Army Guy

Canada's history is written in blood, our blood, and the blood of our enemies. Canada has a long list of things that would make people blush or little girls pee in thier pants....in fact one would be hard pressed to find any one nation within this world of ours that has not got blood still dripping from thier hands....To sum it all up "what is the piont" ? we are not perfect, lets concede to that piont now, nobody is....All that is left is trying to better our selfs day by day, year by year....to which i think for the most part we do all right....But as long as man roams this great earth, there will be a need for wpns and there will be blood split.... We do what is needed to be done for survival, to protect our current freedoms and rights, our way of life, to preserve our postion within the world, we do it for alot of reasons....we don't have to understand them all completely, and there will be times when yes our hands will get bloody, and those standing next to us will reak of death and destruction... But Canadians will continue to wake up in the mornings fill thier faces with egg mac muffins, timmies coffeee , and go to work and make very decent wages....I don't here of anyone saying holly shit look at what we've done to get here....thats it i quit i'm going to the south pole to live the clean life...

They are not tried as an adult but rather under the youth justice system. Maple leaf forums actually did an article on the youth justice system it's a good read. For some reason today it won't allow me access, but below is the link. My linkwww.mapleleafweb.com

Not 73 wrongs, those 73 are currently serving time, there as been thousands that have been tried and that have served "life sentences " for crimes they have commited....found guilty by a jury, sentenced by a judge. i guess your blanket statement holds no water...or our justice system is completely broken...

I think the justice system has already answered that question , As provided by AM "currently" there are 73 persons that have been held responsiable and accountable for thier crimes that were committed as youths. What makes Omar any different than these 73 ?, his upbringing ?...your not suggesting that we only sentence those with good upbringing are you ? That is not what is spelled out under the child soldier defination, provided by the UN, or it's creator. It does leave provisions for the child to be held accountable and responsible for thier actions....no were does it say they are not culpable, in the legal sense.. What does that mean exactly....he gets to spend his time in a hospital...and those other 73 get to spend thier time behind bars....not because thier crimes where more deserving but rather Omar is a child soldier, and gets a free ride ?

Feds appeal some of the sentences given to toronto 18. This may be good news. My linkwww.thestar.com/news

Some info to ponder on.... My linkwww.theglobeandmail.

So basically we are saying that we have an inter-national law, that Canada has agreed to and signed on to but has no teeth, nor do we have the will to enforce it. but rather it's total purpose is to allow the accused an out, to claim "they are child soldiers" and should be treated with kid gloves...given light sentences and set free with some guidence from his family.....I can't wait until this is made into a movie...how does it end...Does arnold get a part, maybe sly stone, can play the final Rambo.. When the author of this law states it's intentions are NOT so much as to punish the child, but rather he gets all the help they need, but does preclude holding that child responsiable for his crimes....he also states the main intention of the law is to go after and punish those involved in recruiting , brain washing and forcing these children into that life....or is this last statement just a bunch of BS.... Reading that in which is being thrown around here like a bad joke, means that YES we can hold the child responsiable for his own actions...And YES we can go after dear mother, for bringing up her son, for her part in his brain washing...which at one piont she tried to convince serveral of her sons to become suicide bombers....leaves me shaking my head...Is there an historical precedence i'm not aware of...can mothers indoc thier children into this terrorist life , then asked them to take there own lives and murder others, thats acceptable today ?

You made the comment , it was you that made the comparison, you explain how we can comapre the 2...this is your quote below is it not....It clearly indicates that you do not have a firm grasp on the defination of freedom fighter or terrorist. Suggesting that a terrorist has a moral code and is guided by it is what i'm interested in hearing about. DO you think our culture is debased and immoral because our women run around half naked, have sex on video, let homosexuals run free ? Are you also stating that all the muslim countries that these people or accusers are from, are free of all the above accusations... How American troops got into this topic is beyond me, But we know the conversation is going well when "someone yells" the Americans do it...But i think the key words in your post are "Found guilty" meaning they broke a law, you know the laws that are somewhat based on the morals and values of the country putting them in place...Suggesting that we uphold our morals and values though our laws, and do not tolerate those actions within our communities....Are we perfect ...far from it...are we evolving to become better i think so.... Another reason why we must ensure we remain the dominant power then...I don't think our women folk would take to kindly to wearing burkas in public, being whipped for showing some ankle, becoming pocessions with no rights, no education , the list goes on ....are these the morals and values you subscribe to....that are really better than ours...Sorry i'll take thongs , porn, and gay rights any day before i'll excuse grown men cutting the hands off a small girl for going to school, throwing acid in young girls faces....because they want to read and write ....thats some group you route for...

Argus i actually had to sit down and regroup my thoughts before i posted the first time, I like you was pissed,that within our military system we missed everything...Then i was pised at the Col for tarnishing a great organization, which people have bled for, just to be a part of it.... It is true that all miliatary pers are evaluated, for leadership skills ,supervision abilities, job knowledge,intiative,and many more all designed to give a brief outlook on how that person performed that year, concentrating on performance...not detecting any mental problems...His superiors have said many times he was a rising star....and while he may have been good at his job, he was better at hiding his problem "what ever that may be" he kept it from his wife, his family, his co workers, his neibours everyone.... I once had a crusty old SGT Major, a left over from the Korean war....ya it's going back to the day....had a personality of a bulldog, rarely smiled, always barking at someone...and yet when the shit hit the fan, like the opening days of Bosina he was the one we wanted in charge...He knew his shit and saved many lives that tour...I know there is not much of a comparison here but rather to show you it's preformance driven. And no, this is not like a construction worker. This is the frigging base commander. As someone said on one of the newscasts, it's like the police wind up arresting the mayor as a serial killer. And where does that ever happen outside bad television?

True enough. No a freedom fighter that engages in terrorist activities is still a terrorist Oh please explain, how a terrorist has morals? ethics...would you say cutting off a young girls hands is having morals and ethics...would you say killing her father in front of her was having moral or ethics...would you say skinning a man alive , leavehim to bake in the sun is having morals and ethics.... or are you just saying they have them. and have not explained them yet.... As for morals and ethics of a murder i'm not going to even try. i, like you have no time for them....unlike you i have no time for terrorist either....

Your not comparing the too are you ? ....A murderer and rapist to a terrorist....

Do you read any of your posts....just curious first you quote on read about our secret airbase in the middle east ....then say it's not secret any more....then ask where is it....nobody knows those two guys in black suits and sun glasses show up just before take off with them they're fance bick pens with the shinney caps...all i remember is smile....and poof...you wake up in the middle of the atlantic, croaking a smoke and a good stiff drink....shit, even the stewardess is wearing green...can't seem to catch a break...

One question are Murder and rape within the genva convention, have we a rubber stamp that we smack each soldier as he gets on the plane for overseas "cleared for rape and murder" no we don't it's not tolerated at all...This guy drove planes for a living....and would not have been subjected to any "ARMY traing" with exception of waving goodbye as we exited the ramp, or during his escape and evasion training... Your wrong here, operators of drones get to see one piece of the battle, in a black and white image, or hazed green, Grunts on the ground get the full screen color addition...in slow mo...ankles deep in what ever those drones happened to turn into pink mist....and while i'm not saying some airforce wienie drinking fresh hortins from just outside a nice safe base in Canada is not stressed or can get stressed....what i'm saying is you can not compare the 2....giving orders to kill anyone is stressfull, give that order and assist in it being carried out that is where the rubbber hits the road....Pulling that trigger is the most important decision of your entire life...it is you and you alone that will carry that for the rest of your life, every time you close your eyes they are going to be there like some cheap b movie....and while the guy who may of ordered it happen may say he feels your pain...he's full of shit...it's not the same...

I would have thought that a better example of power though fear and intimidation would have seen the Kid drop his crack at the end of the driveway as he would have been terrified to gwet caught inside by the old man with it....here it shows the kid really did not fear him and took the risk anyways.... I think a better example would have been in the days when the mafia ruled most of NA, or perhaps, stalin in mother Russia...Hilter and germany...

I read though some of these posts and can only shake my head, how quick we are to piont out blame with our twisted fingers , spitel flying from our mouths....But it is our national past time, better than a hockey game (for some) always looking to blame some nation, groups , or individual for our problems... It's hard to accept just the facts that this accused is Canadian, one of us , and will always be Canadian just like us...Yes he was in the Military, had been for years had an accomplished carear up until now, recruited out of the masses of other Canadians, once again making him one of us...does that make the crime any worse than it is, would it have been different had he been a construction worker, plumber, doctor, lawyer...No, the crime would have been just as hideous... How policitics even plays in this entire shit show is beyond me, do we do that with every criminal ask them their voting status and then hang that on that party to wear as a badge of dishonor...does it even play a role in the this shit show....was he hearing hapers vioce in his head,"kill for the conservative party" Security clearences, anyone have one done....It's a series of questions into your back ground history, and then those same questions are asked of the references you've named, and other sources are checked as they come up...if this guy could keep this from his wife, who he lives with 24 and 7 then odds are he'd be able to keep it from everyone else...i'm just guessing.... No one will know what made this guy snap, if we had those answers we'd be crime free would we not...what we do know is he has been charged....him and him alone...not Harper, not the conservatives, Liberals, or NDP, or the military just him...Sorry to undress the parade...pack away the confetty, the banners...

hear i found these on the CF web site you'll find ANA projects on both the ISAF site, and JTF afghan site, although they are small timbits of info pieced together they may provide a larger picture... My linkwww.comfec-cefcom.

And yet our laws and history is full of children being held responable for thier crimes, and in some cases where those crimes where so bad they where tried as adults for thier crimes explain that....Are we being hyprocrictal, I think all thats happen is we closed that loop for minors to get away with light sentences for serious crimes.... Are you freakin serious, Wyly did you not claim at one time to have served our military? ...And while i've prayed to the big guy many times during combat operations it was because dying scare the crap out of me...hence why the fear., ...make no doubt about it most soldiers in our military do fear death, we learn to control that fear, because our survival depends on it ....as without it you'll soon find yourself in a bag... As for the after life, kind of heard to explain that one as no one really has any proof of what happens after your dead, what we see on the battle field is torn up bodies, nothing to suggest that dying is an religious experiance where you see lights and greeted at the gates by anything let alone 40 virgins dress in the latest in thong attire...And while i do have strong sexual urges they do not trump my will to stay in the present,as a mortal being....

She won't because we don't have the leadership or stones to do so...becuase Canadians have been blinded by the Khadrs, the movement to have him brought home, set free is huge, a payout will follow to cleanse our hands and minds...Justice hoever will have nothing to do with it.... Not doing so because bad things will happen is bullshit, i would have thought bad things would have happen to the US for hold one of her children....and we still wait....NO the US justice system will do what we Canadians have failed to do, give him his day in court, and pass a sentence befitting his terrorist activities...

I think you miss the piont here, regardless of which army or which nation you decide to enlist in, be it an enemy of the state or not each soldier is responsiable for his or her own actions....and if those actions are terrorist in nature then that soldier is deemed a terrorist, precluding you from protection under the conventions and inter-national law....The laws are quite clear, Most nations claim you must be a citizen of thier country to join, there are exceptions as you've listed, Here in Canada you must be a canadian citizen, to join the military or RCMP...The USMC you need to be a citizen of the US, however you can join the army, navy, or airforce without being a citizen,....as for the French foreign legion, it was once a home to malcontents, and criminals, however todays FFL is now a very different place with most of there personal being of french decent, those few that are not upon completion of service where granted french citizenship.

You seem to be a smart person, and i know you already have the answer to the question you posed.... How could Canadians fighting under uniform for the US army be considered terrorists....next what is the defination of a terrorist....If irishmen engaged in terrorist activites while fight then yes that would make them a terrorist....if not what does that make them ?

Here is what i do know from statements provided, there was in fact 3 wpns found in the ally way that Omar was found in, a pistol found by Omar. one rifle recently fired, found next to dead guy , also a rifle recently fired found a couple of feet from Omar....DO we have proof that will stand up in a court of law...Nope....But it's kind of like finding a pile of crap on your kichen floor, and turning and seeing someone with the pants down to their knees and toilet paper still stuck to his ass....I can't prove it but i'm pretty sure he did...

I just want to remind everyone that while i do have personal experience on the ground i am not an expert on all things Aghanis and posters should continue with further research... my intention is to give all a different picture that is not always made clear in the media. and to perhaps provide some insite into some posters incorrect information. No sorry no site, just military briefings , updates that sort of thing. That being said all one has to do is gage what is happening in the media, every operation ongoing for sometime now has a Major portion of ANA attached with it. In regards to what exactly ? Soldiers are being constantly brief on the stratigic postion of our country NATO, and briefed Daily on the tactical level. I know below is the party line but it is what soldiers are constantly being told and all our work is gear around. The first four priorities focus primarily on Kandahar. Canada is helping the Government of Afghanistan to: maintain a more secure environment and establish law and order by building the capacity of the Afghan National Army and Police, and support complementary efforts in the areas of justice and corrections; provide jobs, education, and essential services, like water; provide humanitarian assistance to people in need, including refugees; and enhance the management and security of the Afghanistan-Pakistan border. Nationally, Canada is helping to: build Afghan institutions that are central to our Kandahar priorities and support democratic processes such as elections; and contribute to Afghan-led political reconciliation efforts aimed at weakening the insurgency and fostering a sustainable peace. One has to remember alot of our soldiers spend alot of time out side the wire, living amoungst afghanis they see first hand just what cumstances and challages these people live with every day of thier lives...Challanges such as getting clean water, cooking a simple meal, feeding thier children.... plus they get to see war from both sides, thiers and ours....we see first hand the effects of suicide bombers on a market full of cicilians as we are the first to respond, control and clean up these every time they happen....we also see the effects of war when we engage Taliban or terrorist forces....and all of it's after math....That and the fact is Canadain soldiers have a massive will and drive to help, and in afghanistan it's easy to find someone to help....be it giving kids school suppies, building a school firehall, fire trucks, ambulances, hiways , dam projects, wells , irrigation ditches ....you name it we've built it... I can't speak for all soldiers, but i will comment on our past missions with or under the UN, for me Bosina was a nightmare...Watching war crimes take place only to record them and report them to Higher...something that is very hard to do is watch while you know you have the training , wpns, and equipment to save lives...but can't...very frustrating....In Afghan that was all changed under NATO we had the ability to stop war crimes, we could use our training , wpns and equipment to save lives...to push the bad guys back...it meant i guess for me i could do some good , and when the bad guys needed a bitch slap, they got it.. I told this story a few times, on my first tour, during a rather long foot patrol, we stopped for lunch, i noticed a young girl staring at us, so i invited her over to share my lunch....through our translator...i learned alot about the afghan people that day, you see she had her hands cut off by taliban soldiers, and her father was killed in front of her....her crime was going to school... i know it sounds far fetched, all she wanted to do was honor her fathers death by going to school....and while i sat there watching her devour my lunch listening to her story with no hands and the skills of a surgern she was done before the rest of us...And here i thought i had problems , here i thought my only problem was to survive the foot patrol survive the tour and get back to my family....and here was a 8 year old girl, who had it all figured out, she forgave those who disfigured her, killed her father....and only wanted to go to school educate herself and make a better life for her and her family....YA it left me with a few tears, and a promise, if i could prevent this from happening just once then all my blood sweat and tears would be worth it..What i still have not been able to do is forgive those that have done this and many other crimes again'st thier own people..

The map in your link is of Pakistan. not Afghanistan.

You are arguing on whats going on on the ground right now. But you've also painted the entire mission with one brush....The majority of Afghans want what every human being wants after 30 plus years of war...peace, jobs, a secure future for thier children...So while tribal culture does play a role in Afghan polictics, it is not the leading role, Keeping the Taliban from returning is ....building a better future for thier children is, having a job so they can feed thier family is.... Yes we've been there 8 yrs, however insurgence warfare is a whole new ball of worms, and for the most part NATO is brand new at this type of combat...new tactics and stratagy is always ongoing....and involves more than just combat,there is a massive learning curve to include Governmental liason at all levels of government, Policing, building up infra structure,....And you know what up until recently these where all Canadain military functions, or ideas maybe a quick read from some of the books written about the Afghan mission and what it entails would give you a deeper idea on the what we do over there...Read Hilliers book it will give you a over all look on what our nation has done...from the Afghan government level down to pte on the ground... If you think it's ugly today ( still not a renown tourist vaction spot) but not the wild west shit show , as when we first arrived....The taliban openly control vast areas of Afghan, they don't today...infact they don't control much of anything now...

The decisions i'm talking about is the one he took just before and during the day of his capture, US and Afghanis Soldier's gave the entire villiage a warning, gave the civilains time to vacate the village...Omar decided he was staying....Omar could have surrendered at any time he decided not to.... Omar decided to take up arms and fight....