M.Dancer Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 They were punishing the Conservatives. Well, that may be true.......but it doesn't explain why the NDP, a party that could count the number of times it won a seat in quebec on one finger could beat the liberals........ Most people decided to support the NDP candidate. They thought maybe that it was a clear signal about their disagreement with the current government,” said Mr. Dion who, along with many other political leaders is attending a plowing match in this rural Ontario community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uOttawaMan Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 They were punishing the Conservatives.Well, that may be true.......but it doesn't explain why the NDP, a party that could count the number of times it won a seat in quebec on one finger could beat the liberals........ Well come on.. it does make logical sense.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted September 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 Well come on.. it does make logical sense.. Or is there a more sinister reason why the NDP could do what no NDP has eveer done before? A group of Liberals in Quebec loyal to Michael Ignatieff was working "to try and tank the Outremont campaign," Toronto Liberal Justin Tetreault said yesterday. He said a former member of the Ignatieff leadership team tried to discourage volunteers from working on Jocelyn Coulon's campaign in the Montreal-area riding. Mr. Tetreault, who listed bizarre campaign activities in Outremont on his blog yesterday, said that he didn't know whether the Ignatieff camp was responsible, but that many suspected it was. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeyhands Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 I doubt that the sabotage angle is correct. Sounds contrived to me. This is most definately on Dion and Dion only.... nothing to do with anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgly Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 I doubt that the sabotage angle is correct. Sounds contrived to me. This is most definately on Dion and Dion only.... nothing to do with anyone else. Yeah. The voters in those ridings just don't see a new Liberal Party. The Libs made a mistake when they put Dion and Ignatieff up at the convention. They should have gone with Rae. The NDP win sort of says that, doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 . They should have gone with Rae. The NDP win sort of says that, doesn't it? I dont think so. Ontario would never vote for Rae, and the powers that be knew that.W/o Ont, the Libs would be dead in the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgly Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 I dont think so. Ontario would never vote for Rae, and the powers that be knew that.W/o Ont, the Libs would be dead in the water. Maybe you're right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 They were punishing the Conservatives.Well, that may be true.......but it doesn't explain why the NDP, a party that could count the number of times it won a seat in quebec on one finger could beat the liberals........ Dion's argument is that the NDP has promised to withdraw from Afghanistan immediately whereas the Liberals and BQ have simply stated that they don't want to extend the mission beyond 2009.Many peace-advocates in Outremont rejected the Liberals and BQ and voted for the NDP. Implicitly, they were rejecting Harper's Afghan policy. Dion, to a degree, has a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 The CPC won the popular vote across the 3 ridings by a huge margin. The Liberals finished dead last, considerably behind the NDP. This had NOTHING to do with Afhganistan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 The CPC won the popular vote across the 3 ridings by a huge margin. The Liberals finished dead last, considerably behind the NDP.This had NOTHING to do with Afhganistan. I disagree. In Outremont, among a certain group of activists, the NDP position to withdraw from Afghanistan immediately was popular. Mulcair mentioned it several times himself as an explanation of his victory.Mulcair said: "The people voted for change and I am honoured to take that message to Ottawa," Mulcair said. "It's a call for peace, for the environment and to be a voice for the future generations as well as for working families." Toronto Star Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 Layton seems pretty tickled about the NDP win. As usual, he's going over the top about what the win means. Soon he will claim he invented the internet. The results are actually a solid shot in the arm for the Tories, which is why the results were stuffed in the back of the two newspapers I read. Come to think of it, the 6 pm newscast did the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 I disagree. In Outremont, among a certain group of activists, the NDP position to withdraw from Afghanistan immediately was popular. Mulcair mentioned it several times himself as an explanation of his victory. Maybe in Montreal, but definitely not the whole of Quebec. The CPC dramatically increased tally's in both other ridings. That's big for an incumbant party in a byelection. Afghanistan really seems to be a non-issue outside of urban areas, at least in Quebec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Bluth Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 The CPC dramatically increased tally's in both other ridings. The huge jump in the CPC vote is showing that Harper's strategy is working. Quebecois outside the island of Montreal have marginalized the Liberals and view the Conservatives as the one federalist alternative in the province. Too bad the Liberal's strategy in Quebec of selecting a snooty Brebeuf-educated progessor who can't relate to people from the hinterlands of his own province hasn't worked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 I must correct my earlier musings regarding our media outlets giving muted coverage of the results in Quebec. Maybe it was just too early, but now I've seen plenty of stories on it and Dion's possible demise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 I must correct my earlier musings regarding our media outlets giving muted coverage of the results in Quebec. Maybe it was just too early, but now I've seen plenty of stories on it and Dion's possible demise. The Liberal media is quickly slitting the throat of their leader. They want new blood so they can report a win. Notice how Iggy's name is in more headlines than Harper's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 They were punishing the Conservatives.How, by giving the CPC another riding in a province not especially known for voting in a party more associated with Protestant Westerners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 (edited) http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home The Globe and Mail reveals some of the problems in regards to the Outremont by-election. Two days after the Liberals' humiliating defeat in the Montreal riding, volunteers and others involved in the campaign talk of interference by Mr. Dion's senior strategists in the last three weeks and of a chaotic election day.Outremont MP Jean Lapierre told Mr. Dion last December that he would resign the following month. He said he left $60,000 in the riding association's bank account, 1,000 members and a team of savvy organizers. "The local organization was one of the best in the province and the kitty was full," Mr. Lapierre said yesterday. "She [riding association president Adrienne Lafortune] delivered everything the Dion people asked for. But they [the local organization] had nothing to do with the campaign strategy." While the NDP and its star candidate Thomas Mulcair, who beat the Liberals' Jocelyn Coulon by more than 4,000 votes, were working the riding all spring, Liberals in Outremont were begging Mr. Dion to name a candidate, Mr. Lapierre said. Mr. Coulon had approached Mr. Dion to run in Outremont the day Mr. Lapierre resigned. But he was told that they didn't want him, Mr. Lapierre said. "For six months the riding association had asked for that supposedly star candidate he has somewhere in store," said Mr. Lapierre, a former cabinet minister and now a political commentator and broadcaster. "They begged to have a candidate ... they even went to the leader with that ... because they felt the pressure of having this guy [Mr. Mulcair] on the ground." It is obvious that Dion and the leader's office took far too long to announce a candidate. They should have let the riding select the candidate rather than looking to appoint someone in the riding. Edited September 21, 2007 by jdobbin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 (edited) http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/homeThe Globe and reveals some of the problems in regards to the Outremont by-election. It is obvious that Dion and the leader's office took far too long to announce a candidate. They should have let the riding select the candidate rather than looking to appoint someone in the riding. Without knowing details, that G&M report makes sense.The Liberal vote in Outremont only fell by about 6%. Outremont, over time, has become a strange, different riding than it used to be. Lapierre is right that he won it by good organization. Dion is a new leader feeling his way like any outsider in a new job. As an academic, his natural instinct is to wait and see. On paper, Coulon was a good fit for Outremont but, as the engineers say, the execution of the project was inexact. Maybe in Montreal, but definitely not the whole of Quebec. The CPC dramatically increased tally's in both other ridings.This thread is about the Outremont by-election and by extension, Montreal.---- Anyway, the real story here is the rapid collapse of the Bloc vote. And the Liberals didn't get it in Outremont. What will happen in a general election? Well, the Montreal Bloc voters won't go with Dion, that's for sure. And they won't go for Harper. Edited September 21, 2007 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc1765 Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 The Liberal vote in Outremont only fell by about 6%. The media seems to be focusing on Outremont as a failure of the Liberals. I'm not so sure about that, I'd be more concerned about the other ridings. As you said, the Liberals dropped only 6% out of 35%, or about 1/6th of their vote. The Conservatives lost 4% of 12%, or 1/3rd of their vote. The bloc lost over half their vote. The NDP won because they had a star candidate, and they took votes mainly from the Bloc, and only a relatively small amount from the Liberals. In the other ridings though, the Liberals fell quite a bit, but the worst news for the Liberals is that the Conservatives gained votes and even won a seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc1765 Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 By the way, here's an update: Federal Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion has taken the blame for his party's defeats in three Quebec byelections, saying, "A leader has to put himself out there and I didn't do it."Dion said he's the first person who should be held responsible for the Liberals' nosedive in the federal byelections on Monday night... Link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 In the other ridings though, the Liberals fell quite a bit, but the worst news for the Liberals is that the Conservatives gained votes and even won a seat.Good analysis. Quebec is not a place where you'd expect the CPC to do well, Diefenbaker aside.Can anyone explain what happened in the 1958 election in Quebec? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc1765 Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 Good analysis. Quebec is not a place where you'd expect the CPC to do well, Diefenbaker aside. Don't forget Mulroney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 Don't forget Mulroney.Mulroney was Francophone and from Quebec. Diefenbaker wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted September 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 Mulroney was Francophone and from Quebec. Diefenbaker wasn't. Mulroney was as francophone as Dief..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 (edited) Mulroney was as francophone as Dief.....Mulroney was born in Baie-Comeau and graduated from Laval University law school. Bourassa appointed him to investigate labour union practices in Quebec.Diefenbaker was none of those things. Can anyone explain what happened in the 1958 election in Quebec?Duplessis got the vote out for Diefenbaker. Why? Duplessis was angry with the Liberals and Diefenbaker was ambitious. Edited September 21, 2007 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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