Bakunin

Its not that simple, after 1760, the french with money and education went back to france.Labor and poor people stayed in quebec. And then since we didnt have any political power, people listened to the church. Church loved the agriculture. I don'T know why i think its symbolic for the church. So the time it took to switch form the agriculture to the industrialization took a lot of time then the 2 world war and then we got I don't see bilingualism has a big deal for the rest of canada. Its really important in quebec since their are unilingual french, unilingual english, and a majority like me that understand the basic of english but still make lot of mistake. but for the rest of french outside quebec, thei can't live in french anyway, thei can't get a job go shoping and live in a french environment ? Montreal is different since their are a lot of immigrant and businessman. its possiblie to live in an english environment. from 1949 to 1960 the conservative where in power. a guy named dupplesis. this era is called "la grande noirceur" i dont know how its called in english. the great blackness :/. It was a really corrupt government working with the church and when he died, the new generation "babyboomers" started a revolution politically ,socially and economically. the church lost all its credibility and evrything changed. I think thats why we can't stand a government when its too much corrupt now. There aren't many way we can work this out. The province must control its economy and work toghether. now the federal government force the province to do stuff that the province don't want. I mean if alberta don'T want to sign kyoto, then why force them ? just for the fun ? a power trip ? if we can't respect or difference people will get angry

Quebec existed way before Canada, It even already been part of usa. Anglophone that came in quebec in 1760, where business man and politician to take control of our economy and politics for the british empire. Just to tell you how much time that took for us to get back on our feet, in 1960 in a french province, if you go shopping in montreal, the service was in english,sign where in english, we worked for english people and in english, our school where controlled by the church and we where almost all cheap labour for american and english. Then the queit revolution came and evrything changed. We are now able to go shopping in french, to use the french at work, we took control of our economy but when we start to take control of our politics, we got problem. the federal government didnt want to decentralize. Well its not they didnt want, its that trudeau came. then he centralize even more. He did that in the middle of a revolution and people got angry and since the provincial government is subordinate to the federal government, then we don't have our place in Canada. in 15 years, 65-80 sovregnist past from 1% to 40%. Many Liberal quitted and join Lésvesque to form the partie québécois. thei where called the movement "souveraineté association" sovregnty with association, a form of confederation we could say. All that because they where frustrated by the way federal acted. Then the federal government frustrated by the sovregist movement started to say just like many of you say. If you decide of sovregnty, then we will refuse any association and your economy will crash. Your with us or against us. then the conservative came to power and stopped that stupid vicious circle of hate and frustration. They tried 2 times to decentralize canada and the 2 time they failled and then the conservative went down and and restarted the vicious circle. At that time sovregnty in quebec was at about 65% but it was a liberal government in quebec. The liberal government totally collapsed... They almost became sovregnist too but at the last moment they refused and then the party splitted. Then the Liberal at the federal government went back to power and the sovregnist too. both where really frustrated. We were not talking about sovregnty association at that time. 0,5% more and Quebec was gone. The moral of the story is that because we get so much frustrated at each other's and doesnt try to understand what we want, we get frustrated and that with too much frustration we are going to fight again and i don'T thing that if we where rational just for 1 min to try to solve the problem, maybee we could be happy and that it would be 100 time better for evryone than having to separate Read this quote and feel the frustration. thats what im talking about.

even more clear in the same web site. and they considered naming canada "the confederation of canada"

its your opinion but since it was supposed to be so clear that it was a federation, why does most of the canadian don't know what is the difference between a confederation and a federation. Even dictionnary and encyclopedia use the word confederation. Canada day is the celebration of the confederation of canada... MacDonald and George étienne cartier are called: Fathers of Confederation i just made a quick search on google here is what they say: -- --- http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Canadian_...n_confederation you say: I would like to know where you read this because i read the contrary evrywhere.

charest was a conservative, he went to the liberal for 1 reason, because he was a federalist. But now that he is in power, he act just like a conservative party. Its how it work in quebec. 2 party, 1 sovregnist and 1 federalist. their are no right or left wing, its just depend of the prime minister. Luciens bouchard was a conservative too.

Eureka, well i just post what's written in the encarta 2004 encyclopedia, i think that if thei are wrong you should call microsoft, maybe they can explain themselve and correct their text if thei find out thei are really wrong :/

first its landry not laundry. Bernard Landry was about retire when he lost the election but since Charest is doing so bad, he changed is mind. Duccepe and Landry are friend so that won't happen before Landry retire. First of all, Layton understand but im not sure about his deputy. I think he still has work to do. He doesn't speak french very well :/ he doesnt have well know deputy, and we must say that the bloc gets the vote because they do the job pretty well. If the bloc disapear, or join the npd then npd would get lots of vote if it work hard. for the moment the conservative and npd ignore the quebec. we don't have well known deputy and they don't care about Quebec issue. I would say that if LAyton would run in a quebec county, it would help alot. it would get the bloc vote, so the whole quebec except the west part of montreal that vote liberal. francophone only. allophone and anglophone (the west part of montreal) vote liberal. He is not a bad guy but he can go shopping and nobody will know who he is. I mean he is not well known, the npd got 3-4% the last election in quebec, he didnt win his county. What i can say his that the npd has alot of potential in quebec, ~ 50 deputy but they would have to merge with the bloc :/

exaclty, english speakers make it worst unintentionaly. Sovregnty has never been stronger than right now... and thats because we can't work togheter to solve the problems of a centralized federation without being demonized and missunderstood by french and english media. now here is the difference between a federation and a confederation i took from encarta 2004: Confederation, in political terminology, a union of sovereign states each of which is free to act independently. It is distinguished from a federation, in which the individual states are subordinate to the central government. © 1993-2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. A confederation is similar to a federal system but gives less power to the central government. The loose alliances of countries or other political entities that make up a confederation seek to cooperate with one another while retaining ultimate control of their own internal policies. Unlike federal systems, confederations usually give each member nation absolute control over its citizens and territory. The central government decides only issues that affect all members of the confederation. © 1993-2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. ------------ Here is what encara 2004 say about the born of canada: Many of the delegates, including Macdonald, wanted a strongly centralized union; others, particularly the French Canadians, wanted a looser federation with wide autonomy for the provinces. The resolutions finally adopted by the Québec conference seemed in many ways to give Macdonald the centralized union he wanted. The federal government would control banking, finance, defense, transportation, and commerce among the provinces. It would also have far greater powers of taxation than the provincial governments would have. In private, Macdonald predicted that the central government would be so strong that it would soon swallow up the provinces completely. Yet the Québec resolutions were vague or contradictory enough to give equal hope to many who wanted more power for the provinces. Provincial governments were to have exclusive control over education, hospitals, natural resources, property and civil law, municipal institutions, and generally all matters of a local nature. In Lower Canada, Cartier’s party announced that this meant that the provincial government would have the power to promote the French Canadians’ distinctive nationality. In fact, the Québec resolutions were open to opposing interpretations, and it would remain for the future to see how they would work out in practice © 1993-2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

oh and 1 more thing we dont receive that much money like some people think... we receive almost 2 time more than ontario. maybe 10% more than west province. 3 time less than atlantic province. In other word we are not as rich as ontario and alberta but not less than B.C and atlantic province. We don't fight for money, we fight for respect of province's and decentralization.

Im from quebec, i speak french and let me explain you what is the problems. it will be a long post but its worth it. read this to understand the sovregnty issue in quebec. First of all in 1867 upper canada, lower canada and the maritime organized an union for many matters. the french wanted a confederation, the upper canada wanted a centralized federation and the maritime joined after mainly for security reason. So what happened is that we got a confederation working like a federation... in other word we got what upper canada wants, a false confederation. Now let me explain what the difference is between a confederation and a federation. first of all a federation has a centralized government. Now let me explain why we didnt want a federation. First of all i think that evrybody understand that quebecers has its own philosophy, its own personnality and we wanted to be able to accomplish what we want and not be forced by a central government to make 1 conform country with the rest of Canada and be forced to walk in the same direction of all the other province all the time. Ok, now let me explain you what we think of the rest of canada. We don't hate canadian, we don't hate english speakers too. We don't torture english speakers, the law we passed in the past are law that force student to go to french school only if their father and mother didn't go to an english school... Now our role in the federal government. Well first of all their is 2 ideology in quebec. People that want a strong central government and People that are against it. Trudeau worked pretty hard for a central government and lesvesque worked against that. Those 2 ideology fougth against each other pretty hard since that time. Sovregnist decided that the only way to end this was to separate from the rest of canada while federalist didnt want to decentralize canada to stop the anger of many quebecers. The federalist are in the liberal party so when the conservative of murloney won, they tried 2 times to work something with sovregnist to decentralize canada and stop quebec from separating but the 2 times it failed mainly because the liberals (trudeau chretiens) were working hardly against it and hard sovregnist too (parizeau). Then the soft sovregnist in the conservative and liberal party were frustrated and like jean lapierre and luciens bouchard and they formed the bloc quebecois because they thought that their where no more chance to decentralize canada and the only way was to separate then renegociate with canadian directly. Now let me explain why we didnt get 50% at the 1995 referendum (we got 49,5 %). Well its simple, first of all not evrybody care about politics and doesnt bother understand why quebecers want to separate so they doesnt understand and vote "no" their are the people that are afraid of what may happend and those people vote "no" (mainly old people and imigrants). But their are also people like chretiens and trudeau and old liberals minister that think that canada must be centralized so they vote "no" And their are people like jean charest and bourassa that is in the middle of the 2 chair, that understand that the liberal in canada doesn't want to negociate a decentralization and that they think that we shouldn't force them and resign to vote "yes". I would lie if i say that sovregnist doesnt want to negociate after a wining referendum but what i can say is that rene lesvesque luciens bouchars and bernard landry are part of the people that want to renegociate. In the case of Landry, he wants a confederal union. Last polls for sovregnty where showed at the election 2004 night and it showed that 50% would vote yes if their would be a referendum. Then the last point let me explain you the other issue sovregnist are working for. First of all we are not saying we receive less money than other province. What we are saying is that the federal government is getting to much money for its responsability. That's why the federal government get large surplus while almost evry province get big deficits. we call this "désiquilibre fiscal" i think it can be called fiscal unequity in english. we are also saying that evry province should have the right to participate or not in federal programs and if the province is not happy with it, it shouldn't pay for that program. In quebec under the liberals federal government we got also a lot of trouble because they stealed provincial juridiction and forced us to participate in the federal programs even if we didnt wanted. Their is also another big problem. Its that the liberals created a "sponsorship program" that program was to put canadian flag evrywhere they could in the country and sponsor event like hockey game and festival. they aslo used this program for corruption but thats the way liberal make politics... And the last problem is that English canadian doesnt understand our problem so they think that electing the liberal or using the strong manner will kill the sovregnist movement but its just make it stronger... I hope this will help people to understand the quebec issue. In other word i think that you people can understand that if canada don't decentralize or continue electing liberals, quebecers will make referendum again and again except if english canada decide to work with us to solve the problem we are facing. Jack Layton understand the issue and has sovregnist working for him in quebec. the conservative doesnt understand the issue but want to decentralize anyway and the liberal party is against it however they have jean lapierre who is a soft sovregnist or was a soft sovregnist. So to conclude the liberals are in really bad shape in quebec since Jean charest philosophy is not popular at all (25-30% support him) and since the sponsorship scandal. Their will probably have another referendum in 4 years because their is no way jean charest can win another election, its just impossible, 70% of the people say the charest government sux.... it even got up to 85% in may. from quebec with love