Army Guy

If the numbers proved anything, then there should be more anti Taliban people on the ground, as they have killed more afghan civilians than all of NATO put together.... Alot of these scumabgs were not from Afghan, but from around the muslim world....they did not care about Afghan and their problems they just wanted to fight.... We have and we will again....defeat all our enemies.....

Al Qaeda was an intergrated part of the Taliban military force, it was used to secure and fight the enemies of Afghanistan.....do you think that the Taliban Chain of command did not know or even sanction Al Qaeda activities...such as 911,.....Al Qaeda brought this war to the US, remember the crashing of those air liners, killing more than 3000.... It was them that took this to another level....they knew the US would react with military force, they knew the US would hunt them down, regardless of where they were. they though they could win some sort of victory, and they knew it would be costly....and yet they were willing to pay that price, just to shed some US blood, with the bonus of killing other westerns soldiers in the process.... You can try and defend them as other human beings, but when it boils down to it, they are murders , scumbags....who also happen to fathers , with feelings for family....but thats where it ends, a normal human does not force a small boy of 5 to strap on a explosive device and peddle his bike towards western soldiers, nor do they force another father to do the same because they have his family, and to ensure their survival he does it....and now his family is without a bread winner, lets not talk about the victims in this war.....most of all Civilian Afghan cas were caused by taliban or terrorists......How does that help out their countrymen Most of the terrorists were foreigners as well from all across the ME, they did not give to shits about the people of Afghan they just wanted to kill US and coalition soldiers..... The intial stages when the US and coalition forces went to war we did invade, we did remove the taliban regime....and forced the Terrorist to find a new home.....but lets not forget, it was the Same US and coalition forces that stuck around to ensure the Afghan people got a chance to vote.....it was the Afghan people that voted in their own government leader.....it was then they asked NATO to stay help them rebuild......It was the elected Government of AFGHAN that decided that the Talban, and terrorist were bad, and needed NATO 's help in providing peace..... The Taliban and the rest of the 16 or more terrorist groups don't want what is best for the Afghan people they want the Afghan population to control, to feed their desire for total control, to them it was sunadys at the soccer games to watch hepless Afghan's be exicuted to them they were nothing more than play things to do with they wanted.....Nice guys and yet some in North America feel sorry for them.....Like i said before i have no regrets.....we were invited , first 9/11, then by the elected government....

And i get what you are saying, but Netanyahus comments are coming as the leader of that nation....meaning despite what the rest of the people say around the table, it is normally the bosses opinion that everyone goes with.....Gen's don't make policy....they follow it... I'm glad as well, talking is always better than direct action...

Your right it is important, when it is placed in context to all spending, and costs....the 42 year version should have been explained that this is just a guess, and that O&M funding is already part of DND ann budget....it won't change all that much unless we get rid of fighters altogether.....as they almost cast the same....In the case of the F-35 the cost to procure the jets is 9 Bil, ...you have said yourself tech is growing so fast that Unmanned fighters is just around the corner.....so our 42 year est may only be 20 years and all that much less....but the public is not told that......they see this massive number and say WTF.....based on 42 years which was picked out of someone arse to start with.....42 years is light years for the avaition industry..... So by accounting for O&M funding in the actual yearly budget which is what is done today 66 % of the ann budget is for O&M , and then accounting for it in the intial purchase price we have accounted for it twice, like i have said before our annual budget for DND would be just under 6 bil dollars as all O&M figures have already been accounted for...I mean we should all be singing from the same page right....

I don't think he has been out of moms basement....just a guess...

your right it does not matter, it is the law..... it was a cheap trick to induce sticker shock to the Canadian citizens, and it worked...as i'm sure if your wife came home and told you she got a great deal on a car just 250,000 over 42 years....you'd say WTF....

Mad does not apply to all nations with a few Nuclear devices....how could it, you think the US pres is shitting his pants because NK has a few devices....I'm saying that currently the US has enough conventional wpns systems at it's disposal to knock out any NK missles before they get spooled up....that would eliminate any MAD would it not....it's simple math i had a few missles now they are gone , now i have none, what is the US going to do now........and lets just say one gets lose , just for aurgument sake....what did the US build the Missle defence system for.....if you did some reading.... just some .....what scares the US is a wall of missles coming from the big players....that is what MAD is all about.....not some little whack job in NK or Iran.....But you can't see that "which is why your a dick, and i'm numbnuts.... Is NK korea or Iran a threat, well from the outside looking in i'd say yes....if they were not a threat why does the US military put so much men and material into surrounding their borders....i mean if they were no threat then why the DMZ....why have men standing on gaurd with live ammo.....Do they do that for other nations.... The US / Israel first nuclear strike on Iran is a product of your imigination, first question would be WHY would they, when they have a massive conventional force to destroy Iran with a few weeks.....turned into another Iraq.... I'd be interested on how it would end the threat of conventional war by the US or Israel...give a souce something that says the US will not attack Iran with conventional forces if Iran has a Nuclear wpn.....Are you saying that Iran would use a Nuclear wpn on their own soil ? how are they going to attack the US homeland.....in a suit case.... It's not gung ho rhetoric it's common sense.....just that your way to smart to see it.... Your goal should be not to get to wrapped up in your self....and to find that tinfoil hat soon....

This is my opinion, i don't think Iran is stable enough to have Nuclear wpns, Why is it that the west does not want them with any nuclear capabilities....Iran has not proven to be that stable guy, in fact many of the leaders in that country would love to see Israel be pushed into the sea....Iran already knows that even a single war head would be very deadly to Israel, and they would not be able to recover form it it would be left in a weaken state enough so that perhaps other ME countries might be tempted to finish them off........that being said Israel has over 400 nuclear wpns, iran would cease to exist along with most of the ME....but that does not seem to frighten Iran or it's leadership....that is the problem.... Does it matter, all that matters is where does the US stand, on the issue of Israel....

Your such a dink, I'm getting tired of you twisting my words around to make your self look like some appionted expert that has been shoveling us shit ....You have already agreed to the fact that the few wpns that Iran will have , and the few that North Korea has can be taken out with US conventional wpns.....If the US had the need to attack NK or Iran for any reason it would do just that, with conventional wpns why is that so hard to understand, that is what the Missle defense system is for......Unless you are saying NK has more missles than the US can intercept then the edge go's to the US....guess that means the game is still on....If you have a source that says different by all means teach me, if you don't then your whole debate is full of shit...your ball...

Look we had this discussion already, US Russia and china France Israel, are members of the big boys club, they have enough wpns system to make it impossiable to destroy them on a first strike, meaning there would be nuclear wpns left for them to launch a counter attack....hence the MAD theory.... North Korea, and soon Iran don't have that option...so once the US takes those few wpns out then what its back to square one, and they would be open to a conventional attack....i know it is a difficult concept for you to understand....there is no MAD theory here...

Tac Nuclear wpns have not been used on an other nation ever....that includes bunker busters ( which most are made from conventional material.) Yes the US would use it's Nuclear wpns in a MAD context or a frist strike if it warrented, but none have been used since they used them on Japan..... DU rounds are not considered a WMD never have.

I think Israel has the most to lose here, regardless who is in power ...for them it is life and death... While what they have said does not come out and say Iran is a whacky state, why is all of them say Iran is not going to get Nuclear wpns period....all opitions are on the table....if Iran was a cool calm memeber of the world then why not....and yet the world has spoken and said no ...why ? is it deep down they think Iran is whacked and is not to be trusted with a Nuclear wpn...Why is Iran not able to obtain a Nuclear wpn, while the world stood by and allowed India, Pakistan....

Yes i do, very much so....what has changed for the taliban, they have been kicked out of Afghanistan....they no longer hold millions of regular Afghanis citizens under thier rule....and yes you can show a few examples of the taliban being human....but i can show you books upon books of their crimes....a couple good moments does not change the fact of whom they are....You say historically education is not been on everyones list and yet, education rates went up after the taliban was de throned.... Big guy i can fill like i said books upon books on just the things i seen...but i don't want you to take my word for it, the inter net is full of other accounts read them please...and decide for your self who these thugs really are... As for hating us "western culture" ya i'm sure ask a few of them....they would be more than gladly inform you, that we are infidels that need to be destroyed without question.... How many of those suicide bombers done what they did on their own free will....Not many, most are forced to save their families,friends etc.....another telling act is most suicide bombers have an escort that can dentonate the bomb via remote means "just incase they change their minds".... I won't lie to you hate did play a role, but it was not they only factor, what the taliban did was take advantage of the Afghanis people through force and terror....up until my first tour i could not of even picked out Afghanistan on a map...i knew nothing of there culture, and ways....what i did know was most of them had lived with 30 years of conflict, and they did not have the means to change that....Canada and it's military could assist in giving them back some of the things that we take for granted but alot of Afghanis had not experienced "freedom"....As a soldier that was worth fighting for....that and the fact that our unit was being deployed, my comrads where being deployed and i needed to be there with them.... Hate does make it easier to pull the trigger, but that does not come until later, pulling the trigger is part of our training, until it is second nature....pulling the trigger is the easy part it is living with your actions that become the hard part.....and like in any war bad things happen, comrads die..killing the enemy is the best way to keep your comrads alive, killing the enemy is the fastest way to end the conflict....killing become part of your routine you did it because of your comrads, family, your country....and to help those that could not help themselfs.... It has always been their chioce, what we westerns think is a mout piont, and we seem to forget that....they have been in constant conflict for well over 30 years, almost a generation, all the people of Afghan want is peace, they don't care what it looks like, to be able to raise their family, feed them, and increase their status in life.....and with the west given up because we lost the will to help...who else are they going to turn to....it is them who will live with the consquences....one they never had when under taliban rule...

Both of you just don't get it....Why would the US use nuclear wpns to fight another nation, when it can accomplish it's goals with conventional wpns a thousand times over....US has spent countless Bils on missle defense just for this one reason. to counter a small nuclear attack from a rougue nation such as Iran, North korea etc Iran does not have a nuclear wpn as of yet, and does not have the means to place it on US soil....even if Iran had a nuclear wpn, at most it would give the US time to pause and figure out how to eliminate this threat via conventional means....If you think Iran will breath a sign of relief once they have a couple of wpns your wrong there still remains the possiablity of military action" the Game as you say will be still on.... What would give the US the most concern would be if they used a nuclear device on their own soil to disrupt a US conventional attack....while Iran is crazy, not sure how far they would go...but i would assume finding Iranian Nuclear wpns would be the first and formost mission of US military....Same with North Korea if there was a cause to attack the north then they would.... With such a massive Conventional military force how could you discount this option.... As for my Israelis example you are under the impresion that both wars were a piece of cake for Israel, you might want to check out some history, Israel got very lucky in the last war they faught.....and you totally threw out the falkland war as an example.... Just because a nuclear nation has not attacked another has not happened as of yet....does not mean it will never happen....

At the time the good Gen makes this quote heard around the country, he was talking about the taliban, and numerous terrorist organizations involved in combat with NATO forces.....did he say it to dehumanize our enemies, so our soldiers did not have issues with pulling the trigger....i don't think so, he said it because it was based on fact, they hated us because of our freedoms,our soiciety, our liberties, our standard of living, and the fact we were not Muslim.....and we hated them because they were murders,scumbags, cowards, who would do anything to hold on to what little power they had over the people of Afghan.... Are they part of the Afghan government today ?....Once NATO leaves what does it matter who makes up the next Afghan govrnment it is their nation and what direction they chose to go is their own choice..... and as for the Americans trading POW's ....no man is left behind a soldiers creed.....sometimes this is all they have to look forward to....besides they do this if he was military, or part of some peace nik group...in the end he is an American Citizen...

Sounds good to me, as for you making your piont "that any country with Nuclear weopons being immune to attack" well lets agree to disagree, i already piont out to you Israel, and as already mentioned on another topic the British and the falkland isles....and well there is the US and 9/11.....I don't agree with your statement once Iran gets Nuclear wpns the parties over in the Middle east...if the US wants to attack Iran, with a few Nuclear assets, i think they would take a pause find a conventional solution and poof Iran will feel the might of the US military....only a fool would think a few wpns makes you safe from any attck or threats....

Your right i was taken into account O&M costs. i stand corrected.

Well your right DND is an insurance policy of some type, we could life without it but their are other costs to that....there are alot of otther debts out there that could be slashed to cut our national debt down as well, if we were serious about doing that....

100 bil is very nice but which projects does that include, i mean the F-35 is slated at 45 bil, and the ships is costed at more than that, does not leave much left over....don't get me wrong it is a good start, provided it carries over to the next government...you know as well as i do that these things can change with one press conference....

What i was refing to was the take after PWSG announced that procument is going to change....at the end of the article the announced 3 projects they were going to work on short term. one was MTV trucks, and i forget the other two, my goggle is down right now, but i'll try and find the source....Now is PWSG priorities the same one would hope but this bun fight has left alot of DND mouths with a bad taste in them... F-35 news is changing daily now, when they actually decide what aircraft is going to take place on the competition i do not know....and perhaps i should of explained my version of short term is....3 to 5 years is short term.....meaning getting a contract in place, signed etc...

Your pretty quick to tell me that i'm full of shit ( Balony) when you say that the detonation will not effect other countries....the link i provide was for a melt down, a small explosion and yet toxic radiation is effecting distant countries.....now if this had been a modern day Nuclear wpn which would of thrown radiative material into the stratosphere it would travel a great distance....your suggesting that the damage would be contained to IRAN....Not true, i call bullshit....and if you can prove it wrong then provide the links that suggest so.... You can deny that no radiactive material did not travel great distances then your not reading the same sources i am. again please provide.....

Sure if it makes you happy, I'm sure everyone is concerned with Pakistans Nuclear wpns as well. As for your assesment of Iran not being a threat, i think the US government as well as most western governments think other wise. If Iran were not a threat why all the fuse about thery're Nuclear wpns program....

And my piont is this having a few Nuk wpns is one thing the abilty to get them on US soil is another...even if Iran had both means ,all it would mean is the US would take a pause find out the location of these wpns and target them via conventional means....and if the situation call for it then a mass conventional attack.... Having a few wpns means nothing, they can easily hunted down and destroyed....and don't think for one minute the US does not have the tech to locate and track everything nuk in Iran....what makes Russian and China different is they have thousands of missles imposable to destroy all of them in one strike...hence the MAD....mad does not apply to a small country with a few wpns....Thats what the missle defense program is for.... you made the comment that Israel was been afforded that imunity to attack because of their nuk wpns program.......well sir, Israel has had a nuk wpn since 1967, and yet has been subject to 2 major wars since then.....either the Arab countries did not know they existed, or it was a ballsy move on their part....How do we explain that ?

"Irrational regimes" like Iran cannot be allowed to have nuclear arms and it is a mistake to think Tehran's ambitions can be contained, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said on U.S. television. http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/07/11/us-nuclear-iran-netanyahu-idUSTRE66A1FI20100711 "So when the president (Obama) says that he's determined to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons and that all options are on the table, I think that's the right statement of policy." http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/07/11/us-nuclear-iran-netanyahu-idUSTRE66A1FI20100711 President Obama told the crowd that "diplomacy backed by pressure" could succeed. He added that, "Iran's leaders should understand that I do not have a policy of containment; I have a policy to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon." http://www.cfr.org/iran/candidates-us-iran-policy/p26798?cid=ppc-Google-issue_tracker-president_on_iran&gclid=COStsorT_r4CFXMR7AodQF0A1A During that debate, Romney stated that it was "unacceptable for Iran to have a nuclear weapon," and referenced the range of economic, diplomatic, and military measures he would employ to deter Tehran. "If you'd like me as the next president, they will not have a nuclear weapon," he said. http://www.cfr.org/iran/candidates-us-iran-policy/p26798?cid=ppc-Google-issue_tracker-president_on_iran&gclid=COStsorT_r4CFXMR7AodQF0A1A And your right maybe some people within Iran are reasonable, but here is some world leaders that think a little differently, they either think Iran and it's leadership is a little whacked....or they agree that perhaps Iran is not ready for a nuk wpn.....

Full of baloney, sure below is a link to a Nuclear accident in Chernobyl, this is a small explosion, with limited piosoning, and yet the city of 14 k and the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant, the area won't be safe for human habitation for at least 20,000 years. read the link rad levels were recorded as far as europe...I can just imigine a 1 to 5 mega ton missle strike on say Iran and how far the radicative plume will travel.... http://www.livescience.com/39961-chernobyl.html A radioactive cloud quickly travelled with the winds over large areas of Europe. Most affected were Belarus, Ukraine and the western parts of Russia. After the accident, a significant increased level of radioactive Iodine could be found in agricultural products from the area, e.g. in milk. Radioactive Cesium has polluted large forest areas, where high levels of radioactivity have been found in berries, mushrooms and animals. While the radioactivity in agricultural products reduce with time, the level of Cesium in forest products will remain high for decades to come. This is not only affecting the areas close to the accident, but also the northern parts of Scandinavia, where contaminated reindeer meat poses problems to the Sami people. (6) http://www.slmk.org/larom/wordpress/en/biology/ From the 15-megaton thermonuclear device tested at Bikini Atoll on March 1, 1954 - the BRAVO shot of Operation CASTLE - the fallout caused substantial contamination over an area of more than 7,000 square miles. The contaminated region was roughly cigar-shaped and extended more than 20 miles upwind and over 350 miles downwind. Fallout can also enter into the stratosphere. In this stable region, radioactive particles can remain from 1 to 3 years before returning to the surface. http://www.atomicarchive.com/Effects/effects19.shtml