Hamas Wants War

[southerncomfort]

Slow these days long weekend and summer coming, less time for forums, but here's something not so new but still relevant. Course its all Israel's fault doncha know.

Will Israel be provoked into another war this summer? Hamas in Gaza is desperately trying to start a fight. In mid- April, Hamas ended a six-month pause and resumed firing rockets into southern Israel. Three thousand rockets have landed in the past month; 80 in just the past three days. (Video of the attacks can be viewed at http://www.youtube.com/sderot2007)

So far, damage from the rockets has been relatively light: 18 Israelis wounded, property damaged. But twice, Hamas nearly got lucky: on Thursday, a rocket exploded in a high school classroom; another hit a day-care centre on May 7. Both facilities happened to be empty at the time. What if they had been in use?

Israel hit back with five air strikes on Thursday and Friday. But few imagine that these strikes will stop the rockets.

Israel desperately wants not to invade Gaza. Over the past year, Hamas has fortified the region: building bunkers, digging ditches, planting mines. Israelis can recognize a military trap when they see one.

Israelis can also recognize a political trap. For months, Gaza's political factions have waged war on each other. Some 45 Palestinians have died in the fighting in just the past week. Hamas hopes that an Israeli invasion would unite the Gazans against Israel--and under Hamas.

In hope of avoiding the trap, Israel has relied on indirect tactics.

This week, for example, Israel allowed 500 U.S.- trained Palestinian militiamen to enter Gaza read more here

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/is...6d-a440d0ea656e

[Jerry Galinda]

Hamas – need a war as air.

It’s a sense of existence this organization.

[sharkman]

This is so sad. It's obvious who the aggressor is here, sooner or later Israel has to respond. At least Palestine is to busy fighting amongst themselves to strap on the bomb belts.

[scribblet]

This is so sad. It's obvious who the aggressor is here, sooner or later Israel has to respond. At least Palestine is to busy fighting amongst themselves to strap on the bomb belts.

And when they do we know what the response will be - ooohh Israel bad, Israel responded too harshly ooohh shoulda just hit em with a wet noodle and turn the other cheek.

[noahbody]

Hamas – need a war as air.

It’s a sense of existence this organization.

Sometimes I think a good strategy in that part of the world would be to give them all XBOX 360s. Free with exchange of explosives.

[Catchme]

Oh, I give David Frum, about a D- on the shabby article, that could actually be labelled race baiting.

Let's have a critical look at what he says:

"Three thousand rockets have landed in the past month; 80 in just the past three days.

So far, damage from the rockets has been relatively light"

Now, if the rocket launches are occuring for no reason, it stretches the imagination just a bit to think that Hamas has missed targets 3000 times. As they would be pretty incompetant to do so, even the law of averages would say in 3000 launches there would have to be significant damage done at least once, just by accident. It hasn't happened, even once, therefore Hamas is deliberately trying not to hit anything.

But Frum goes on to say they "almost got lucky twice", as the school and the day care centre were empty. His words are nonsense. If they wanted to target them when they were full, they would've. There would be no accidental emptiness.

Then he goes on to whine about the entrenchment of Gaza by Palestinians, as if they have no right to do so. Excuse me, but that land in Gaza, he is speaking of, is not Israeli land.

There is also a newly elected Palestinian unity government that he conviently failed to mention.

Having said all that, I do not agree with Hamas actions either, even though they appear to be fairly benign-- if indeed Hamas is even doing it-- as they bring down the air strikes on Palestinians.

[sharkman]

What's this catchme, you think that by merely saying, "No they didn't fire all those rockets", you have proven your case? You also make a wild accusation about race baiting without providing any reasons why, just flinging mud.

You get an F.

[kimmy]

Now, if the rocket launches are occuring for no reason, it stretches the imagination just a bit to think that Hamas has missed targets 3000 times. As they would be pretty incompetant to do so, even the law of averages would say in 3000 launches there would have to be significant damage done at least once, just by accident. It hasn't happened, even once, therefore Hamas is deliberately trying not to hit anything.

So what is your theory as to the reason for the rockets?

There is also a newly elected Palestinian unity government that he conviently failed to mention.

Are you aware that the factions that comprise this "unity government" have been shooting each other in the streets for the past week?

Having said all that, I do not agree with Hamas actions either, even though they appear to be fairly benign--

Benign? 18 wounded civilians and destroyed schools?

if indeed Hamas is even doing it-- as they bring down the air strikes on Palestinians.

Well no kidding. That's exactly what they're trying to do.

-k

[Catchme]

What's this catchme, you think that by merely saying, "No they didn't fire all those rockets", you have proven your case? You also make a wild accusation about race baiting without providing any reasons why, just flinging mud.

Funny, I never said they didn't fire all those rockets, reading comprehension seems to be a problem here for some. Hard to give someone an F when one can't read critically, or even coherently, eh?!

No wild accusations when it comes to Frum slanting everything possible against Palestinians, while trying to make Israel and their supporters innocent.

[sharkman]

Now, if the rocket launches are occuring for no reason, it stretches the imagination just a bit to think that Hamas has missed targets 3000 times. As they would be pretty incompetant to do so, even the law of averages would say in 3000 launches there would have to be significant damage done at least once, just by accident. It hasn't happened, even once, therefore Hamas is deliberately trying not to hit anything.

I didn't think you were completely serious when you claimed Hamas is deliberately trying not to hit anything, 3000 times. It seems you are. That's quite a leap of faith there you make for Hamas, and of course give none for Frum or Israel.

[Topaz]

The only way to look at situations like this is.... it take two to tango and after watching on TV about the views of the people of both countries, there will never be peace until they BOTH want it and therefore, they are BOTH to blame!!

[scribblet]

Yeah - but not equally right - Hamas doesn't want peace and never has, at least they only want peace when Israel has gone.

Maybe they will kill each other off with all the infighting. Mind you, there's little difference between Fatah and Hamas, Fatah plans to destroy Israel using the "phases plan" and Hamas just wants to destroy Israel suicide bombers and rockets, etc. Here's some quotes from Fagah http://www.netreach.net/~zoa/newsLinks/shockers/m96.htm Of course, the blame game has started now and all this infighting is 'Israel's fault'

Benign actions my foot, now there's a statement that could be called willfully ignorant.

[Argus]

The only way to look at situations like this is.... it take two to tango and after watching on TV about the views of the people of both countries, there will never be peace until they BOTH want it and therefore, they are BOTH to blame!!

The best summary of this I have seen recently was by a BBC correspondent. He said that there are far too many people stuffed into far too small an area, which has no natural resources, and no jobs. The only real jobs come from foreign aid, meaning government jobs, jobs with the security forces, police, etc. Fatah had them all and Hamas wants them all. That is what the fighting between them is about. As for firing rockets into Israel - the currency of power and respect for groups in Gaza is attacking Israel. That is how you get your "street respect" so Hamas is attacking Israel as a means of propaganda against Fatah.

And no, there won't be peace, because even with Palestine "free" it will still have too many people crammed into a tiny area with no natural resources, no wealth and no jobs, with Islamic militants and other fanatics demanding that now that they have "pushed the Israelis out" they "finish the job" by retaking Jerusalem and the rest of "Palestine".

[Guest chilipeppers]

Qassams ignored abroad only after overlooking continuous rockets attacks on Israel's southern communities, foreign media only gives these attacks on Israel airtime, after the IDF fights back

I get it though, does anyone else. Nobody really care about this region unless Israel is the aggressor and can be made the scapegoat when it suits the anti semities

WASHINGTON – Qassam attacks on Sderot have received very little coverage in world media, despite the heavy barrages that have been going on for the past three days.

Only when Israel began to respond to the attacks by aerial bombings, cannons and tanks did this part of the world receive attention from the American media. cont. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...401553,00.html

[mcqueen625]

Oh, I give David Frum, about a D- on the shabby article, that could actually be labelled race baiting.

Let's have a critical look at what he says:

"Three thousand rockets have landed in the past month; 80 in just the past three days.

So far, damage from the rockets has been relatively light"

Now, if the rocket launches are occuring for no reason, it stretches the imagination just a bit to think that Hamas has missed targets 3000 times. As they would be pretty incompetant to do so, even the law of averages would say in 3000 launches there would have to be significant damage done at least once, just by accident. It hasn't happened, even once, therefore Hamas is deliberately trying not to hit anything.

But Frum goes on to say they "almost got lucky twice", as the school and the day care centre were empty. His words are nonsense. If they wanted to target them when they were full, they would've. There would be no accidental emptiness.

Then he goes on to whine about the entrenchment of Gaza by Palestinians, as if they have no right to do so. Excuse me, but that land in Gaza, he is speaking of, is not Israeli land.

There is also a newly elected Palestinian unity government that he conviently failed to mention.

Having said all that, I do not agree with Hamas actions either, even though they appear to be fairly benign-- if indeed Hamas is even doing it-- as they bring down the air strikes on Palestinians.

It is great to see people who are not living under the constant barage of rockets to so lightly dismiss the impact these rocket attacks are having on the people of Israel. What Israel should have done from day 1 after Hamas was sworn into office and the first rocket landed was to consider these rocket attacks as an act of war by a neighbouring country and declare all out war on the Palestinian people. If the Palestinians can declare that there are no innocent Israelis then the same applies for the Palestians, and they can't after firing the missles cry about their civilians being killed when Israel defends herself. If the Palestians are stupid enough to elect a terrorist organization as their government then they have absolutely no room to cry when their civilians start dying, particularly when that faction continues to fire missles into Israel. This is a war and what part of an armed conflict do you not understand? People die in war and the Palestinians have no right to continue firing missles into Israel, putting Israeli lives at risk, and not to expect retaliation. Isreal has every right to defend their land and their people from hostile attacks, just as I would expect our government to retaliate if Canada were attacked. If the Palestians and terrorist lovers like yourself don't like the results of Israel defending themself then for heavens sake convince Hamas to stop instigating a war that they obviously are not capable of winning. If they want to martyr themselves then I think Isreal should oblige them.

[Figleaf]

These discussions are pointless.

North American media never report the incidents of violence that lead Palestinian militants to respond.

And they always manage to ignore the fact that the conflict began when one group of inhabitants' wishes were ignored and someone else's state was imposed on them. Or that the conflict persists with a country illegally occupying the territory earmarked for the state of another people.

These are the elephants in the parlor, and any comments about the issue that don't reflect this reality are certainly pointless and probably propagandistic.

[M.Dancer]

These discussions are pointless.

North American media never report the incidents of violence that lead Palestinian militants to respond.

Nonsense, the palestinian civil war is being covered. The reason Hamas aims these rockets at Israeli civilians is to show how big and important they are.

[Rue]

These discussions are pointless.

North American media never report the incidents of violence that lead Palestinian militants to respond.

Nonsense, the palestinian civil war is being covered. The reason Hamas aims these rockets at Israeli civilians is to show how big and important they are.

Its also interesting Dancingman that a not so unintentional result of Hamas showing it is the big bad guy of the block by shooting missiles at Israel, is that when Israel shoots back, it stops the fighting between Hamas and Al Fatah which started this latest mess in the first place since neither side wants to attack one another when Israel is shooting back for fear they look allied to Israel. Hamas is not stupid. It deliberately provokes an Israeli reaction neutralizing Al Fatah in the process.

The sad reality is that Al Fatah and Hamas have been at civil war for over 3 years. If it weren't for their common belief that Israel should be eradicated they would have turned on each other long ago and it will continue.

The notion that Palestian society is united and has the same opinions is nonsense. At the current time there are well over 300 Palestinian political cells each with their own leader and ideology. The Palestinian Authority like Hamas or the Palestinian Liberation Organization are just names for networks of loosely affiliated terrorist cells.

What is so difficult in Palestine is that to ever achieve any political stability, someone will have to find a way to disarm hundreds of autonomous terrorist cells.

In the interim Palestinians will suffer from their own people's decision to engage in terrorism as opposed to say passive resistance which would immediately neutralize the IDF.

It is truly tragic that it is the very terrorist cells that prevent peace that fuel the endless cycles of violence that only serve to make Palestinians and Israelis completely equal in one sense-and that is in their inability to stop terrorism from killing their civilians.

[Figleaf]

In the interim Palestinians will suffer from their own people's decision to engage in terrorism as opposed to say passive resistance which would immediately neutralize the IDF.

It's true that illegal attacks against Israeli civilians have been a dishonourable tactic for the Palestinians to use.

But it's utterly ridiculous to imagine that the Palestinians would have made a single iota of progress against the zionist hawk elements of Israeli government by using passive resistance. The 'greater Israel' faction would simply laugh all the way to the River Jordan.

[sharkman]

Its also interesting Dancingman that a not so unintentional result of Hamas showing it is the big bad guy of the block by shooting missiles at Israel, is that when Israel shoots back, it stops the fighting between Hamas and Al Fatah which started this latest mess in the first place since neither side wants to attack one another when Israel is shooting back for fear they look allied to Israel. Hamas is not stupid. It deliberately provokes an Israeli reaction neutralizing Al Fatah in the process.

The sad reality is that Al Fatah and Hamas have been at civil war for over 3 years. If it weren't for their common belief that Israel should be eradicated they would have turned on each other long ago and it will continue.

The notion that Palestian society is united and has the same opinions is nonsense. At the current time there are well over 300 Palestinian political cells each with their own leader and ideology. The Palestinian Authority like Hamas or the Palestinian Liberation Organization are just names for networks of loosely affiliated terrorist cells.

What is so difficult in Palestine is that to ever achieve any political stability, someone will have to find a way to disarm hundreds of autonomous terrorist cells.

In the interim Palestinians will suffer from their own people's decision to engage in terrorism as opposed to say passive resistance which would immediately neutralize the IDF.

It is truly tragic that it is the very terrorist cells that prevent peace that fuel the endless cycles of violence that only serve to make Palestinians and Israelis completely equal in one sense-and that is in their inability to stop terrorism from killing their civilians.

If left alone perhaps the two snakes (hamas and al Fatah) would pretty much behead each other leaving the region in relative peace. It's too bad Israel can't deal with the rocket attacks by way of a Patriot Missile type of system that would simply shoot them down. Hopefully one day such a system will be reliable.

[M.Dancer]

It's too bad Israel can't deal with the rocket attacks by way of a Patriot Missile type of system that would simply shoot them down. Hopefully one day such a system will be reliable.

Not practical. It would be like using a million dollar tool to fix a hundred dollar problem. The reason why the Hamas and fatah rocket batteries are so ineffective is because they are unguided homemade weapons. They are cheap to mass producer while Patriots and their more refined Israeli cousins are very, very expensive.

[jester]

why not one of these mounted on a truck and parked on a hill top........

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/mk-15.htm

MK 15 Phalanx Close-In Weapons System (CIWS)

Cheap and nasty and reusable.......

[White Doors]

why not one of these mounted on a truck and parked on a hill top........

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/mk-15.htm

MK 15 Phalanx Close-In Weapons System (CIWS)

Cheap and nasty and reusable.......

Yep, they got those on the CDN Frigates. very cool.

Not so sure about the cheap part though

[M.Dancer]

why not one of these mounted on a truck and parked on a hill top........

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/mk-15.htm

MK 15 Phalanx Close-In Weapons System (CIWS)

Cheap and nasty and reusable.......

And a fine short range defence. As long as your 1000 metres from any rocket....Israel would only need a couple of thousand of them. On the otherhand....it does fire 1000's of rounds towrds the launcher home towns....