Army Guy

And that does not concern liberals.....After Justins speach there are alot of liberals that disagree with justins postion, in fact many are concerned that it goes against past liberal policy. Many are saying that this could be the boost that Harper needs.

Are people voting of the liberals because the just hate the cons, or are they ready to put in the liberals because Justin is the better man.... I'm not really happy with the cons either, but sorry i do not think Justin is capable of making those tough decisions, i watched the interveiw with him on the ISIL problem, and left more confused than ever. Can anyone tell me what the liberal view is on this topic, becuase i did'nt get it from justin.

Big guy it seems you have already pigioned holed all those people that support getting involved with ISIS. I know there has been comments about the nobility even the necessity of getting involved, all to no avail on those that just see it as a big mistake, a big waste of time , lives and funding..... And yet there seems to be alot more at stake here than just saying, nope not our problem....let them sort it out on their own.... It seems that Iraq can not do that, infact they have asked for inter national help....what you and others are saying is we should deny them any assistance, close the blinds let them figure it out... I've asked many times what about inter national law, the conventions , how many of these has ISIS broken, disregarded, and dared the west to intervene, even sending out big ball warnings saying your next we will not stop until we control the planet.....my question is why is nobody doing anything about all of this, the UN has condemned them saying that they have committed war crimes, crimes again'st humanity along with rape and murder....is there any diplomatic talks that can presure this guys into stopping.....and peaceful solutions that can be brought to bear to stop ISIS.... Because i have not heard of any that are being brought forward......So if we are not going to uphold these laws what is the piont in signing onto to them.....or is it all a big show....I thought it was these very laws that have been woven into our morals and values.....or is all that just talk as well.....I mean without these very morals and values we claim to hold so dearly, the very ones that hold us back from returning back to the stone ages..... We don't solve problems with just walking over to our neibors house and kicking the shit out of them, taking what we want, and leaving.....that is exactly what is happening right now with ISIS... What of the humanitarian issues here, do we close the blinds to that as well......do we even bother asking how this all effects the stabilty in the region.....do we care who else gets dragged into this problem.....what of turkey, a member of NATO, ? what do we tell them when they come asking for help..... Instead we are worried sick about how many more bad guys will we create, how will they feel after wards , my answer to that is who cares, they should have thought about that before they picked up wpns and started killing anyone that was not the same religion, color, race, etc etc.....They decided to take this course of action......in my opinion the whole world should be disgusted, and with one voice and one action the world should take direct action....crush these cock roaches once and for all....

Yes i do, there are a lot of topics on this forum that are very interesting to me, and i do enjoy debating with everyone, but there are some topics that are near and dear to me, and i'm very passionate about, those topics i do my best to persuade them to see it my way.... Don't get me wrong Big Guy their is a learning curve for both sides ,mine included and sometimes i do see it their way, and change my opinon.

Rue, i think they get it just fine, everyone has an opinion, right or wrong it's always going to be out there.....i try to persuade them to my side but i'm not very good at articulating all my ideas so i keep at it. that and the fact my grammar and spelling is horriable....which i agree one or the reasons i post here is to improve all of that....I just hope that someone can see the same things i have through my lenses to provide another prespective....

I disagree , humanitarian needs was on the list, along with some others.....Again Iraq was about UN sanctions being ignored, and all the violations that went with that....once again, someone has to take actions, or there will be no consquences to violating the rules....if that is the case why have them.... Afghanistan and her coalition decided to take on the US directly....and it cost them big time.... Is it, what other ways could the US help those in both of the above countries..... Nor have you answered the question as to why not, if we as a nation have the resources and talent to help why not, i mean there was plenty of men and women willing to do so, all you had to do is pay some taxes.....which you did anyways....and for that minimal investment we help those in need .....yes we could have done it cheaper, but nobody knows how, or would it have proven sucessful...... Afghanistan was almost destroyed in over 30 years of conflict....yes it is still dependent on foreign funding does that make it any less of an improvement....we are leaving in mass numbers, a new president is in charge , and your right it will be some time before we see massive impovement....generations in time will be needed.....and i hope your wrong....but i have placed my faith in the Afghanistan people

France for the most part has been in the back gorund for most of these coalition issues. infact they were striking ISIS before anyone brought forces to bare. Things have changed dramatically on the ground since then, the problem has grown much larger, ISIS is now holding ground, refugees are running in all directions, ISIS is killing in mass. the Stability in the whole region is threatened....Why did it change well nobody did anything to stop it, and it is now grown to it's current size.....a size that current Iraqi forces can not deal with..... It is one of the many reasons they hate us, we have so much our standard of living is so good, and they live in squaler....so yes it is one of the many reasons... I don't question that, everyone plays a role some how directly or indirectly, so ya most of us are tools for the government, it is what you do in that service that counts, we are not robots with pre programed brains that have no room for free thinking....Yes the government sets a broad objective for all of to operate under....and yet soldiers also find the time to build schools, fire stations, even gather their own funds to buy fire trucks and abulances.....this is what made Canadian soldiers popular in our AO, not the governments direction....but rather on how we got the job done.... I'm sorry to hear that is how your friend looks upon his service, as a tool for a failing policy.....when in fact he did alot more than that...he made a difference , although it may be small he still made a difference....As for our government using us for a different agenda....or bad intentions, in my mind i don't think so....i can't think of any role that Canada has played where it had bad intentions....

I think it is more than that, Soldiers join the military for many reasons, and while i can't speak for them. I know one of the reasons i'd joined was to help in some way to make a difference, Sure we are aware of the scaraifice that might have to be made, and yes we do follow orders, but in reality we are the ones on the ground, we are making the small decissions that may or may not effect the lives of others....again we are under the direct control of our government but it is the soldiers that carry out those orders, putting their own personal spin on them.....You can't make a difference if your not willing to get in the game..... For me it is hard to watch on TV , thousands of lives being wasted because some group of thugs want to play by different rules.....rules that are set in place for our own protection, to try and hold the world together without exploding..... Bin Ladin and his merry band of thugs were terrorists period....not soldiers but terrorists bent killing anyone that did not fall into their way of thinking.....they had no connection with the Afghanis population, other than thats where they were staying....they brought instabilty to the area, killed thousands of Afghanis, and others...and were exporting thier terror network across the globe.... Going after Bin Ladin or for that matter any terroist organization does have it's risk, 9/11 was one of those risks....there is a saying all evil needs to exist is for good men to do nothing....And while many of the people here have already crossed out military action, to combat these guys nobody has given another solution....So my question is When do we even consider taking any action... If the west did not interfer in lets say ISIS do you think that they are going to stop with just creating a new home land for Sunni's , they have already said they will not stop, even produced a map on what there new territory will look at , it includes places like spain, etc....so we alreay know of their intentions....do we have to wait until they are at our shores......do you think the west will be free from any of their direct actions... There are, but the current US military or for that matter any coalition force is not large enough to make any difference in all the current worlds hotspots, it is a pick and choose hope for the best situation. And the US does not feel that way, they are the biggest kid in the room, and nobody else wants the job, it's kind of forced on them..... http://www.journal.dnd.ca/vol14/no1/page19-eng.asp

Well if everyone did their part in the world , i would think we could cut those nasty little wars in half, but in todays world there is only a couple of fire houses willing to put those fires out.....US britain and france some of the times.....Canada, well Canada contributes to what it can, only because we don't have much..... You asked a good question WHY ? well sir i have asked this many times, Here in Canada we have freedoms that most nations only dream about, for the most part we can provide for our families, with food, shelter, and clothing.....in fact we provide so much that we end up throwing a good portion away.....to the trash, or good will, or local food bank.....not many Canadians that are as poor as these people from 3 rd world nations, that don't know what the true meaning of the word freedom means or feels like.....So while we sit down to our 3 in steak, mountains of fries with gravy, to watch the hockey game we should be asking why not ? I mean we have the men and women in this country already that would gladly do the job, all it takes is for the tax payer to cough up maybe 25 extra dollars a year to pay for the deployment.....maybe a few extra dollars to give us some equipment.... And poof we are sending little girls to school, building dams and bridges, rebuilding a nation..... You question Afghanistans involvement, and yet where are they are they hiding in the local streets, NOPE, on the fringes of Aghanistan, NOPE, they hide in pakistan, and cross over when they want to create a shit storm.....you make lite of little girls going to school, well they are and that is the next generation of Afghanistan citiizen that will help mold their future....I had the great honor with sharing my lunch with one of those little grils, who sacrificed both her hands for her education, plus her father, and was forced to watch as they raped her mother........and after going though all that she still in school, trying to honor her fathers sacrifice.......she came over to me to say thank you. As we where helping rebuild her school.....for me that was worth every second i had spent in the 50 plus degree heat, carrying around close to 100 lbs of fighting and dieing equipment.....that whole 10 min conversation we had.....for me meant i had decided to something that was right, to bring some change into her world.....I know that most tax payers did'nt have the same reaction to the government spending their 50 bucks a year.....but for me i was a deciding factor to go back two more times. pI spent well over 2 years of my life in Afghan , i was their in the early years, and near the end , i've seen the changes from war torn cities that were leveled by 30 years of war, to new infra strucute, power, intra net cafes, floushing busineess ...it was not perfect , but it is a great start.....Today we see another president elected, there and the people of Afghanistan are holding their breaths to see which way he will lead them ......this is just the start of the journey, how can we for certain be so critical....and yet we were there almost 10 years, on average each tax payer was billed out no more than 25-50 dollars a year....to give millions a chance to have a taste of freedom we have today....i'm thinking we got a bargin....

What your article fails to mention is that in Iraq Shia makes up 60 to 65 % of the population, and just by numbers alone that would mean they would have those same numbers in government. The Sunni's which make up 30 to 35 % of the population are unhappy, and yet they are represented in their government by the same presentage....go figure... And yet the sunni's have commanded Iraq for almost a hundrd years now, during that time the made it a sport to hunt down and kill SHia Imans etc....but also not reportily but in fact the Shia was the poorest in Iraq..... http://www.commdiginews.com/world-news/would-iraqs-sunnis-want-to-be-treated-like-saudi-arabias-shia-21205/ So now the Sunnis claim they are being mistreated by the current government , and have taken it upon themselfs to armed themselfs and kill as many as those damn shia guys as they can, trying to claim what they think is theirs.......if only they were being as treated as badly as they claim they might have a piont....instead they have taken up arms and made terrorists out of them selfs..... What gives them the right, to take what they want, Am i missing something in inter national law, the conventions..... rather than try to change it from within, via normal means .....becuase that is what they have done.....they decided we don't like you, be over to kill you and take your stuff....and unless you can tell me i'm wrong.....and there is no laws or conventions that prevent this type of action or bahavior.....So now it comes done to whom will take action and punish this hooligans.....and everyone pauses.....turns their heads to the man at the back, with the red white and blue drapped over his shoulder.....and the Americans are the bad guys all over again.....which is great because that fits with our national moto.....and past time.....To blame them for the worlds problems, if we did'nt have the americans to talk about i don't think we would even talk.....Ok maybe theres the french.... If there is no reaction by the inter national community, then these guys and the others across the globe will mobilize their armies and take what they want....re drawing the maps across the globe....in fact i'm thinking about doing it right now, claiming southern New Brunswick for just me and my dog , my quad, and my 30-30 winchester...."its bear season" and the other red necks have had way to much to drink.....

And while it is not a CBRN enviroment it should be treated just like one.....ebola does not give you any second chances....it is deadly with no cure no vacine, no treatment ......Atleat with nerve gas i can inject myself with antropine ...ebola ,the padra comes over gives you last rites then you get carried out the back door..... I ask you because nobody else can say why.....Why is it that ebola is required to be kept at a level 4 or higher facility....why do these people that work with ebola get dressed up like NASA getting ready for a space walk..and some people on here are telling me that is bullshit....all you need is a gown some gloves and a mask.....and your golden.....why does the US military team for controling these type s of viruses also get dressed up like nasa.....when it comes to ebola....seem like your doctors who have died are guilty of not practicing the simple basics of washing their hands wearing PPE .....oh wait where they dressed up like NASA....nope, were they in a Full containment suit with its own oxigen system.....nope.....and their dead right.....yup.....see a pattern yet.....

So what everyone is saying is that every medical professional is trained to fight, mange, and control virus up to and including ebola.....or are they saying that any with the knowledge ofstopping the infection from spreading could concor this virus.....no speacial training required....because every military member has just that training.....in fact any one with a st john abulance course could do just that..... ebola is one of the most deadlist virus on the planet....and requires more protection than just gloves and a mask....sorry...any medical staff guy will tell you that.....

Hey i will admit, i know very little about medical PPE and how a field hospital is run.....what i do know is they do not operate in a CBRN enviroment, nor so they have the containment required to contain ebola.....they have problems containing gastro let alone ebola....there PPE is the same as every soldiers PPE , paper masks , rubber medical gloves.....and for the surgical side they have aprons and full face masks......not sure how that would keep medical staff safe for ebola.....when as i said the people in say the level 4 facility in winnipeg don't just pull this stuff out of the frezer with a simple pair of rubber gloves and a paper mask.....then there is the question why do they need a level 4 facilty..... I'm sure you have a source for that deployment....All that being said would they have the equipment needed to deploy servral hundard at a time....

If it is as easy as you say, why is it continuing to spead, why have medical pers died ....you say poor conditions....do you think those conditions are getting any better with a field hospital......or dart team.....canvess tents are canvess tents, they are not air conditioned.....maybe the medical sea cans are but they are not for storing patients......the tents are ..... and again i ask you why does these labs take such precautions when dealing with this virus....in such a controled enviroment.....in the field they have to deal with mobile patients puking, shitting, pissing themslefs daily....and all with a paper suit and paper mask and rubber gloves.....

you guys talk as if this was a common cold virus.....this is ebolya a virus with no cure no treatment, it has a mortality rate of 80 % or greater......and thses guys will be up to their chests in infected people all day 24 hours a day....until they either cure this lot or they die, or our dart or field hospital dies out...

So you can id who has who does not, how do you treat them and still minimise the danger to your staff.....how do you contain the ebola...with just canvass tents,

Im sure it is the conversation at the supper table. but again millions have died with the aids virus, , and it claims lives of candians every year....and yet there is no herc on the tarmac with a vacine.....just like rwanda...we talked about it, shit we even debated the shit out of it in parliment and yet we watched as hundrads of thousands were bucthered in the streets....after it was all over we even had the balls to ask why delaire was so stressed out for.....instead we said can you pass the butter.....That is not concern or even giving a rats ass....thats sticking our heads in the sand and hope it does not cross our borders.....

Maybe i am, so are you saying that the labs are over thinking this issue, they take to many precautions...why does the American military team deploy to any ebola crisies with full medical containment suits.....are they being to cautious.......

This whole thing is starting to sound like parliment debate, DND says we don't have the right equipment or training to do that mission....parliment says pack your bags.....we get on an aircraft and stumble around until we find a solution.....in the mean time soldiers die.....some citizens will weep, and say poor bastards, others will say thats what we pay them for......suck it the fuck up.....the others will say they don't need all that money, to buy all that new equipment....it's cheaper to bury them than it is to equip them.....If the Canadian public is so concerned about what is happening in africa right now then they will agree to pour bils into defense and equip us for the mission.........but at the end of the day Canadians don't give a rats ass what is happening in africa....as mentions by dereck how many have died in the aids thing.....and how many are infected in Canada.....and who is standing right now in front of parliment waving signs we must mobilse now before it becomes a major issue......Goggle earth says no one......

What i am aware of is , it is deadly and has a 25 to 100% motality rate, there is no know cure at this time, which means there is practically no treatment either, except making the patient comfortable and letting the ebola take it's course..... I also know that there is only a handle full of special facities in north american that have or experiment with ebola.....that has got to send a message , why is that....becuase it is so deadly.... Your under the impresion that putting on some rubber gloves and a paper mask you'll be OK......i guess those volunteer doctors that have already contracted the ebola have proven that theory wrong.....I wonder what kind of PPE that those people working at those speacial facilites that experiment with ebola wear.....pretty sure it is a fully contained suit, with breathing appartus, in a sealed and contained room....with dozens of secutity measures what does our field hospital have , none of the above.....

Your right i have no expertise in the medical field, i've been through these field hospitals and role one through 5 hospitals , both as a cas or deliverying cas they are not set up do treat this type of medical care....they are set up and equiped to handle military type cas....thats it..... i'd like to know how many of these hospitals in Canada are set up to contain and treat ebola.....can't be that many, if the states only has a handfull....

A field hospital is a collection of tents, surgons, doctors and various medical techs, they are there to process battle field cas...it's a collection of tents and medical sea cans.....they are not set up to contain or treat ebola.....US military has special units for this, that are tied to their national control centers....they would not have any usefull medical aid to offer other than making patients comfortable and watch them die....how is that useful....How is that a good use of resources..... Now if containment would be through military force then yes, Canada could send in troops.....

Just because the some one with in the nation is sending it does not mean that DND has it or are familar with working with it....

I think there is a huge misconception on what Dart can do and what they can not do, to start with the Dart is not a ready maned unit, filled with guys with specfic training but rather one that is made up on the fly of various people with a broad level of training such as Combat Engineers to run the ROPU unit for water, heavy equipment guys for construction, military doctors and nurses and medics.....lets not forget sometimes pilots stripped from units across the country, mostly from CFB Petawawa..... There is no speciality training involved in most case and certainly none that involves operating in a CBRN enviroment , certainly not a deadly enviroment such as ebola there main focus is reponding to diasters, hurricanes, tidal waves, earth quakes ...they are there to offer some services that may be indemand....providing clean drinking water, treating trama patients, limited constuction, setting up a small camp provide some shelter....those types of things....normally there is a security element in the back ground But ebola and similar infections is way out of there league. Yes they have been exposed to other diseases , those that already have a vacine and can be controled without putting CF pers lives at risks.....Your also ghiving our medical staff to much credit, most "NOT" all of the CF's doctors and nusrses are GP's they deal with colds sprains, broken bones etc.....there are a handful of surgons, but most of those were Reserves, those guys were top notch but i'm sure if you asked them about ebola they would say they don't have the training nor equipment to deal with it.... Even the US military has a specialized unit for this type of problem.....plus they have the facilities which we do not....there is no funding for that.... they can barely put out a surgical hospital and everything that needs , never mind what is required to handle ebola....same goes for DART.... Yes there are risks to being in the military, but they provide extensive training for those risks ...sure we get sot at but the sdds where less than 25 % that was going to happen.....ebola has a much greater risk, plus we have no training , no protective equipemnt , and the chances of dieing from it are alot greater.....I get it that is what you pay us for....not so much....there is a limit to the danger that soldiers will expose themselfs to.....might as well strap on a vest full of explosives....

Sorry, I was refing to the AOR's but the same could be said for the Destroyer, Arliegh Burke class....