Jump to content

blackbird

Senior Member
  • Posts

    7,653
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    8

Everything posted by blackbird

  1. James is talking about works being necessary once a person becomes a Christian to demonstrate to the world he is a Christian. But works cannot be a part of becoming a Christian which can happen at the moment one believes in Jesus Christ. If works are necessary to become a Christian, please tell me how much works and what kind is necessary and tell me at what point one becomes a Christian. All the people Jesus talked to who believed in him became Christian the moment they believed. So how did works have anything to do with becoming a Christian?
  2. You are obviously not taking in what Romans 4 says. The passage is not talking at all about the need for works. It is clearly condemning the idea that works are required for justification. It is you who are saying Abraham did something at home. That is not mentioned and contrary to what it says. It clearly says works would not justify Abraham or anyone. Nothing more to say about it now.
  3. No, I don't see any contradiction. James is not talking about justification or salvation. Romans 4 says clearly justification is by faith alone. It condemns the idea of justification by works or faith plus works. Nobody can be justified by works is what is saying. So James and Matthew must be understood in agreement with that. It is you who are claiming James and Matthew is saying salvation is by faith PLUS works. Romans 4 makes it clear once and for all that justification is strictly by faith, not works. That means salvation is by faith alone. Works comes after and is done because one is a child of God, not working to become one.
  4. So you reject what the Apostle Paul says in Romans ch4. You can't interpret other verses such as James and Matt. 7:21 in a way that contradicts what Paul said in Romans 4. They must be in agreement. Paul says clearly in Romans ch4 you cannot be justified by works. Justification is strictly by faith.
  5. " 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." Galatians 2:16 KJV definition justification :- theology the action of declaring or making righteous in the sight of God.
  6. It says clearly " 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness." Romans 4:2, 3 Then it repeats this idea when it says "5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. " Romans 4:5 Clearly it is not talking about any works that Abraham might have done. It is a clear statement that nobody can be justified by his works. In fact, it is a condemnation of the idea that works has anything to do with justification or imputed righteousness. " 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. " Romans 4:6-8 The whole section is clearly a condemnation of the idea that one can be justified by works or faith plus works. It is a clear statement that justification is strictly by faith. This is in agreement with Galatians and Ephesians 2:8, 9
  7. You need to read it again carefully. Does it say clearly that someone who worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness? (verse 5) Clearly Romans 4:1-8 condemns the idea that one is justified or receives imputed righteousness by his works. It is saying nobody can be justified by faith plus works. That should be clear. Would you agree? Justification means iniquities are forgiven and righteousness is imputed to the person.
  8. No, I never said anything about what Abraham did. I am asking you what Romans 4:1-8 means to you?
  9. Did you read Romans ch4:1-8? It uses the word works several times there and says Abraham was justified without works? How can that be? "1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. " Romans 4: 1-8 How could God impute righteousness to a man without works as in verse 6?
  10. Of course not. I never said you should ignore it. But if your interpretation conflicts with the verses I quoted you in Romans, Galatians and Ephesians, then you need to determine why the verse conflicts with all the others.
  11. I just quoted you a number of verse in Romans, Galatians, and Ephesians that say a person is justified by faith WITHOUT THE DEEDS OF THE LAW. Do you not understand what that means? The law refers to works. The Scriptures say clearly on those verses that a believer is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. That means without works. The law means works. Go back and read those verses and tell me what you think they mean.
  12. What about the verses I quoted in Romans, Galatians and Ephesians? Why would the hundred or so verses need the word "alone" when they say clearly salvation is by believing?
  13. So even if a hundred verses demonstrate that salvation is by believing or belief, you still won't accept it?
  14. I just quoted verses from Romans, Galatians and Ephesians. What do you say about them?
  15. Tell me then, if the around 100 verses don't use the word "faith" but use the word believeth or believing, what is the difference?
  16. Actually I don't even need to refer to commentaries to show you where you are wrong on that. Just read chapters 3, 4, and 5 in Romans and will see. Also read Galatians. Or Ephesian 2:8, 9. You still have not explained those chapters and books of the Bible. Can you explain what Ephesians means when it says " 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8, 9 KJV What does it mean? What does this verse mean? "16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. " Galatians 2:16 KJV Or what does this verse mean? ' 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:" Romans 3:20-22 KJV or this verse, "28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." Romans 3:28 KJV " Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin." Romans 4:3-8 KJV No commentaries involved there. What do you say?
  17. I did quote over a hundred verses that show salvation is by believing or faith, but you rejected it all. You are obviously not interested in scripture or commentaries. Admit it. You know even if I quote other Scriptures you reject them anyway. You only accept what the Catechism says or what the Catholic church claims. Doesn't matter what I say, you automatically reject it whether it is Scripture verses or commentaries which refer to Scriptures. Commentaries are what some theologian believes they mean. It would prove to be what many denominations believe as well. Why is that so bad? You should tell us where you are getting your interpretation from. Why is referring to what other people say about Scripture so abhorrent to you anyway? Something else that doesn't make sense.
  18. You are not interpreting these verses correctly. This is not talking about how one is saved. Countless other verses verify salvation is by faith; works follow once one becomes a child of God. The verses that say salvation is by faith or believing cannot be correct if we accept your interpretation on some verses. The Bible does not contradict itself. This is what one commentator says about this verse: quote John 5:29 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. Verse 29 describes two resurrections, one for the lost and one for the believer. The first occurs before the millennial reign of Christ and the other at the end of the Millennium. 29 and come forth— Those who are bodily dead will come out of their graves, and their bodies will once again be joined to their souls. those who have done good [excellent], The idea here is not that one has to do good to go to heaven. The “good” here is the by-product of salvation. The word “good” means excellent. It is the good that springs from faith. These words do not teach salvation by good works. The entire argument of the gospel of John asserts that a person is saved by what he or she believes (Jn 20:31). to the resurrection of life, For those who believe, there will be a future bodily resurrection unto eternal life. The resurrection to life will occur in stages. First, the Lord will rapture the church. Then He will resurrect the Tribulation saints at His Second Coming. and those who have done evil [worthless things], The words “done good” and “done evil” do not imply salvation by works or loss of salvation by evil deeds. The word for “evil” here is not moral evil but something worthless. It is an “evil” or worthless life to not trust in Christ for salvation. to the resurrection of condemnation. The resurrection of condemnation will occur at the end of the Millennium (Re 20:11-15). The lives of these people attest to their state of being lost eternally. PRINCIPLE: There are two resurrections: to life and to judgment. APPLICATION: There is only one reason why people are lost eternally—they reject the sacrifice of God’s Son for their salvation (Jn 3:36). The dead will be raised in sequence (1 Co 15:22-24). There is an “order” to the resurrection of people. There will be a resurrection, and then “after that” another resurrection. First, believers will be raised at the Rapture (1 Th 4:16) and then the Old Testament and Tribulation saints at the end of the Tribulation (Re 20:4). Revelation 20 indicates that there will be 1,000 years between the Rapture and the Great White Throne judgment. The first resurrection is of those who believed in Christ. The second resurrection includes anyone who died as an unbeliever. God completely bypasses judgment for the believer because Jesus took our penalty for sin. He paid the price for our sin. There is no charge against the believer whereby he can be judged (Ro 8:33-34). unquote John 5:29 | Bible Exposition Commentary (versebyversecommentary.com) The subject of John 5:29 is the two resurrections, not how one is redeemed.
  19. No. It is your interpretation that is wrong. The fact is a person who has true faith (by God's grace), is going to have a changed heart and a willingness to serve his Lord and Savior. But Romanism disregards that and claims you must bow the knee to Romanism and it's claims that the church saves a person through the sacraments. You never mention the fact that almost all of Romes' doctrines are contrary to the Bible. A few examples of false doctrines starting with the basics are: 1. A priesthood offering sacrifices (Masses) for sins is unbiblical because Jesus Christ offered himself once for all. It is never to be repeated. Read Hebrews. Therefore it is a blasphemy to be claiming to be offering a sacrfice for sins in the Mass. 2. The claim that priests can forgive sins by hearing confessions and giving absolution. No man who is and sinner (and everyone is an imperfect sinner) can take God's place and forgive sins. Only God can forgive sins. A person must go to our heavenly Father through Jesus Christ to confess and receive forgiveness. When a person becomes a Christian he receives forgiveness and eternal life. In Catholicism nobody can go to God through Christ; they must go through a priest. This is a roadblock in effect. 3. Elevating Mary to be the "Mother of God" is blasphemous and false. Nothing in the Bible supports that. Praying to Mary is idolatry. One can pray only to God through Christ. 4. A papacy that purports to take the place of Jesus Christ (or God) on earth and claim infallibility. These are just a few examples of a religion invented by men and contrary to the Bible. Yet you strongly support it and condemn anyone who dares to criticize your interpretation on the doctrine of salvation by grace through faith. Since you support wholeheartedly all of this false religion and unbiblical teachings, why would anyone think you are credible on the doctrine of salvation? They shouldn't.
  20. The truth is Christ can set us free. We are born in the bondage of sin. Romanism teaches one must have faith plus works, that is, work his way to heaven somehow. Therefore a Catholic never really knows if he has done the right things or done enough to earn going to heaven. This is contrary to countless verses in the Bible that teach salvation is entirely by God's grace through faith. God saves people from hell; they do not and can not save themselves. People work because they are saved and become a son or child of God. They are part of God's family and want to do good for their Lord and Savior. If you believe you must work your way to heaven somehow and nobody has defined clearly what that means, then you are in bondage. You have not really received the freedom that is in Christ. Jesus came to set us free. We were born in sin and have a sinful nature. That means we have no real freedom. But Jesus came to earth and died for our sins. If we believe in Him as our personal Lord and Savior and believe he died for us personally, we are forgiven and thereby set free. We are new creatures in Christ. "How can we experience true freedom in Christ? | GotQuestions.org
  21. No, it is a disaster for society. It is contrary to what God intends for man and woman and destroys the foundation of society, the family structure. "What is at the root of the confusion today over what is male or female, is the elevation of subjective experience over objective truth. In other words, self-perception eclipses biology. But those struggling with gender dysphoria should not be unduly stigmatized. They wrestle with the consequence of the Fall as with all humanity and the solution begins and ends with faith in Christ." Gender Identity and Sexual Orientation - The Gospel Coalition The truth is Jesus Christ can see us free. "Far from being oppressed, the slave of Christ is truly free. We have been set free from sin by the Son of God who said, “If the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed” (John 8:36). Now the Christian can truly say, along with Paul, “Through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death” (Romans 8:2). We now know the truth and that truth has set us free (John 8:32). Paradoxically, through our bondage to Christ, we have also become sons and heirs of the Most High God (Galatians 4:1–7). As heirs, we are partakers of that inheritance—eternal life—which God confers on all His children. This is a privilege beyond any earthly treasure we could ever inherit, while those in bondage to sin inherit only spiritual death and an eternity in hell." How can we experience true freedom in Christ? | GotQuestions.org
  22. Well, all I can tell you is what the Bible says and what some commentaries say about the subject. "God did not choose everyone. If He had, then everyone would come to faith in Christ. He chose some, and He left others to their own desires. Left to ourselves, all of us would continue in our rebellion and reject Christ. God chose to pursue some, convict them of their need, and lead them to faith. It is because of God’s choice that anyone comes to faith in Christ. Jesus said, “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day” (John 6:44). This is a tough truth to get our minds around. We are tempted to think that we are more just and gracious than God and that He should have chosen everyone. We need to reject that temptation. We are in no place to judge God! It is not as though some are desperately crying out to Him for salvation and He rejects them because He has not chosen them. Those whom God does not choose continue doing exactly what they want—they rebel against God and try to stay as far away from Him as possible. He simply allows them to continue on the path they have freely and willfully chosen. He has, however, chosen to intervene in the lives of some and win them over. He does this so that He might show His love and kindness to people who are undeserving." What is the doctrine of election? | GotQuestions.org
  23. No, I never said it is proof because I say it is. That is silly. Everyone has to decide in his own heart whether he will believe the Bible or not. But if one has not studied the Bible in any serious way, they may be making false assumptions. Some may not believe because they have not received God's grace through faith. (Ephesians 2:8, 9) One can believe only if God gives them the grace to believe. Grace through faith is a gift of God. We are not talking about earthly things here; these are spiritual matters. They require a spiritual understanding, not an earthly, materialistic understanding.
  24. These verse are referring to the disciples preaching the gospel. The individual must believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ and repent to receive remission of sins. That is all there is to it. It is not some magical power that priests claim to be able to forgive or remit sins. It is simply stating that the disciples had the power by virtue of their preaching the gospel of salvation in Jesus Christ. To receive this forgiveness or remission of sins, one had to believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and then they were forgiven. That is what it is referring to. It is the same as what we read in various other places in the Bible which is by grace through faith. This is a result of hearing the gospel. That is what John 20:22-23 is referring to, not some magical power.
  25. OF course its dead. But salvation is by grace through faith and is FOLLOWED by works. Nobody can save themselves by works. Claiming works saves a person is denying God's grace through faith saves him. "35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. 39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing." Acts 8:35-39 What saved the eunuch? Was it grace through faith or was it faith plus works? Obviously the eunuch believed the gospel of Jesus that Phillip preached to him. Phillip said "IF THOU BELIEVEST WITH ALL THINE HEART, THOU MAYEST" (be baptized). So because the eunuch believed in Jesus, Phillip baptized him. This was a sign and a testimony that the eunuch had become a Christian or been born again by faith in Jesus.
×
×
  • Create New...