who's is going to keep China, Russia and the many others in check. The freedom we enjoy in Canada today is mostly due to the fact that we are next door niebours with the US...and that we fall under thier security umbrella. And as good niebours we can only bitch and complain on the way they do it ...when we as a nation don't even want to look after our own borders.

Theloniusfleabag: War has not been offically declared by any goverment involved in Iraq or Afgan. that has passed through parliment or any other offical channels. who do we blame for that... For the men and women of the countries involved they are very much at War. For them thier goverments have sent them over, as I'm sure they all would rather be some place else, doing something else rather than trying to bring peace and order to countries that are divided on what they really want.

I'm just curious but say NO to the US for what spending on thier military machine or taking down dictators like Sadam... And what is it exactly we need the UN for ....debating world problems...watching as 100's of thousands die....what can the UN do that say NATO can't do better...or for that matter the US goverment...

Eureka: Perhaps you can show me in the Genva convention where terrorists are covered and to be afforded all protection under it. As the US already stated those in Afganistan, fighting under the name Taliban did not fall under the Genva convention, and would not be protected under the convention. It has also stated that those Iraqi Insurgents also fall under the same catagory...

Black dog: We'll never know exactly who actually incited the riots, Who has the most to gain? add to an already tense situation,I'm sure the article did nothing to sooth that sitation any. If Newsweek has no proof of any of these rumours actually happening then they have a responsability to everyone not just thier readers to get that proof...not to print what ever they feel will sell Mag's...Most people believe what they read, just because it's in print.... Lets not forget that WE are at War, and the Genva Convention does not apply to these prisoners, because the are classified as terrorists... Most if not all have been captured in a combat zone and are guilty of operatating against coalition forces...including Canada i might add... Interregation methods all fall within the Genva convention. what perturds me to no end is that we as Candains are feeling sorry for these poor Basta*ds,...and yet we say nothing when they Cut someones head off on line, routinly excute men,women,children... Yes lets not forget those that were murdered by coalition forces...as murder is murder and EVERYONE should be held accountable including those dogs we call terrorists...those members of the coalition are charged and will be held accountable..

I hope we are not making excuses to justify riots that killed 25 people....The blame clearly lies with those that incited the riot period..... whether or not the story of the Qoran is true or not, it does not justify the killing of anyone...but there are some that are quick to piont the finger to the south See ,See what you did now...B.S. 25 people died in riots because someone took offense to some Rumours that happen in an interregation...

Thats exactly what the majority of the Airborne Regt said....just as the Liberals disbanded them....The deeds of a few were paid for by the many.... Why is it that in most normal organizations, that when anything as big as this inquiry happens...the leader of the organization takes responsiabilty,stands-up takes it like a man or women then steps down... But because we as Canadians expect the liberals not to except any blame or resposiabilty for anything, including showing leadership required to run this country.

What is it that the Liberals have done for this country in the last 8 years that you or for that matter anyone would want to hold on to this belief that we should re elect the liberals.. I think Canadians vote liberal because they always vote liberal....not because there platform is better.... How many liberal scandals does the Canadian tax payer have to live with....because the list is huge...

The Terrible sweal: I'm just curious, why is the country having the inquiry in the first place.... An accusation must have been made. There must be some sort of evidence....why would they be dragging this thing on and on....

Why is it that we the canadian tax payer have such low expectations when it comes to our goverment ? Do we the same people have the same expectations from our leaders at work ...in our place of employment. or for that matter from any postion that serves this country...I do not understand why being a polition this type of behavior is tolerated or expected... What does this say to the rest of the world, about Canadians. Leaders are supposed to show the highest forms of leadership values...lead by example.. Something i think is lacking in most parties today... We need to vote for a leader, that we will know act in a way that is best for the majority of the country. not what is best for the few....

Black dog: So basically you are telling me that if the orginal 5 do not agree that the rest of the what 187 nations or so should follow suit and do nothing, that the UN leadership should not take the lead by denoucing the actions of Rwanda and ask the other nations if they could or would assit in a UN backed mission, or perhaps even acting under thier own flag to stop the genicide. Then the UN really does not need any leadership, just someone who can chair the meetings or gatherings. Most of this is already laided out in the UN charter, and you are correct by saying that not every crisses or situation is going to require a military force to solve it's problem. Every organization that anyone sets up are going to be open to political influence, but NATO is not limited to only 5 nations votes. This is true, but the military side is only one side of the rebuilding or peace process thier must be other organizations involved in rebuilding the nation from scratch. This is where the US failed in Iraq ,Yes they defeated Sadams military forces, they failed to provide constant security with the units that were going to stay in the area for a long period of time., over each town,hamel,etc...they also waited to long to start the reconstruction phase...this was blamed on the lack of security in each town or village. In other words they failed to win over the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people.... by providing them security and reconstruction it would have gave the people hope and they would have interned helped the US forces with the insurgent problem... Not doing anything and watching 800,000 people killed is just as bad if not worse than trying to doing something and failing ....

Argus: Yes however, There are currently 3 Regts of armoured units, x2 are armed with LAV III, and Coyote recce vehs the last is armed with the leo tank.. Each has around 400 to 500 pers. There are x 3 Arty Regtswho man the 81 mm mortars,105 mm towed guns, M109, these Regts are about 300 to 400 pers strong. There is also Air defense element which falls under the Arty branch of which there are 2 units...each about 200 to 300 pers....they operate ADATS, 35 mm air defense guns, javlin mis sys, and operate the remote controled recce aircraft. You forgot about the Combat Engineers,the guys that clear the mines, build stuff, .... there are x 3 Regts each about 400 to 500 strong.... then there is the combat service support guys, like HQ's and Sigs Regt, Field Amb,field hosp,Tac Hel sqn ,Svc Bn, i think i got them all, "note" there are no civilians goverment workers taken on any operation...there are civilians companys hired to provide limited support services. tooth to tail ratio is made up of those that can be deployed...Any cilvilain hired by DND can not be deployed during operations....that is what Soldiers are for. I agree with you we need more Combat Arms personal with in the army...,but all those postions in Afgan have been carefully placed to ensure we have a well balanced Battle group, and the clerks are part of those numbers no less no more and just as important.... Armoured guys operate more than just tanks there are the Lav III and Coyote Recce veh....arty are deployed and have been deployed on most operations ,Cyprus, Bosina, and Afgan, manning 81 mm mortars or 105mm towed guns, and even the remote recce aircraft.....trust me it is a well balanced mission that has a sprinkling of all the elements the army has to offer. I think you have a perception that a military person only stays in one postion through out ones carear,one normally stays at one "posting" or place 5 to 8 yrs...depending on trade or rank,then is posted to another area or base, so a person posted to NDHQ "normally" will return to a field unit or another deployable unit, there have been cases where a person has been in a posting for a rather long period of time. but like i said before it is not the norm. The Cilvilain element of DND plays a very critical role, it allows the military members to deploy, while that base or unit can still maintain it's job or function...for instance i'll use MILITARY VEH TECHS, while they are training or deployed cilvilian mechs can repair military vehs ensuring that they are available for training or other operations those vehs are needed. if they "the cilvilians" where not there they would have all that work awaiting for them when the military members got back for training or operations if anything they should be expanded in numbers and grow as the military numbers grow....

Argus: Total numbers for just the Infantry would be around 4800 pers, keep in mind they are not the only Combat Arms ( fighting forces) in the Army there is Armoured Corps,Arty corps, Combat Engs, Combat Service Support. whose numbers round off at just above 16,000 personal. Yes you are right, an effective modern army requires 10 support pers for every combat arms pers deployed. However Canada does not have those numbers maybe a 6 to 1 ratio. And there are 2 soldiers for every officer in the CAF, but this has been a problem for years, to many senior Officer ranks...it is both a polictical and DND problem. Yes they are outsourcing some of support functions to civilain companies, this was orginally done to give the support side a break in the amount of deployments they had to do, at present i believe only 30 to 40 % of the postions are held by these companys, to include supply, cooks,maint ,even some transport postions. DND still maintains a healthy military presence to assist with camp security, and other military duties. The army has approx 16,000 pers in total about 11 to 12,000 are deployablethe rest are unfit,medically or in a non deployable postion, such as the top command element... those pers are divided amongst 3 Brigade groups approx 4 to 5,000 pers each...each brigade group is then divided into 2 battle groups of about 1200 to 1500 personal.... the remainder are used as training cadra... Each battle group trains for 6 months, deploys on operations for 6 months then is supposed to have 1 year to reorganise and get it's people updated on trades courses... that works if Canada only has one mission,but we have serveral ongoing at the same time Bosina ,Haitia and Afgan all draw off the same number of troops to the piont were an army person can almost garentee an operation once a year. Like i have said before you need a good 10 to 1 ratio to maintain the combat arms branch..All those clerks, you talk about take thier turns manning the defensive postions around each camp, do thier share of patrols, veh convoys,etc,etc,they are just as exposed to the bad guys as us Infantry guys. I The Navy was so over tasked it was robbing trained crew from some of the few ships doing refit to go back on operations ....patrolling the gulf in support of operations in Afgan and the current Iraq war.... the Airforce well not so hard hit, but does have a few deployments as well for maritime patrol aircraft, CF-18's for Bosina, and a believe a herc detactment in support of Afgan. So although NDHQ is a large organization, it does contribute to each mission with some of the command element both deployed and in Canada to ensure when the poop hits the fan we that are deployed can get out... My piont is that regardless of your element or job odd's are you are going to be deployed on operations on a regular basis. and until DND really increases thier numbers this will always be a major problem.

Ceasar: Again, you are posting misinformation, during the recruitment phase everyone must take a seris of IQ tests, phyiscal tests, and a full medical...Because of DND's low recruitment numbers they are able to pick the cream of the crop....Todays Non commisioned members have at a min grade 12 or 1 year collage or univeristy...officer requirements are to have one or more degrees eithier earned before hand or earned through the officer training program. I assure you that during the recruitment phase and the Basic training phase all those not mentally stable or have other asperations are weeded out. I joined the military because it was what my father did and his father before him, that and i wanted the adventure to see the world....but after joining it was about joining a very small group of men and women who do have the honour of serving this country.... Not true, current military members number around 53,000 while civilian employees number in around 38,000 that are directly employed by DND. Civilian employee numbers are dropping rapidily, as funding dries up, DND has to make cuts some where.

Ceasar: You can call it what ever you want...but it's as close to war as you can get.... Listen if you are in a veh, approaching a road block, at any great speed ,they will warn you to slow down, if the veh does not slow down if there is room a second warning should be given if there is not enough room you take out the driver...this stops the veh , perhaps the driver needs to trigger the divice manually so by killing him it negates the trigger....people should be scared when they approach a road block....and they should also be mindful of everything going on around them as well...

Black dog: And yet we have made opinions with out all the facts...every american soldier over in Iraq is guilty of a war crime or is trigger happy because you have a litany of US mistakes....how many US soldiers in Iraq today...You have been busting my balls about my remarks about Muslims and yet most not all are doing the same about americans....I've been on alot of combine or multi national operations and the americans are not as bad as you and most on the board paint them to be... you tell me if it is a way of life for everyone in Iraq why ? Trust me if it is you on those check pionts and your life is on the line every second you get good a reading people and their reactions ...most bombers do rush the check pionts so they can use the vehs momnetum to push into or beyond the check piont to kill maxuim numbers... like i said you break the rules you pay with your life...

Black dog: Because it was and still is the only organization that was to ensure that this genicide does not happen. To enforce inter-national law......they knew of it, watch it happening like we all did...they went to work each day and debated it...when the people under them like Gen Dalaire begged ,demanded ,they act.... they sat in thier smug chairs and did nothing but debate....for more than 100 days.....No the UN is full of fat politions from across the globe with no where else to go or do but bumble with world crisises.... If it can't act then it need sto be abolished in regards to military or humanitary events. It can't act to save a nation but would be the first to speak-up on why a nation did not get it's blessing first, before taking military action on another nation. Because we are not going to get every nation in the world to agree on any matter regardless of what it is... perhaps Nato could take the lead form a Multi national military group to act on behalf of another nations people Like solmolia , use military force to feed the masses....Bosina to stop ethinic cleansing...Rwanda to stop the killing....

Black dog: In Afganistan all the afgans i talked to were happy we were there and that they were tired of war,....and they were glad that the taliban were gone.... I bet if you were to ask any of those insurgents why they were fighting it would be just because the US is in Iraq ... other than that they could not tell you why...

Black dog: We don' know anything for sure as none of us were there. nor are any of us privy to any of the evidence , but that does not stop any of us from forming opinoins....alot of opinions here on this board are very bias towards anything american...and assume that any US servicemen involved in any action is guilty as charged .... Mistakes and accidents in a war zone happen every day. they are regrettable most are due to stupid reasons , "they failed to slow down"," the driver did not see the road block"....i ensure you that these road blocks are clearly marked.....everyone in Iraq knows by now what to do when encountering a road block...the Iraqis know US ROE just as well as the US service persons do.... In war you break the rules you pay with your life...it is that simple ....and it all happens in split seconds...

Black dog: the debate on what to do lasted more than 100 days... You enter a hospital, the 2 doctors that are suppose to treat you have decided that they are going to debate your treatment....while waiting for treatment you die...who is at fault....even Canada could have sent enough troops to make a major difference in the Rwanda crisis...by acting first...debating later....this is 800,000 lives we are talking about.... Rwanda was not the only UN failure in this arena of peacekeeping...the list is large.... But your right if even "one"nation such as Canada had come to the aid of Rwanda then many more would have followed....the UN as an an organization will never be able to react fast enough to look after peacekeeping or humanitarian missions period.

Black dog: The people of Afgan seen the soviet invasion as a holy war....the people were stocked...which turned to hatred as the war progressed. Those vicious warlords were fighting each other up until the invasion even then it was an unstable relationship at best...even today... Yes, from a islam propective they may both look the same...but the war on terror is agains'nt OBL and his merry crew not the people of Afgan....OBL is running for his life and will continue to do so until he is brought down by western forces....the west was quite happy with letting him kill the people of afgan....until they attacked the US... What western encroachment ?

Ceasar: I was being sarcastic....in regards to another post made earilar in Ref to Al Quaida. You are refering to the Invasion of Iraq....Because the Arabs in the middle east have been pissed off at the states for decades now.... What agenda is it that they are so afraid of that they would gladly give thier lives up... It's based on thier education at home,in schools, and at place of worship....and from thier peers....that westerns "ALL" westerns from europe or N.A are to be hated...