About Wal-Mart

[betsy]

Hi Drea,

Thanks for your thoughtful post - most of which I totally agree with.

WRT the hours of labour - google and you will find many sites which discuss this. I am hesitant to give a specific link as I would rather you choose your own. (That way I won't be accused again today of some kind of contrived bias!).

I agree too that sweat shops are a problem everywhere - even here in Canada. It is something which IMO doesn't get the media attention it should. If we were all informed about which corps use these practices then as consumers we can make better choices.

To be honest - I don't buy much anyway as stated I am not a materialistic person. Hence when I do make a 'big' purchase I tend to be very careful about what it is I am sinking my hard earned $$ into!

A company I did some consultation work for was considering having one of their units built in china. Thankfully I persuaded them not too - thus saving some Canadian jobs and keeping the $$ at home.

Anyways, thanks for your nice post - how refreshing!

As to labour practices, I found a forum (debate between pro-WalMart and pro-Union). From what I hear from those who are actually working for WalMart, the conditions are actually good! The starting pay is a little bit more than minimum wage. Average for cashiers is at $9.00 per hour. Full-timers get benefits. And they say promotion comes fast. And that there are a lot of ways to move up. They also offer training. A young person can go really far...or will surely benefit experience-wise and training-wise! Well that sounds a lot better than a lot of regular jobs around.

Edited August 8, 2007 by betsy

[geoffrey]

Most of their stuff comes from China, and apparently the Chinese are trying to kill us.

Not to mention the clientele there all seem to be aggressively hateful of all around them. I've never seen such a depressed group of middle aged women before. Eeww. I'll pass. You couldn't pay me to shop there. It actually ruins my week to even drive by and think of the depression.

Walmart represents all I hate about suburban life.

[kimmy]

If I don't buy sweatshop crap from Wal-Mart, Chinese families will starve?

Screw that.

It's not Kimmy's job to look after Chinese workers. Maybe they should complain to their government if there aren't enough jobs. Maybe they should go back to planting rice or whatever they did before these 5 cent per hour jobs became available. Or maybe they should have a revolution. The sooner the better, frankly.

I sometimes shop at Wal-Mart, but I studiously avoid buying any of Wal-Mart's crappy house-brands. Real brands only, and even then, I do my best to avoid anything made in China.

The poisoned cat food was the last straw for me. I'm through with those stupid idiots.

I don't see how or why North American business should be expected to be cost-competitive with Chinese companies who are apparently able to use slave labour and whose chief expense in safety or quality control or environmental emissions appears to be bribing government officials.

They'll have to execute a hell of a lot more corrupt inspectors before I have any trust in their shoddy goods.

-k

[kuzadd]

Btw, are you in on this thread as someone who wants to have a mature and serious discussion....or are you just here to throw in a casual opinion or two?

You've referred to these horrible labour practices twice...and mentioned something about a boat with money.

So? Why don't you explain your statement?

Or perhaps you can't.

do you also need to be spoonfed?

what is with DEMANDING posters?

I told you I made an informed decision, I vote with my dollar, I am well within my right to do so.

Stop your petty demands, which you use as an opportunity to take cheap shots at me.

"Btw, are you in on this thread as someone who wants to have a mature and serious discussion"

It doesn't appear that way.

shop wherever you want, I truly don't care!

Edited August 8, 2007 by kuzadd

[kuzadd]

This is btw one of my fave 'axe to grind' with wal-mart stories

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/18/national...artner=USERLAND

Workers Assail Night Lock-Ins by Wal-Mart

Workers Assail Night Lock-Ins by Wal-Mart

By STEVEN GREENHOUSE

Published: January 18, 2004

Looking back to that night, Michael Rodriguez still has trouble believing the situation he faced when he was stocking shelves on the overnight shift at the Sam's Club in Corpus Christi, Tex.

It was 3 a.m., Mr. Rodriguez recalled, some heavy machinery had just smashed into his ankle, and he had no idea how he would get to the hospital.

The Sam's Club, a Wal-Mart subsidiary, had locked its overnight workers in, as it always did, to keep robbers out and, as some managers say, to prevent employee theft. As usual, there was no manager with a key to let Mr. Rodriguez out. The fire exit, he said, was hardly an option — management had drummed into the overnight workers that if they ever used that exit for anything but a fire, they would lose their jobs.

"My ankle was crushed," Mr. Rodriguez said, explaining he had been struck by an electronic cart driven by an employee moving stacks of merchandise. "I was yelling and running around like a hurt dog that had been hit by a car. Another worker made some phone calls to reach a manager, and it took an hour for someone to get there and unlock the door."

The reason for Mr. Rodriguez's delayed trip to the hospital was a little-known Wal-Mart policy: the lock-in. For more than 15 years, Wal-Mart Stores Inc., the world's largest retailer, has locked in overnight employees at some of its Wal-Mart and Sam's Club stores. It is a policy that many employees say has created disconcerting situations, such as when a worker in Indiana suffered a heart attack, when hurricanes hit in Florida and when workers' wives have gone into labor.

"You could be bleeding to death, and they'll have you locked in," Mr. Rodriguez said. "Being locked in in an emergency like that, that's not right."

http://www.nacsonline.com/NR/exeres/00008b...cookie%5Ftest=1

and of course, once the public finds out, bad PR.........

they acknowledge they lock in the employees!

Wal-Mart Vice President for Communications Mona Williams said that the company locks in workers at approximately 10 percent of its stores located in high-crime areas. She said that Wal-Mart has revised its lock-in procedure to make sure that there a night manager with a key to open the doors in the case of an overnight emergency.

Some Wal-Mart employees said that the company revised its lock-in procedure on January 1, when the Times began researching the practice.

so wal-mart, upon it being publicized after a few too many incident of employee's being locked into the store with no way out, no manager with a key ( and I mean, why pay a manager, when you can lock them in, like the slaves wal-mart clearly think they are!) at least they say, they changed their policy, but did they?

if they did , have they changed it back to save $$$

Pathetic!

Edited August 8, 2007 by kuzadd

[betsy]

This is btw one of my fave 'axe to grind' with wal-mart stories

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/18/national...artner=USERLAND

Workers Assail Night Lock-Ins by Wal-Mart

Workers Assail Night Lock-Ins by Wal-Mart

By STEVEN GREENHOUSE

Published: January 18, 2004

Take note of the date on that article: Jan 2004!

I'd find it hard to believe that at the present time, that practice is still going on.

Sure there were problems such as those....but was it being practiced in all Wal-Mart stores?

As far as I know, usually in every stores that do hire managers....it is the manager that's left with most of decision-making. That's what they're hired for.

Now, that being said....it does not necessarily guarantee that all managers are perfect - heck, some managers are not even fit to manage at all!

But of course some will say, the responsibility rests on the owners/top honchos.

Perhaps Wal-Mart honchos are recognizing the problems....that's why the top honcho of Wal-Mart Canada had devised a program called "Tell Mario," a way to directly communicate with employees how to improve their conditions.

Wal-Mart Canada had been voted as among the "top 50 Best Employers of The Year" in Canada - apparently for 6 consecutive years, if I'm not mistaken!

So it is hard to believe a lot of these "horror" stories to be true. Unless it means that Canada's standards are sooooo low that an "evil Wal-Mart" made it as one of the best places to work for!

Edited August 8, 2007 by betsy

[betsy]

And just so to prove to you that I'm not just making it all up, nor am I being ignorant of what I spout about:

50 Best Employers in Canada

From Friday's Globe and Mail

December 20, 2005 at 2:00 AM EDT

For the past four years, BC Biomedical Laboratories has topped our list of the 50 Best Employers in Canada. But in 2006, we crown not one but two new champions. Among medium-sized companies (300 to 1,499 employees), the Winnipeg-based financial services firm Wellington West Capital took the top honour; Cintas Canada, meanwhile, ranked first among larger companies (1,500 employees or more). This is the first year we've separated companies by size, a format that should allow readers to better compare firms.

As always, those that make up our Top 50 this year are a diverse group, ranging from car rental companies like Enterprise to retailers like Wal-Mart, a multinational often portrayed as a foe of labour rather than a friend.

In "What can we learn from Wal-Mart..." (next page), writer Steve Brearton explores why employees gave the nod to the store Sam Walton built, as well as to a couple of other firms that occupy less-than glamorous positions in the corporate pecking order—including our co-winner, Cintas. On the following pages, we chart the Top 50 and put a human face on all the numbers, with some key lessons delivered by employees themselves.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...ialROBmagazine/

Here are the testimonials and opinions of the employees of those companies who made it to top 50:

BEST LEADERSHIP

Every employee has a role in making the organization successful—and each one knows what that role is. What's more, company leaders provide all employees with opportunities to practise their leadership skills.

In practice

All levels of leadership understand where the organization is headed—and what it will take to get there

Leaders display passion and enthusiasm for the future

They build trust by making commitments and consistently delivering on them

Leaders roll up their sleeves and work alongside employees to get the job done

They spend most of their time and energy coaching employees

They listen to what the front-line employees are saying and act quickly to fix problems

They forge personal connections with employees

In the employees' words

"Our leaders are in the trenches, and they don't see themselves as part of a hierarchy; they make sure we understand the decisions and that we buy into them"

"The leaders want us to hold them accountable"

"If we're not doing what management needs us to be doing, they will come right out and tell us—and help us get where we need to be"

"What I love the most is the motivation that comes from the general manager"

COACHING FOR SUCCESSCareer growth and development is not just about being promoted; it needs to be an organic process whereby employees are encouraged to integrate change and grow, regardless of their position or role within the organization. Broad career development and advancement ensures an organization's future growth and success.

In practice

Leaders continuously talk about the importance of growth and development. They ensure the appropriate resources are in place to support career development

Leaders and managers are truly excited at the prospect of grooming their successors and helping employees reach their career goals

The most qualified people inside the company are promoted. People are hired based on their potential

Managers are properly equipped and trained to coach employees. Discussions about career development are ongoing

Leaders and managers actively work to remove barriers to career development and advancement

In the employees' words

"They pull out your great potential"

"I'm a woman who wants a career and a family, and I was concerned this might jeopardize my career. But I don't worry about that here; the managers know my goals, and we worked out a game plan together"

"There's an openness to learning here—a push to learn"

A RECOGNITION CULTURE

People feel emotionally connected to the organization because their personal contributions are recognized by managers and leaders alike. Moreover, the ways in which employees are recognized are tailored to the individual.

In practice

Leaders and managers are always looking for ways in which employees can be recognized for their achievements—something that is especially important for those people who are new to the organization

Extra work rarely goes unnoticed

Recognition is delivered with an expression of sincere appreciation

Employees' family members are recognized when appropriate

In the employees' words

"We had a challenge to meet a specific goal. When we exceeded that goal, the executive team had to wash our cars and we were invited to the CEO's house for dinner"

"Someone always gives us recognition when we do something extra. They expect us to do overtime, but they also appreciate it and thank us. A little 'thank you' goes a long way"

"Some individuals are uncomfortable with public recognition, so we're very cautious about who we recognize publicly. Sometimes we just send a handwritten note"

"People here take their cue from senior management, who have been publicly appreciating people for years"

Edited August 8, 2007 by betsy

[kuzadd]

of course betsy fails to read, straight from the horse's mouth

"Wal-Mart Vice President for Communications Mona Williams said that the company locks in workers at approximately 10 percent of its stores located in high-crime areas. She said that Wal-Mart has revised its lock-in procedure to make sure that there a night manager with a key to open the doors in the case of an overnight emergency."

Wal-Mart Vice President for Communications Mona Williams said that the company locks in workers at approximately 10 percent of its stores

the company, NOT individual managers, the company itself, as policy.

Have they changed that policy?

NO, they have not!

They are still locking people in, they are just going to .......

make sure that there is a night manager with a key to open the doors in case there is in the case of an overnight emergency."

what does that mean?

will the manager be present?

doesn't say.

I also IMO, believe the difference in the way Canadian employees vs US and even Chinese employees are treated, have much more to do with different labour laws, within the countries themselves.

note Betsy, I was referring to American workers in the article?

probably not.

[betsy]

of course betsy fails to read, straight from the horse's mouth

"Wal-Mart Vice President for Communications Mona Williams said that the company locks in workers at approximately 10 percent of its stores located in high-crime areas. She said that Wal-Mart has revised its lock-in procedure to make sure that there a night manager with a key to open the doors in the case of an overnight emergency."

the company, NOT individual managers, the company itself, as policy.

Have they changed that policy?

NO, they have not!

They are still locking people in, they are just going to .......

make sure that there is a night manager with a key to open the doors in case there is in the case of an overnight emergency."

what does that mean?

will the manager be present?

doesn't say.

I also IMO, believe the difference in the way Canadian employees vs US and even Chinese employees are treated, have much more to do with different labour laws, within the countries themselves.

note Betsy, I was referring to American workers in the article?

probably not.

Well, from what I gather from your response above, according to Williams, it did indicate that Wal-Mart had made some changes:

"She said that Wal-Mart has revised its lock-in procedure to make sure that there a night manager with a key to open the doors in the case of an overnight emergency."

If I'm not mistaken, I think the word "revised" means making some changes?

BOOMERANG!

So, who fails to read - AND understand their own link? Right there, as you said, "straight from the horse's mouth..."

And a very big mouth I might add.

Say again?

Well, yes you're talking about Wal-Mart America - which I believe (if I'm not mistaken) is the MOTHER company of ALL Wal-Marts around the world - including Canada?

I would assume that the top honchos for every Wal-Mart in every foreign country is given some lee-way to adapt their operations to that of the country's population and governmental policies.

Still, being in top 50 of the best employers must definitely mean something. It's not to be taken lightly.

Edited August 8, 2007 by betsy

[betsy]

Don't get me wrong, guys. I do respect your decisions for not wanting to shop at Wal-Mart, or hating Wal-Mart (for whatever personal reasons you may have)...and hopefully it is not largely due to the influence of some smear campaigns that seem to viciously focus on whatever company is being targetted.

Edited August 8, 2007 by betsy

[kuzadd]

Don't get me wrong, guys. I do respect your decisions for not wanting to shop at Wal-Mart, or hating Wal-Mart (for whatever personal reasons you may have)...and hopefully it is not largely due to the influence of some smear campaigns that seem to viciously focus on whatever company is being targetted.

NO one is saying that hate wal-mart, god how childish is that?

I am not giving them my hard earned money because I am of the opinion, they haven't earned it!

Betsy, you still didn't read or cannot comprehend

"Wal-Mart has revised its lock-in procedure to make sure that there a night manager with a key to open the doors in the case of an overnight emergency."

They revised the lock-in procedure to make sure there is a night manager, with a key to open the doors in an emergency.

That means, the employees are still locked in!

the revision is to make sure there is a night manager with a key.(read the sentence)

What does that mean?

is the night manager present at the store?

doesn't say

Did wal-mart provide the manager with a beeper?

doesn't say

It is clear that employees are still being locked in.

It says NOTHING, as to what change they exactly made to ensure a manager with a key, will open doors.

it is a vague, statement of pacification, for readers such as yourself, who never ask a question of anything, and just accept the vagueness of the said statement, as you demonstrated.

[Drea]

Hi Drea,

Thanks for your thoughtful post - most of which I totally agree with.

Anyways, thanks for your nice post - how refreshing!

Thanks Buffycat.

WalMart sells cheap goods using cheap labour. In the long run they do nothing for a small community except underprice all the competitors forcing them out of business. And the service is terrible. I am willing to pay more for the goods I purchase when the service is good.

Quesnel's population is shrinking -- how long before the huge WalMart decides there isn't enough people to support it? How long before they pull out and leave all those *high paid* (LOL) cashiers in a lurch?

[M.Dancer]

Quesnel's population is shrinking -- how long before the huge WalMart decides there isn't enough people to support it? How long before they pull out and leave all those *high paid* (LOL) cashiers in a lurch?

Indeed.....how long till any business decides the market sucks and moves....or is this decision only bad if Walmart does it?

Maybe we should have a law that says businesses can only set up and hire people if they can prove they will never ever fail and that their efforts will never out sell, out perform and out do the competion so that the competion loses money. Maybe a law that says no one is allowed to sell for less or pay less than anyone else. Maybe even they should pass a law to limit the number of stores so that it will be easier to regulate.

[marcinmoka]

WalMart sells cheap goods using cheap labour.

And it helps many students and other lower income groups get by on very tight budgets. Have they no shame?

Edited August 8, 2007 by marcinmoka

[ScottSA]

Maybe we should have a law that says businesses can only set up and hire people if they can prove they will never ever fail and that their efforts will never out sell, out perform and out do the competion so that the competion loses money. Maybe a law that says no one is allowed to sell for less or pay less than anyone else. Maybe even they should pass a law to limit the number of stores so that it will be easier to regulate.

They tried that in the guild system in England. It kinda led to throwing the Jews out, burning folks at the stake for using witch craft to fail businesses in spite of the precautions, and a few other side effects, but hey, let's try it again!

And don't forget we need a law to tie people to the land so they can't just get up and leave businesses in the lurch because of declining population. Let's call the new system "feudalism." It has a nice ring to it.

Edited August 8, 2007 by ScottSA

[Drea]

Me thinks some people need to grow up.

No doughheads I do not think that businesses should be stuck in a failing market. I make my living from marketing. How successful do you think I would be if I encouraged businesses to stay in a failing marketplace?

WalMart is good when it locates in a centre with a large population. Not so good when it kills small town businesses.

They do not benefit a local economy in the same way as a small business. The shareholders, CEO's, etc (who DO NOT live or spend thier money in those small communities) are the only ones to truly benefit.

Sure they employ *a few* people but it is negligible.

[White Doors]

Me thinks some people need to grow up.

No doughheads I do not think that businesses should be stuck in a failing market. I make my living from marketing. How successful do you think I would be if I encouraged businesses to stay in a failing marketplace?

WalMart is good when it locates in a centre with a large population. Not so good when it kills small town businesses.

They do not benefit a local economy in the same way as a small business. The shareholders, CEO's, etc (who DO NOT live or spend thier money in those small communities) are the only ones to truly benefit.

Sure they employ *a few* people but it is negligible.

You have failed to prove that Walmart caused the closure of even one store, let alone be responsible for killing a dying town. Also, I am sure this community is full of walmart owners being shareholders of it in the stockmarket and mutual funds in their RRSP's. your fears are based on ignorance of how capitalism works.

Edited August 8, 2007 by White Doors

[M.Dancer]

Me thinks some people need to grow up.

No doughheads I do not think that businesses should be stuck in a failing market. I make my living from marketing. How successful do you think I would be if I encouraged businesses to stay in a failing marketplace?

WalMart is good when it locates in a centre with a large population. Not so good when it kills small town businesses.

They do not benefit a local economy in the same way as a small business. The shareholders, CEO's, etc (who DO NOT live or spend thier money in those small communities) are the only ones to truly benefit.

Sure they employ *a few* people but it is negligible.

So we should ban large businesses then? Or demand where and when they can locate? Why not? Some planning commitees actually do that. I believe Walmart has a couple of Toronto locations and so far the city centre is in no danger.

Perhaps the danger to small towns isn't really from Walmart, but from being a small town. I think most people agree things cost more in small towns precisely because the economics of scale make them more expensive....in which case Walmarts pricings are a breath of fresh air.

The other question is, if walmart is sooo bad, why do people shop there. Why do people take jobs there when there are so many other places to work?

The only answer to that question is that people are stupid. Somehow I think it's the wrong question.

[Drea]

Yah.

You know what I do?

I get welfare from the governemt (cause I dunno 'bout capitalizm LOL) and I use it to promote small businesses. The government pays me to help businesses grow./NOT!

Corporations have a duty to the communities they decide to locate in. Or do you (never mind of course you do!) think that a company can come into a community, suck it dry and leave with no responsibility to the people it has sucked dry?

Like I said, I have nothing against your favourite store. They just should not locate in small communities of under 50,000.

That's all.

Do employees of WalMart automatically become shareholders? Are all employees of WalMart getting dividend cheques in the mail?

added -- who said anything about banning large corporations?

Geez get a grip your extreme paranoid tendencies are showing through.

Edited August 8, 2007 by Drea

[M.Dancer]

Corporations have a duty to the communities they decide to locate in.

I've been in business so to speak for over 25 years. I have never seen a law or statute that says that. Corporations have a duty to their shareholders and it may be good business to foster good relationships with communities, especially for businesses that rely on consumers but it is not an obligation.

Like I said, I have nothing against your favourite store. They just should not locate in small communities of under 50,000.

That's all

So in otherwords the majority of communities in Canada shoudn't have local access to the same amenities as people in Toronto or Vancouver? Tell you what, that would kill the small town a loty faster than Walmart could ever.

added -- who said anything about banning large corporations?

You just did.

[White Doors]

Corporations have a duty to the communities they decide to locate in. Or do you (never mind of course you do!) think that a company can come into a community, suck it dry and leave with no responsibility to the people it has sucked dry?

Could they and are they allowed to under current legislation? Yes.

Would it be a wise business move? No. It would be a PR disaster.

Your ignorance of capitalism leads you to call for government regulation.

How else do you think walmart could be prevented from locating in a community of less than 50,000?

You clearly have not thought this out at all.

[Argus]

Errrr, no. Jobs are not a zero sum game that merely flow into some other nook and cranny of the economy. That's not how the cookie crumbles.

Are you under the impression that Wal-Mart creates jobs? It does not. It destroys jobs.

[Drea]

T-H-A-N-K Y-O-U Argus!

and White, M... I never said anything about lawfully BANNING a corporation. I said they should not locate in small communities. Far cry from BANNING innit?!

If everyone loves WalMart so much and it is sooo good for communities -- why do some communities fight tooth and nail to disallow them? Why do hundreds of people turn out to city (or town) council meetings? Are they their to say "Give us WalMart!". No they are not, they are there to stop WalMart from ruining what they consider a prosperous community.

As far as corporations having a "duty" to the communities they locate in... take the forest industry. Warehauser, Canfor and the like have a DUTY to the communities they open in. They cannot, for instance, simply take all the trees they fell and sell them -- a portion of those trees MUST be further manufactured in the community.

Corporations are not "purely" capitalistic. They have a public responsibility. Or would it be better if we were like Chili or Peru where there are no duties, no responsibility to the communities there.

[M.Dancer]

Warehauser, Canfor and the like have a DUTY to the communities they open in. They cannot, for instance, simply take all the trees they fell and sell them -- a portion of those trees MUST be further manufactured in the community.

I wasn't aware they were actually cutting down trees in the towns themselves.....

[M.Dancer]

Or would it be better if we were like Chili ......

I would rather they were like Irish Stew....