Khadr should make us ashamed to be Canadian

[guyser]

After President Najibullah's resignation in 1992 and the end of Soviet support, the military dissolved into portions controlled by different warlord factions and the mujahideen took control over the government. This era was followed by the rise of the Pakistan-backed Taliban, who established a military force on the basis of Islamic sharia law.

link

And?

The military circa 2001 was being re-built by NATO (US forces primarily)

[Guest American Woman]

And?

The military circa 2001 was being re-built by NATO (US forces primarily)

Sure it was, but I think "was being rebuilt" is significant, especially as the other was still very much in existence/power. It's who our forces - including Canadian - were fighting. At any rate, it's all dependent on interpretation, and this thread proves one thing for certain - people have different interpretations of it all, and obviously you and I are never going to be in agreement.

[guyser]

Sure it was, but I think "was being rebuilt" is significant, especially as the other was still very much in existence/power. It's who our forces - including Canadian - were fighting. At any rate, it's all dependent on interpretation, and this thread proves one thing for certain - people have different interpretations of it all, and obviously you and I are never going to be in agreement.

I dont think we will agree and thats all cool, but I also dont think it is due to interpretation either.

It does spell out what is needed, and to me at least, it is clear that he does not fit any of the terms for treason.

And it isnt any one of us I say that to. It took me some time reading and re-reading the law to see that it could not be applied as I felt I laid out succinctly yesterday. I feel some arent breaking down the clauses to see how he either does or does not fit.

The part to key is the qualifier...."the country whose forces they are"

The country of Afghanistan has one army (tho many armed factions) , and they are involved alongside the US/NaTO/CDN forces.

If the Taliban / Al Queda were a country unto themselves, then treason would be appropriate .

[Guest American Woman]

I dont think we will agree and thats all cool, but I also dont think it is due to interpretation either.

Well then, that's something else we're not going to agree on. Laws are interpreted differently all the time, which is why the courts sometimes have to give rulings on the meaning. Here, in this thread, we have different interpretations, yet you seem to be saying that there are no other interpretations other than your own, and I don't see it that way.

It does spell out what is needed, and to me at least, it is clear that he does not fit any of the terms for treason.

Your "to me, at least..." indicates that it is your interpretation. To me, and others, it would fit the terms for treason.

And it isnt any one of us I say that to. It took me some time reading and re-reading the law to see that it could not be applied as I felt I laid out succinctly yesterday. I feel some arent breaking down the clauses to see how he either does or does not fit.

The part to key is the qualifier...."the country whose forces they are"

As I said, I think that can be interpreted to mean even if we aren't at war with the country where the military force is from; I don't think the intention was to render it not a crime if someone was fighting with military forces that were engaged in a military conflict/war against Canada. It makes no sense. Either way, they are fighting in the conflict against Canada.

The country of Afghanistan has one army (tho many armed factions) , and they are involved alongside the US/NaTO/CDN forces.

If the Taliban / Al Queda were a country unto themselves, then treason would be appropriate .

I disagree, for the reasons stated above.

[jbg]

Oh

you

have

got

to

be

f'in

kidding

me.

Post of the day.....comedy attempt was that?

For the record, 15 yr olds dont particularly scare me much.

You got a bed? Get under it and wait it out. We'll come and get you when the coast is clear. Bring lots of food and water and Depends. You'll need it.

The problem is the over-tolerance of cultures and people who are here not to enjoy us but to destroy us.

[eyeball]

Khadr was just 15 years old when he was captured by U.S. forces in 2002, while fighting for the Taliban in Afghanistan.

No, what really happened is that Khadr was 15 years old when he was finally rescued by U.S. forces in 2002, after having been illegally pressed into service as a child soldier for the Taliban around the age of 8.

[jbg]

No, what really happened is that Khadr was 15 years old when he was finally rescued by U.S. forces in 2002, after having been illegally pressed into service as a child soldier for the Taliban around the age of 8.

Let me see if I get this. Someone is pressed into service as a soldier say at 11 months when he can walk. Is he immune to punishment just because his parents were awful people?

[BubberMiley]

The problem is the over-tolerance of cultures and people who are here not to enjoy us but to destroy us.

Is that a translation of a Hitler quote?

[eyeball]

The West, as we know it, will literally die of this kind of hair splitting. Unless the West gets serious, folks like Omar will destroy us while we debate the finer points of jihad.

It's not Omar's fault the West is taking it's own bullshit way too seriously.

It is his curse however to be the lens that's magnified it.

[eyeball]

Let me see if I get this. Someone is pressed into service as a soldier say at 11 months when he can walk. Is he immune to punishment just because his parents were awful people?

That's a silly question, you know damn well he was guilty as sin the minute he poked his head out into the dismal Godawful universe you live in.

[BubberMiley]

Unless the West gets serious, folks like Omar will destroy us while we debate the finer points of jihad.

Actually it's fearful, paranoid folks like you who would destroy us by spending billions on "security" and war to "protect" us from a few goat-farming teenagers.

[Army Guy]

If the Taliban / Al Queda were a country unto themselves, then treason would be appropriate .

So you agree that the Taliban were the ruling force in power during the time of the conflict right...

Do you agree that Al Queda is an armed group of people..

Then really all one has to do is tie both together during the invasion, which is clearly laid out in what ever ref you use. i used wiki links. link

After the Sudanese made it clear, in May 1996, that bin Laden would never be welcome to return,[clarification needed] Taliban-controlled Afghanistan—with previously established connections between the groups, administered with a shared militancy,[107] and largely isolated from American political influence and military power—provided a perfect location for al-Qaeda to relocate its headquarters. Al-Qaeda enjoyed the Taliban's protection and a measure of legitimacy as part of their Ministry of Defense, although only Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates recognized the Taliban as the legitimate government of Afghanistan.

While in Afghanistan, the Taliban government tasked al-Qaeda with the training of Brigade 055, an elite part of the Taliban's army from 1997–2001. The Brigade was made up of mostly foreign fighters, many veterans from the Soviet Invasion, and all under the same basic ideology of the mujahideen. In November 2001, as Operation Enduring Freedom had toppled the Taliban government, many Brigade 055 fighters were captured or killed, and those that survived were thought to head into Pakistan along with bin Laden

055 Brigade (or 55th Arab Brigade) was an elite guerrilla organization sponsored and trained by Al Qaeda that was integrated into the Taliban army between 1995 and 2001. [1][2] It comprised mostly foreign guerrilla fighters (Mujahideen) from the Middle-East, Central Asia and South-East Asia who had some form of combat experience, either fighting the Soviet invasion during the 1980s or elsewhere.

They were equipped with weapons left behind by the Soviets, as well as those provided by the Sudanese and Taliban governments. The Brigade was also the beneficiary of Al Qaeda's worldwide network of procurement officers who obtained sophisticated equipment including satellite phones, night vision goggles, and even airplanes.

Reports from Time magazine indicate that members of the 055 Brigade were often deployed in smaller groups to help reinforce regular Afghan members of Taliban. This was often achieved via threats or intimidation designed to enforce discipline and a commitment to the mujahedin philosophy.

Estimates on the strength of the 055 Brigade vary, however it is generally believed that at its peak it comprised somewhere between 1,000 and 2,000 personnel. The 055 Brigade suffered heavy losses during the 2001 war in Afghanistan and many were captured by the United States. Those that survived retreated with Osama bin Laden to the Afghanistan-Pakistan border area where they regrouped with the intention of waging a protracted campaign.

According to Joint Task Force Guantanamo counter-terrorism analysts the brigade was a unit of foreign fighters in Afghanistan under the command of Osama bin Laden.[2][3][4] JTF-GTMO analysts said that, under bin Laden's command, the 55th Arab Brigade was integrated into the Taliban's military. Abdul Hadi al-Iraqi was asserted to be in direct operational control.

link

Edited May 5, 2012 by Army Guy

[cybercoma]

No, what really happened is that Khadr was 15 years old when he was finally rescued by U.S. forces in 2002, after having been illegally pressed into service as a child soldier for the Taliban around the age of 8.

Exactly.

[jbg]

Is that a translation of a Hitler quote?

You just violated Godwin's law.

[eyeball]

So you agree that the Taliban were the ruling force in power during the time of the conflict right...

Do you agree that Al Queda is an armed group of people..

Do you agree that the Canadian Armed Forces are simply an armed group of people?

Then really all one has to do is tie both together during the invasion, which is clearly laid out in what ever ref you use. i used wiki links. link

You link clearly laid out that the Taliban was the government and that Al Qaeda was under the same Ministry of Defence as the army - training it much like our's is now strangely enough. Al Qaeda and the Taliban were simply allies fighting in a war against...another armed group of people.

The sort of common language, terms and definitions contained in your link reflect why so many use similarly common language, terms and definitions to argue why the Geneva Conventions should apply to Omar Khadr.

I guess it is just a wiki link though so I suppose you could go edit it to better suit your purposes if you need to back-peddle later.

Edited May 5, 2012 by eyeball

[PIK]

What is shamefull is the people that suppoprt him. His family hates us and our way of life, that is a fact. Yes he was born here ,but spent little time here, he was born here for certain reasons,and one of them is not to be canadian, but to have a safe place to hide out or for medical reasons.He is not a child soldier, that is a slap in the face to the poor kids that are kidnapped, drug, raped and forced into it, and the fact he has a brother that said no to the family and wants nothing to do with them. The only reason people here are for him ,is because they are anti conservative, I wish people would be more honest about these things, because if the libs were in power and doing the same , you would hear very little about it.

Edited May 5, 2012 by PIK

[bleeding heart]

The only reason people here are for him ,is because they are anti conservative, I wish people would be more honest about these things, because if the libs were in power and doing the same , you would hear very little about it.

All this began when the Liberals were in power. Try to keep up.

[dre]

The West, as we know it, will literally die of this kind of hair splitting. Unless the West gets serious, folks like Omar will destroy us while we debate the finer points of jihad.

THE WEST WILL LITERALLY DIE!!! ...

[dre]

You just violated Godwin's law.

No he didnt. Hes the only one that followed it

[BubberMiley]

You just violated Godwin's law.

Pardon me. It was Himmler (he's very sim'lar):

We had the moral right, we had the duty to our people, to destroy this people which wanted to destroy us.

Edited May 5, 2012 by BubberMiley

[g_bambino]

Omar Khadr is a young Canadian who is being held at the U.S. detention camp for suspected terrorists in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Khadr was just 15 years old when he was captured by U.S. forces in 2002, while fighting for the Taliban in Afghanistan. link

Looking at various sources, there seems to be a general inability to tell whether he was associated with Al Qaeda only, the Taliban only, or that, by the time Khadr fought against the US and Afghan soldiers in 2002, it was essentially impossible to tell Al Qaeda and the Taliban apart.

However, there's another glitch hinted at in the above: In 2001, the Taliban cesaed to be the recognised government of Afghanistan. The Taliban fighters, even if Khadr was indeed among them, were no longer the armed forces of Afghanistan when Khadr was wounded and detained in July 2002.

[ed.: c/e]

Edited May 5, 2012 by g_bambino

[g_bambino]

The West, as we know it, will literally die of this kind of hair splitting.

That seems hard to believe, since the law and the equal application of it to all is the very foundation upon which our civilization is built.

[bleeding heart]

The West, as we know it, will literally die of this kind of hair splitting. Unless the West gets serious, folks like Omar will destroy us while we debate the finer points of jihad.

It's not "hair-splitting"; it's about (among other things) the limits of power, the meaning of partticular laws, and other matters of tremendous import.

I thought you were a lawyer, for crying out loud.

[dre]

It's not "hair-splitting"; it's about (among other things) the limits of power, the meaning of partticular laws, and other matters of tremendous import.

I thought you were a lawyer, for crying out loud.

He may be a lawyer but more importantly hes a dude that has heavily invested himself in this whole idea of Islam being an existential threat to us, and the idea that theres a large holy war approaching in which its quitely literally us or them that will survive.

If you believe that, it seems pretty reasonable that you be willing to play a little "fast and loose" with "the rules" in order to survive.

[bleeding heart]

He may be a lawyer but more importantly hes a dude that has heavily invested himself in this whole idea of Islam being an existential threat to us, and the idea that theres a large holy war approaching in which its quitely literally us or them that will survive.

If you believe that, it seems pretty reasonable that you be willing to play a little "fast and loose" with "the rules" in order to survive.

Ah! Good point.

Meanwhile, the rest of us can live our lives contentedly without worrying about the looming crescent shadow of the impending Caliphate.

Edited May 5, 2012 by bleeding heart