Bakunin

I just can't beleive it... its just like the judge thing that get rewarded by the government to work for the liberal party... Someone will have to make a movie about that party one day... they should call it: The Godfather 4, the story of the libranos family.

Thats the trudeau federal structure fault. The federal government role right now is to manage compromise while it should be to coordinate provincial cooperation. By managing compromise you create frustration, hate, jealousy and sadness. By coordinating cooperation you create friendship, wealth and hapiness.

The sovreignty movement was at 47% before the sponsorship scandal. it was at 50% at the last federal election, one year later its at 54%. The strong suport for sovreignty among the 18-24 while the 65+ are slowly dying played a role. There is no doubt the gomery comission and the provincial liberal helped because the federalist camp lost alot of credibility lately. Pierre trudeau, claude ryan died, jean chretien is linked to gomery and many other scandal, jean charest government is doing a very very bad job, Paul martin has never been a strong national unity defender. On the other hand gilles duceppe is the most popular quebec politican according to the polls. We can also count on Lucien Bouchard and possibly the "right wing" lead by Mario Dumont if we do another referendum. It his true that quebec would have no obligation to pay its share of the debt but the vienna convention say that it should pay an equitable amount, it say it would hardly be justified not to pay its part. A sample would be based on either the pib, the % population of quebec, or the actif on quebec territory. If nobody agree, the international court will choose. There wont be endless discution like the liberal say to scare people.

I hate it when ppl talk about separation as if it was the end of the world... many country splitted off and their are already international convention on how evrything including the debt should be handled ( Vienna convention ). Its a liberal tactic to scare people... Louis IV, king of france used to say: " Après moi, le déluge". translation: " After me, the flood" meaning its the end of the world.

We want to cook our own cake and eat it, this mean no more economic link except we would still continue to pay the canadian debt. But on the other hand, there is no need to be angry and we can still keep friendship link. I think both part can be winner in this. While quebec get its political power back and can get rid of the duplicated services wich is evaluated to more than 3 billions by fiscal expert. On the other hand, the roc get his 5 billion transfer back. Billingualism would cost less and etc.. We don't blame canada, we blame the quebec liberal organisation. I don't think you should see quebec support for sovreignty as an act against canadian, just like canada refusal to participate to the iraq war didn't mean we hate american. Its just that we had different vision.

Like eureka say, its must be held by the provincial government and right now the liberal are in power but the provincial liberal in quebec suffer has much as the federal liberal right now and evrything point out that the pq would win the next election in 2007 and a referendum would be held in 2008-2009. Right now i think its impossible to lose that referendum if its held in 2008-2009 because their is no credible opposition to it. In my opinion, i think we should wait maybe in 2010-2015 and try to have good provincial surplus in our budget first. No its not its from a poll from this week here. And it can be statistically proved that the babyboomers and younger generation always has been more sovreignist while the duplessis generation and older where more federalist.Btw thursday is the 25th anniversary of the 1980 referendum.

What we don't want is a centralized federal government. What we want is something like an european union where we can share common goal and still have 100% separate government. Thats what the association is all about, keep a symbolic and friendly link a bit like canada did with the british empire and commonwealth. Now you prolly want to know why we want our own government, well thats just like canada doesn't want to be controlled by usa, we feel we are different enough, culturally, politically and we speak a different language and etc.. There is a statistic that explain well what will happen in the futur, its the % of ppl that want sovreignty according to their age. 18-24: 58% 25-34: 58% 35-44: 59% 45-54: 57% 55-64: 55% 65+: 39% the 55-64 generation is the 1970 generation that started it all. the baby boomers architect of the quiet revolution. the 65+ generation is the Duplessis (conservative, catolic) generation.

No, once the bill has made it past third reading in the House, then it survives dissolution of parliament; otherwise very little would ever get done considering how long it takes to pass bills through the senate. Parts of the 04/05 budget bill are still in the Senate; and we've been through an election during that period of time as well. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> but if the liberal finally decide not to vote for the ndp deal, does the government fall ? is it a confidence vote ?

I saw it too, anyone can confirm that there is or were a relationship between those 2?

Now that the hope is gone, no reform is possible... there is no reason to stay in this country. We need a referendum fast and alberta if you want to join us to create a new country, your welcome

I must agree, Canada unity can't afford one more year of lock-out !

It represent the hope of a less boring and cruel world than the neo-liberalism world. In other word its less effective but more humanist. Thats why IMO, we should altern between those 2 type of government because its not a good idea financially to stay with a Social democratic vision for too long without taking breaks

the problem is that its hard to act federally and please evryone, specially the minorities so what im wondering is why act federally when we know it will end up just like right now, a unique party country and lots of whinning. I think federal act should be natural and emerge only when evry province find it necessary. A sample is what happend with the healthcare deal, evry province came and gave recommendation to the federal, with that kind of action we dont need a central government, we just have to let the province make deal with each others. If ontario and quebec want to sign kyoto and alberta doesnt want, why force alberta ? just let them choose whats good for them and when its good for evryone then they can make coast to coast deal.

Well it often end up like that yeah Id say, while social democrat represent hope of a better futur world, the neo-liberalism or the consertative represent the rationality of the present world.

felix leclerc : "La meilleure façon de tuer un homme c'est de le payer à ne rien faire. "

Yes, and we should rename canada: the independant states of america.

I think that this is the big problem, the representation is too much screwed up. But not only for some region, for all of them here is my explanation: The maritime and ontario and a few quebeckers has a Liberal vision of this country, The majority in quebec has a social democrat vision of it, the west has a conservative vision of it and BC has his own vision of it. In overall, the liberal version of the country win even if in some part of the country their vision doesnt fit. lets just take the west, how much liberal mp are from their ? about 3 wich are prolly not well representative of the west, it is such ridiculous, its easyer to say they have close to no influence in this government. If we want evryone to be well represented we need sectorial government, the provincial government could do the job. What i mean is that we should look at another system more like a confederation than a federation, where evry province has their personality. This mean we should also get rid of the equalisation transfer, the federal would collect no more taxes so no more transfer needed, the poorer province just have to collect more taxes and cut in social programs. This also mean that the provinces would have the entire responsibility over their citizen and couldnt blame any other government if they fail in something. I know this kind of vision would be quite sad for the maritime ;( but once they get to exploit oil, i guess it will help them.

eureka: First cause they think jean chretien was behind it, that martin knew but didnt participate in it. The coverage of the gomery comission is very good too, evry day the tv news, the newspaper and their is 1 special emission wich explain who was at the comission what they said and analyst explain it. Its clear its not all the liberal party involved, but many ppl participate in it, their are 3 group, the one wich explain evrything and know that what they did was stupid (the good), one group that deny evrything, doesn't cooperate and have major memory issue( the bad). Then the liberal that were not involved in it and are suffering from it. 2nd there is a tradition in quebec, we never keep the same government for more than 2 elections (~ 8 years), in other word we want something new but just like ontario, we are not ready to elect harper so i guess thats why ppl vote for the bloc, to get rid of the liberal, to punish them. And something that we should point out is that their is a psychological bar at 50% that the bloc seems to be unable to go behond that. But the liberal vote still suffer because ppl that dont want to vote for the bloc but are frustrated about the liberal behaviour just won't go vote, i wouldn't be surprised if the particiaption to the election in quebec fall a bit.

Lucien Bouchard left the conservative to create the Bloc... Rene Levesque left the PROVINCIAL liberal to create the PQ... Its not a 1 day change and both have nothing to do with the Federal liberal. I just don't think its fair to point all quebeckers because a few Liberal federal in quebec cheated, i don't see why liberal opponnent and the whole province should be responsible for a liberal scandal.

Well thats not what quebecer and the west want, so either the government can get used to it or push em out of the country. And btw, i don't know where you are getting this 10%, the last poll about sovreignty support ( yesterday) was at 54% with partnership, 46% without partnership. if you want to be more precise you must say the Liberal quebecers... cause the bloc has nothing to do in this scandal.

Thats prolly the part you dont understand bigdude, we are not a toy that you own and play with as you want for your self interest... In fact the more the canadian government will get his nose in quebec business, the higher the support for sovreignty will go up.The less he will put his nose in, sovreignty support will drop cause we wont have to do it. Call it whinning, ill call it respect cause thats what it his, when you have a friend, you respect his decision, you respect his opinion you don't force him to do what you want or manipulate him like a toy...

Depend of the intention vote in your riding if the guy has a chance to win then vote for him, if he's 3rd in the poll then you better vote for the parti you want in power.

A professor asks has his primary school students how their fathers make money for living. The first student say fireman, the second say electrician etc. then the last students says that his father dress as a woman and prostitute in the streets of the city. obviously everyone looks at him completly shocked , the bell sounds, the students go away while making fun of the last student and the professor go see the student alone and tell him: "Why you lied about your father? you know that he is not a prostitute :angry: ? the student say: i know but i was to ashame to say that he work for the liberal party !

I think we need to try the conservative. A majority government if possible. If the liberal get elected after what they did, i think its gonna look very bad for the futur of this country. It would be bad for the democracy, for the integrity of this country and for the unity. If the liberal win a minority government, im sure the parliament still won't work, nobody will want to work with the liberal except the ndp and the constitutional crisis would continue.

Evryday, piece by piece, evrything start to be clear, the overall story of jean brault, his employes, alain renaud and benoit corbeille is coherent. Thei bring proof and their story fit. On the other hand, the story of alphonso gagliano, jacque corriveau and chuck guité wich are as far as we know the main players of this scandals just keep denying with no proof just like if nothing happened... they are also suffering of heavy memory lost. Its funny because the other day, many old quebec provincial politician where talking about the quiet revolution, hydro-quebec and the CDP in the 60's-70's. they remebered evry little aspect of what happend, how when and etc... Then i zap to the gomery commission in the 1995-2001 and they can't even remember anything... They can't even remember the referendum was in 1995...Evrytime a good question is asked, they don't remember...