About Wal-Mart

[cybercoma]

So then cybercoma, what were your thoughts on the Quebec store which was simply shut down?

It was bullshit and obviously union busting. I'm not going to say WalMart does no wrong. But, the major arguments I've heard are ridiculous, for the most part.

[Renegade]

and I fully believe in that, voting with my dollar!

And you are perfectly within your rights to do so.

BUT, when a wal-mart comes in and wipes out all competitors, it can then ask whatever it wants for products, as it has exterminated all it's competition.

Wal-mart is in a unique position to do that initially ( substantial buying power), then once all or almost all the competition is gone, they are free to charge, whatever the choose.

And do you have any evidence it has done so? In those towns which all the other shops have closed, have prices been jacked up once the last other store has closed? It has been my experience that the the mom and pop shops charged far higher markups then even situations where Walmart was the sole retail outlet.

A healthy, diverse marketplace is what benefits us all, on price, on product and on employment.

All it demonstrates is that small business is not effective competition to Walmart. Walmart mostly differentiates based upon price. Effective competiion will appear based upon either being more efficient even than Walmart is, or by differentating at something other than price.

[cybercoma]

WalMart killed Quesnel.

There are NO small businesses that survive there at all. It's a ghost town. One either works in one of the pulp mills or WalMart.

That being said, I still shop there but I think WalMart should not move into communities of less than 50,000 people.

Show me that the small businesses paid better and provided better benefits than WalMart. Chances are the small retail shops didn't, so those working at WalMart probably appreciate its existence there.

[cybercoma]

cybercoma:

That's a pretty unsophisticated and inaccurate characterization of the urban sprawl critique.

Please enlighten me, because you're right... I don't know a whole lot about it.

[cybercoma]

I'd just like to note that I also avoid shopping at WalMart, but it has more to do with the customer service experience in my local store than the bs EVIL CORPORATION crap.

It seems that most times I go into the store, they have only a few cashiers on duty and the lineups are usually about 10-15 customers deep in the open lanes. I could see it being a matter of a sick call or two, but when I go there 5 or 6 times in a month and its everytime, then there's a management problem.

That's not to mention the fact that you can rarely get assistance from anyone in the store... that's if you can find anyone. It's just not a very satisfying experience. Retail outlets should SERVE their customers. The experience should be as smooth and easy as possible without any sort of headaches.

Problem is, I'm sure the executives want it to be that way and they preach that they are; however, when you need to hire over 100 people to work in your stores, it's nearly impossible to get 100 people who are willing to go above and beyond and actually be of SERVICE to the customers.

[Drea]

Show me that the small businesses paid better and provided better benefits than WalMart. Chances are the small retail shops didn't, so those working at WalMart probably appreciate its existence there.

Just think of the small business owner -- now instead of employing 4 people (example) he is now working at WalMart for $9 an hour.

He no longer pays taxes as a business owner, in fact at his low wage, he probably barely pays any.

Really he probably would've moved and opened his business elsewhere, thus deriving a net loss to the community he moved from.

WalMart does not participate in the local economy EXCEPT for the employees. The OWNER of WalMart does not shop at the supermarket down the street on Saturday afternoon... as the small business owner more than likely would have.

WalMart is bad for small communities. Quesnellians (LOL) who want low priced warehouse goods can travel to Prince George and shop at Costco (or the WalMart there). As it is the WalMart in Quesnel is NOT located downtown and so in inaccessible to anyone without a car anyway (for those of you who think it's better for the "working poor" who live in the downtown core). PS there are very very few busses in Quesnel.

By the way the population of downtown is 8,000. Including the surrounding area (miles of rural space including Native reserves, etc.) there are approx. 15,000.

I used to live there I am not making this up.

[cybercoma]

Why don't you do your own research - or do you need spoonfeeding?

Please don't troll; the forum rules address the research issue:

RESEARCH YOUR POST

If you are stating a fact, be prepared to back it up with some official sources (websites, links etc).

Now whether that's considered a forum "rule" or just a "guideline" is beyond me.... nor do I care. The point is that kuz wasn't backing up his or her argument.

My apologies to White Doors for jumping in....

[buffycat]

Hi Cybercoma,

I think one of the problems which walmart is accused of is they keep workers under the 40 hr mark thus they don't have to pay any of the 'benefits'.

Currently walmart mexico is under investigation for using underage kids to do bagging and NOT paying them at all.

They aren't exactly the nice guys. I don't shop there due to my disagreement with their labour practices as well as where they get their products from (in many cases, as stated, from Asian sweat shops).

The economic power we do have as consumers can be a mighty tool for change - but only if one realizes what is going on and then has the fortitude to stick to their convictions.

I am not a big consumer, as I am not a materialistic sort of gal (heck I own like four pairs of shoes!!), so for me it's not a biggie to ban Walmart. I have other boycotts too - french wine being the longest standing of all. gosh must be over 20 years now on that one!

edited to correct: I own five pairs of shoes - I recently purchased some old fashioned canvas shoes made in Russia.

Edited August 7, 2007 by buffycat

[Black Dog]

Please enlighten me, because you're right... I don't know a whole lot about it.

Short version: big box retail complexes like those favoured by WalMart are usually built on the fringes of urban areas, which involves paving over land that can be used for other purposes (like farming). The resulting developments are accessible mainly by car, which means an increased amount of traffic and reults in more congestion, more pollution and more wear and tear on infrastructure (which comesout of taxpayers' pockets, not the retailer's). By pulling shoppers and other businesses away, these developments also contribute to the "doughnut effect" which leaves urban cores blighted, underutilized wastelands.

FYI, there are ways for cities to grow that don't involve expanding like a cancer in all directions.

[cybercoma]

Just think of the small business owner -- now instead of employing 4 people (example) he is now working at WalMart for $9 an hour.

He no longer pays taxes as a business owner, in fact at his low wage, he probably barely pays any.

Come on Drea, you're better than this. You're just making stuff up and arguing against it. The fact of the matter is, if a small business owner were to work at WalMart, with their previous management experience and the fact that they owned a business, they'd have a much better position than a $9/hour cashier. Chances are they'd be a Department Supervisor, Assistant Store Manager or General Manager.

Really he probably would've moved and opened his business elsewhere, thus deriving a net loss to the community he moved from.

Could've, maybe, probably....blah blah blah.

There are plenty of small businesses that do just fine with WalMart around. In fact, the WalMart here is attached to the mall and there are several small businesses in there that are doing just fine.

WalMart does not participate in the local economy EXCEPT for the employees. The OWNER of WalMart does not shop at the supermarket down the street on Saturday afternoon... as the small business owner more than likely would have.

The OWNER of WalMart are the stockholders, which are often times the associates working there. The have a stock purchase plan as part of their benefits, so when the employees shop at the supermarket down the street, it is indeed the owner shopping at the supermarket.

Aside from that, the Store Manager and the Assistant Store Managers all live in the community and therefore shop in the community and spend the money they make from WalMart back in the community. So, your argument is just plain wrong.

WalMart is bad for small communities.

Except for all the jobs it creates, the benefits it gives to its employees, the fact that those employees then turn around and spend money in the community, the fact that community service, money and products are donated to charities in the community.... these are all great reasons to have a WalMart in a small community.

I used to live there I am not making this up.

I don't think you're making anything up. I just think you're a little misguided, perhapsp you feel empowered in having a cause against major corporation.... I really don't know, nor do I care. I'm not trying to troll or flame you. I just think you're way off base on this one.

[Drea]

I have no "cause" against a big corp.

I shop there. They have jeans for my kid at less than $20!

They have nothing I would wear though I am not old enough to wear stretchy pants LOL.

I did buy a mat the other day... $15.

That being said I still stand by my opinion that WalMart should stay out of small communities...

Heck Cash Creek can't even have a Tim Hortons because all the coffee shops whined about it. There is no Timmy's between 100 Mile and Chilliwack! Ack I barely survive the drive!

Added: Do you know what an Assistant Manager or Manager earns at a retail box store? I was offered "Manager in Training" at Liquidation World and refused it -- they offered me $9.10 per hour -- oh plus bonuses -- big deal.

I make way more n' that in marketing... for small business I might add.

Edited August 7, 2007 by Drea

[cybercoma]

I think one of the problems which walmart is accused of is they keep workers under the 40 hr mark thus they don't have to pay any of the 'benefits'.

source? I've never heard such a thing. I have a number of friends that work at Home Depot and I know they try to get their fulltime employees to kill their overtime the same week it is accumulated, which is questionable. That's neither here nor there though. I've never heard of WalMart doing that. They have fulltime employees that are guaranteed 40 hours a week and parttime employees that aren't.

Currently walmart mexico is under investigation for using underage kids to do bagging and NOT paying them at all.

Appalling, but we have labour laws in Canada and they have the same labour laws in the US that don't allow for this sort of thing. If WalMart is indeed doing this in Mexico, that's disgusting and they should be ashamed.

They aren't exactly the nice guys. I don't shop there due to my disagreement with their labour practices as well as where they get their products from (in many cases, as stated, from Asian sweat shops).

I never claimed they were the nice guys, I just don't think they're as bad as everyone is making them out to be. Corporations, especially publicly traded ones, are not there to be nice. They're there to do what the shareholders want, and that usually means turn a bigger profit every year, by almost any means.

Goods manufactured in China have a higher margin for the company and therefore a bigger return for the investors at the end of the day. Asian sweat shops are questionable, but there are claims that the comparably low wages those kids are making in Asia are actually well paying jobs in their economies.

Perhaps standards need to be raised for these "sweat shops" in Asia, but if they didn't exist, those families would probably starve and have no other means of making money.

The economic power we do have as consumers can be a mighty tool for change - but only if one realizes what is going on and then has the fortitude to stick to their convictions.

Its good to have convictions, but one must also look at all sides of the situation before jumping to conclusions.

edited to correct: I own five pairs of shoes - I recently purchased some old fashioned canvas shoes made in Russia.

It's great that you can afford not to buy thinks made in China, but I doubt everything you own is sweat shop free. Having worked at Home Depot and having to shop competitors, I know that the majority of home decor products are made in China, especially lighting. Lighting made in North America is nearly 3 times the price of that which is made in China, for the same or similar designs and similar quality.

It's just not reasonable to expect everyone to avoid purchasing things that are made in Asia because they may come from sweat shops. Besides, Asia isn't the only place that has sweat shops. Those shoes from Russia could've been made in a sweatshop. Mexico and South America are also notorious for sweat shops that abuse their employees.

You just never know and its sad but consumers care more about price than where their products come from. Unfortunately for some Canadians, they have no choice but to purchase the cheaper products because they simply can't afford to be choosy.

[cybercoma]

Added: Do you know what an Assistant Manager or Manager earns at a retail box store? I was offered "Manager in Training" at Liquidation World and refused it -- they offered me $9.10 per hour -- oh plus bonuses -- big deal.

When I worked fulltime at Home Depot, I made more than 1.5x as much as that as an associate, not even a manager. I can tell you, the assistant managers at Home Depot and Walmart start, before all the bonuses they get, at $50,000/yr.

[ScottSA]

Sweatshops are often the only employment available in parts of Asia. Take them away and you take away the sole source of income for entire families in countries that have no welfare system at all. Boycott "sweatshops" and you boycott the lives of people who depend on them.

[cybercoma]

Piss off, Scott. I don't need to be agreeing with you on things...

[White Doors]

Where is this claim made White Doors? Care to quote it?

Wal mart has been brought to task many times over their shady pricing adventures - heck a google search will bring up almost 2 million hits.

Why don't you do your own research - or do you need spoonfeeding?

It's on the thread. look at it your self.

The burden of proof is on the claimant. ie: not me.

[ScottSA]

Piss off, Scott. I don't need to be agreeing with you on things...

I know what you mean. I feel dirty....

[White Doors]

I make way more n' that in marketing... for small business I might add.

Ahhh.. and walmart isn't knocking on your door for your 'marketing' services.

I think we have gotten to the bottom of this..

[Drea]

Hey I specialize in "propaganda"

but there is no way in hell I would relocate just to market WalMart's propaganda! I doubt if their head office is within 5 mins of my house..

I work 35 hours a week at a job I LOOOOVE. I visit clients all day and get paid more than 50G's per year. Waaay better than being tied to some dept store...

[buffycat]

Hi Drea,

Thanks for your thoughtful post - most of which I totally agree with.

WRT the hours of labour - google and you will find many sites which discuss this. I am hesitant to give a specific link as I would rather you choose your own. (That way I won't be accused again today of some kind of contrived bias!).

I agree too that sweat shops are a problem everywhere - even here in Canada. It is something which IMO doesn't get the media attention it should. If we were all informed about which corps use these practices then as consumers we can make better choices.

To be honest - I don't buy much anyway as stated I am not a materialistic person. Hence when I do make a 'big' purchase I tend to be very careful about what it is I am sinking my hard earned $$ into!

A company I did some consultation work for was considering having one of their units built in china. Thankfully I persuaded them not too - thus saving some Canadian jobs and keeping the $$ at home.

Anyways, thanks for your nice post - how refreshing!

[kuzadd]

http://www.jibjab.com/originals/big_box_mart

a spoof, that makes a good point!

[ScottSA]

http://www.jibjab.com/originals/big_box_mart

a spoof, that makes a good point!

No, it just makes up a point.

[betsy]

as bcat pointed out, you can google or yahoo or kartoo as well as anyone, inform yourself, I have made an informed decision, I shop, and spread my hard earned dough around, and it doesn't go to wal-mart.

You can do your own homework.

Truly, I don't have to justify a thing I choose not too, or explain my own personal decisions to you.

I have done my homework and made my choices.

I am afraid, and I know this will be difficult for you, that you will have to accept that!

Btw, are you in on this thread as someone who wants to have a mature and serious discussion....or are you just here to throw in a casual opinion or two?

You've referred to these horrible labour practices twice...and mentioned something about a boat with money.

So? Why don't you explain your statement?

Or perhaps you can't.

Edited August 8, 2007 by betsy

[betsy]

WalMart may not be directly responsible for all the closures but they sure aren’t helping their neighbouring small businesses now are they?

Can you explain why you think Wal-Mart is responsible for closing small businesses?

[betsy]

Sweatshops are often the only employment available in parts of Asia. Take them away and you take away the sole source of income for entire families in countries that have no welfare system at all. Boycott "sweatshops" and you boycott the lives of people who depend on them.

That's true. From what I know, these are actual jobs! Yes, they aren't paid like us....but you have to acknowledge that it's a different situation there from here! A lot of people there are practically working for the food they'll put on the table!

Like it or not, they'll do anything to be able to feed their family!

And before you guys start going on about the children working in these sweatshops, what would you rather see?

A child working in a sweatshop...or working the streets as a child prostitute?

Edited August 8, 2007 by betsy