OftenWrong

He is the Devil incarnate.

It is curious that someone who insists that information be backed up by hard evidence from reliable sources, when presented with them resorts to calling them lies, preferring instead to believe in "examples".

Also debatable. I read that China was invited to be part of the TPP but they declined, as it did not serve their interests well enough. IE it was not primarily intended to exclude China. "China was invited to join the TPP by Hillary Clinton in 2012." Link

First, thanks for the informative posts even if I don't agree with everything you say. Trump deliberately chose his path to success by use of rhetoric and personal insults toward his adversaries, and likely has many enemies inside and outside the USA. My guess is he thrives on the use of high-stakes drama. I don't see him as a dummy, but someone who likes to use bluster to put his opponent off balance. The opening argument is not the closing argument, IE. he comes out saying things that sound extreme, but appear to be carefully worded bluffing. He loves to get people excited or angry. Sometimes it works, sometimes it backfires. Interesting observation about apparent US withdrawal from making trade deals with Asia. I think the perception that US global outreach is contracting started under Obama. The first thing Trump did as president was back out of the TPP. Many people were happy about that, and some in Canada wished we would do likewise. We all know that any business we do with them represents a transfer of wealth and information to an adversarial superpower that is communist. No one likes the fact that China has an abhorrent record on human rights, exploits their workers and unregulated economy to sell us cheap goods which are literally garbage right out of the box. Now we get to drink Chinese milk and eat Chinese wheat. I know many people who want to see Canada, and western nations in general become more economically independent. Whereas old China had only their weapons and military, they have now become an economic superpower as well. But that means a reversal of the course we are on. Many warned in the past that doing business with China would mean a loss of prosperity on the whole for the west. That globalism would lead to outsourcing of jobs, even in high-tech sectors. It doesn't take a genius to figure these things out. But the road "back", if there even is one, means short-term pain for long-term gain. And this is not Trump's original idea, but he is among only a few who promote it.

Hard to say what Donald Trump is really all about, but I suspect that he does some of these things on purpose. Not all however. His campaign was based on the use of over-the-top rhetoric, thus setting the tone for his presidency. During his speeches he attacked his adversaries with personal insults, which attracted the attention of a lot of people and I suspect this is what gave him a lot of appeal to a certain population of voters. The backlash is predictable. Trump must believe he can survive it, and in some cases use it to go even further. So far his political opponents have not been able to damage him, and remarkably his approval continues to be on the rise. Even if folks do not read u on the news, they surely hear all the negative press about Trump, his alleged scandalous affairs, the possibility of a collusion and a coverup during the campaign, etc. yet this apparently is not terribly important to the US public. Yes, these people are focused on what they need right now, today and don't care if the guy is a womanizer. Perhaps because several presidents have been. Kennedy was very popular despite it, or perhaps even because of it!

No I don't watch it. I had that channel for about one week and it was too stupid for me to continue paying for. On the other hand CBC and CTV news are nearly as bad, and worsening every day. I draw my conclusions from a variety of online sources, along with careful google searching. It doesn't matter to me if it's left or right wing, but if there's hyperbole. Anyway this is off topic.

In your opinion. Let's see what the American people think. 2 - second google search, "Trump approval economy": Majority of Americans approve of Trump's handling of the economy for the first time: CNBC survey Trump’s economic approval rating surged 6 points to 51 percent, according to the latest CNBC All-America Economic Survey. Fifty-four percent say the economy is good or excellent, the highest recorded by CNBC in the 10 years of the survey. The recent headlines on immigration have not hurt his ratings, according to the survey. Several interesting data points given in that link, both pro and con his presidency. Seems legit. I don't think they are doing it to flatter him.

Haven't seen him use much of that military hardware yet, despite the rantings we hear from hysterical leftist media. On the other hand I do see him using economics as a weapon, exactly as you subscribe. Stop watching CNN.

Sheer nonsense... they're all just saying that to make Trump feel good. Not lying, it's flattery...

It's a great idea to have this, for those who need it. And yet I don't see a whole lot of members piling on and using it. My impression is that insults and trolling in general are way down, for a good while now. I like that. Greg, I strongly agree with you.

Found some more praise for Trump. NATO chief praises Trump’s Afghanistan strategy 22 Aug. 2017 NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said Tuesday that U.S. President Donald Trump’s new 'conditions-based' approach to Afghanistan was 'welcome.' "I welcome President Trump’s new, conditions-based approach to Afghanistan and the region. NATO remains fully committed to Afghanistan and I am looking forward to discussing the way ahead with Secretary Mattis and our Allies and international partners." On Monday night, Trump announced that the U.S. will maintain its military presence in Afghanistan based on certain “conditions” being met, and did not specify a timeline for withdrawal. He also accused Pakistan of providing a “safe haven to agents of chaos, violence and terror.” In a subtle nod to Trump’s take on Pakistan, Stoltenberg said: “We urge all countries in the region to do their utmost to shut down sanctuaries for extremist groups, support peace and reconciliation, and contribute to a stable and secure Afghanistan.” In a statement, U.K. Defense Secretary Michael Fallon said the U.S.’s commitment was “very welcome,” You can call it flattery if you wish, if that helps to prevent any pending threat of disillusion...

You mean the example he gave about a completely different scenario/ different people/ different purpose? No problem, believe what you like. Disbelieve the words of other NATO leaders, if it makes you feel good. Fill your boots.

Other presidents have wanted to eliminate the two-term limit as well, if I recall correctly. Yeah. Let me know if/ when world war 3 breaks out.

There are two separate incidents in which Trump was credited by a NATO leader, one back in May 2018 and one now, recently. What you're saying is that these people are lying. If you have evidence (such as I've provided...) fine, I could accept that. Otherwise,it's just your unsubstantiated opinion.

My links, in which NATO leaders give him direct credit. That is the only reason I think that.What makes you think he doesn't have anything to do with it? I do. I don't think anyone in NATO is Russia's friend, and I doubt that Trump is their friend either. Next up is another meeting with Trump and Putin, presumably this is an attempt to re-engage Russia in useful ways, but maybe not in all ways, as they are not to be trusted.

Nonsense. The sky is falling

Just because I may smile and act nice to you, doesn't mean I am your friend.

I suggest the tears of a million leftists might be enough to wash him way.

Meanwhile they enjoy the money he got them, and praise him publicly.

Including the part where he gets praise and thanks for acquiring another $40B for NATO? What is NATO for again? Countering the Russian military threat. Why bother with that when he could do nothing, or even just the opposite? Because it's a serious problem that needs to be addressed. Trump can talk nice to his "competitors" all he wants. Would you trust him if he talked nice to you?

Trump administration did what it did, despite your protestations. That includes expelling Russian diplomats. Trump wants NATO members to pay up to double what they're paying now. He pushed for increasing the NATO budget in May 2018, to the tune of $40B. Already posted the links here this morning in the NATO thread. No response from anyone to that, crickets. Trump's efforts in NK have a slim chance of success. That is better than no chance. Today we hear the announcement that NK is preparing to return the remains of 50 US soldiers to America. Yesterday, the media was screaming that he accomplished nothing. I'll tell you who accomplished nothing, Obama. But the love and praise for the man still oozes out of every liberal pore. Personally, I don't believe anything said by the media whores or any politician. Even a Trump will lie when convenient. I have no problem differentiating between what is being said, and what's being done. The time for truth in the media is past. Good luck to you Sir.

Russian aggressive behaviour in the arctic started long before Trump. Under Obama, they dropped a Russian flag under the water at the north pole, if I recall. Trump has already been far harsher toward Russians than Obama in his brief time as president: The Trump administration has levied tough sanctions on Russia. Also, President Trump’s public lecture about Germany not buying natural gas from Russia was aimed at cutting Putin off from hard currency worth tens of billions of dollars and further weakening the Russian economy. Furthermore, President Trump’s efforts to get our European allies to increase their defense spending has a direct impact on Putin. The stronger NATO is, the less maneuvering room Russia has. Beyond pressuring our allies, consider these specific steps President Trump has taken against Russia: - Where President Obama refused to provide serious weapons to the Ukrainians to help them defend themselves (his response was weakness on a pathetic scale), President Trump has approved the sale of offensive weapons to enable the Ukrainians to increase the cost of Russian aggression. - When the Russians used chemical weapons in Great Britain, President Trump joined our allies and expelled 60 Russian intelligence officers from the United States. - When the Russians retaliated, the Trump administration closed the Russian consulate in Seattle. President Trump had previously shuttered the Russian consulate in San Francisco and smaller annexes in Washington and New York. - More than 100 Russian individuals and companies have been sanctioned for a variety of reasons. Despite the hysteria of the left, it is impossible to see the Trump administration as anything but firm in its dealing with Russia. Newt Gingrich, 2018/07/18