iraq troops -'one in 10 said they mistreated civilians'

[kuzadd]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070504/pl_af...qmilitaryhealth

Now the West, and I include Canada, in this , along with the US, Britian and Australia, have been demonstrating their true colours repeatedly to the Arab world. It does not paint a pretty picture of a group of people who allege themselves to be of superiority morally, religiously etc., So let's take a look at the west in iraq.........

Interesting little news story.....

-- About 10 percent of soldiers surveyed reported mistreating non-combatants or damaging their property when it was not necessary;

one in ten have mistreated civilians, that means there are approx 14-14,500 US soldiers who have mistreated iraqi civilians and or damaged their property.WHEN IT WAS NOT NECESSARY.

nevermind what the private mercenaries from Blackwater and KBR have been up to, since there are almost an equal amount of them present in iraq, and no international laws really apply to them, nor are they held to the same standards as US soldiers, one can assume, given there past behaviours in Kosovo, they are up to much worse!

The study by an army mental health advisory team found continuing problems with morale and that acute mental health issues were more prevalent among troops with lengthening tours or on their second and third deployment to Iraq.

This does not bode well for the soldiers, their families, nor the societies in which they will return to, hopefully.

"

They looked under every rock, and what they found was not always easy to look at," said Ward Casscells, the Pentagon's health affairs chief.

"For the first time ever, a sampling of soldiers and marines in combat units were questioned on issues of character, and their answers suggested hardened attitudes toward civilians among front line troops:

-- About 10 percent of soldiers surveyed reported mistreating non-combatants or damaging their property when it was not necessary;

-- Less than half of the soldiers and marines would report a team member for unethical behavior;

-- More than a third of all soldiers and marines reported that torture should be allowed to save the life of a fellow soldier or marine.

"Major General Gale Pollock, the army's acting surgeon general, sought to make a distinction between soldiers' thoughts about torture and their actions.

"But what it speaks to is the leadership that the military is providing, because they're not acting on those thoughts. They're not torturing the people," she said."

well that's debateable, and also somewhat laughable, in light of Abu Ghraib, but, i am not so much concerned with what they think, at this time, though it could be a serious indicator of problems to come.

I am concerned with what they are doing, which is abusing civilians and destroying their property for no reason at all, as they occupy a country against the very wishes of it's citizens!

[jester]

What true colours are you talking about? One in ten means nine don't, unlike the so called insurgents who ALL mistreat murder and destroy as an aim not as a by-product. Do you expect western soldiers to be more moral and gentle than others for some reason? How unfair the world is when you shoot at a western soldier and they shoot back. Less then half would report a team member--when was the last time YOU reported someone at work for wrong-doing? And torture--how far would YOU go to save a family or friends life? Stop being so superior without understanding the problems or situations, if you haven't walked a mile in the shoes don't comment on the trip.............

[Guthrie]

another vietnam analogy -- the weather is insufferable, the enemy has the same face as the people you are supposedly protecting, your friends are getting blown to pieces without the slightest warning, you are hated - again, even by those you are supposedly protecting, you are hated -- so the frustration and fear levels grow

and, oh yes, the military has ordered you to lug around an automatic rifle

ooops

[kuzadd]

What true colours are you talking about? One in ten means nine don't, unlike the so called insurgents who ALL mistreat murder and destroy as an aim not as a by-product. Do you expect western soldiers to be more moral and gentle than others for some reason? How unfair the world is when you shoot at a western soldier and they shoot back. Less then half would report a team member--when was the last time YOU reported someone at work for wrong-doing? And torture--how far would YOU go to save a family or friends life? Stop being so superior without understanding the problems or situations, if you haven't walked a mile in the shoes don't comment on the trip.............

I don't even know that you have read the article in it;s entirety.

How do you garner stats on "insurgents"?

"Stop being so superior without understanding the problems or situations,"

please do recall this when you are spouting superiority then, k?

and promptly admonish yourself quickly for said superiority.

[kuzadd]

another vietnam analogy -- the weather is insufferable, the enemy has the same face as the people you are supposedly protecting, your friends are getting blown to pieces without the slightest warning, you are hated - again, even by those you are supposedly protecting, you are hated -- so the frustration and fear levels grow

and, oh yes, the military has ordered you to lug around an automatic rifle

ooops

I don't think the military looking into this had intended it to be a 'vietnam analogy'.

interesting?

[Wilber]

Wouldn't be surprised if those statistics weren't far off for most wars. It seems this is the first time that anyone has taken the trouble to ask those questions.

[bush_cheney2004]

One doesn't need to go to Iraq to find mistreated "civilians" or damaged property. This topic deserves a heartfelt....SO WHAT? Soldiers are not armed nuns.

[GostHacked]

. Less then half would report a team member--when was the last time YOU reported someone at work for wrong-doing?

Last week I got 3 people fired for smoking pot on their lunch break. Being high does not bode well when you are driving grocery pallet haulers that are the weight of a car, plus a few thousand pounds of grocery.

If you do not report it, you are just as guilty of the crime as the person committing it. I had a responsibility for the crew in terms of health and saftey. They violated it big time and had to be let go.

One doesn't need to go to Iraq to find mistreated "civilians" or damaged property. This topic deserves a heartfelt....SO WHAT? Soldiers are not armed nuns.

This is very dangerous thinking. So what if they torture, So what if they damage things needlessly. When you are trying to bring FREEDOM to the Iraqis, you should be setting the standard high. Yes you must take the moral high ground when trying to change the view of the enemy in how they see you. The more it happens, the more enemies you WILL create. So in the end, it is in your best interest to stop being a prick and rat on any soldier who does not stand up to the code of conduct needed when wearing a US MILITARY UNIFORM.... or unless you are just wanting to look like a soldier, but act like an ordinary thug. If so, shame on you for thinking like that.

You must be better than them to show them that life and things can be better. You must set the example. Everyone there in a US MILITARY UNIFORM is representing the United States of America. Every single one of them. You don't think that affects the outlook on soldiers? So anyone who is a jerk and harasses people and or damaging property needlessly really needs to think about what they are doing and why they are doing it.

But screw them anyways right? Mission accomplished ect. We are making progress, last throes. blah blah blahy blah blah.

Be better than the enemy. This is the only way this war will be won. And the benefit of this is, you will earn respect.

[bush_cheney2004]

This is very dangerous thinking. So what if they torture, So what if they damage things needlessly. When you are trying to bring FREEDOM to the Iraqis, you should be setting the standard high. Yes you must take the moral high ground when trying to change the view of the enemy in how they see you. The more it happens, the more enemies you WILL create. So in the end, it is in your best interest to stop being a prick and rat on any soldier who does not stand up to the code of conduct needed when wearing a US MILITARY UNIFORM.... or unless you are just wanting to look like a soldier, but act like an ordinary thug. If so, shame on you for thinking like that.

You must be better than them to show them that life and things can be better. You must set the example. Everyone there in a US MILITARY UNIFORM is representing the United States of America. Every single one of them. You don't think that affects the outlook on soldiers? So anyone who is a jerk and harasses people and or damaging property needlessly really needs to think about what they are doing and why they are doing it.

But screw them anyways right? Mission accomplished ect. We are making progress, last throes. blah blah blahy blah blah.

Be better than the enemy. This is the only way this war will be won. And the benefit of this is, you will earn respect.

Nonsense....save that for the propaganda videos back home. Such behavior was just as common in WW2. Soldiers come in all flavors and psychological profiles, just like the nation they represent. They're not all frickin' Boy Scouts.

I'm surprised it's only one in ten.

The Code of Conduct has nothing to do with civilians or their property:

http://www.usmcpress.com/heritage/code_conduct.htm

[BubberMiley]

Last week I got 3 people fired for smoking pot on their lunch break. Being high does not bode well when you are driving grocery pallet haulers that are the weight of a car, plus a few thousand pounds of grocery.

Back in my day, I believe there was a popular song that dealt with this issue. It went something like:

"Snitches snitches snitches

They be running they mouth just like bitches

Snitches snitches snitches

I got a slug for ya'll muthaf*ckin' snitches"

[GostHacked]

Last week I got 3 people fired for smoking pot on their lunch break. Being high does not bode well when you are driving grocery pallet haulers that are the weight of a car, plus a few thousand pounds of grocery.

Back in my day, I believe there was a popular song that dealt with this issue. It went something like:

"Snitches snitches snitches

They be running they mouth just like bitches

Snitches snitches snitches

I got a slug for ya'll muthaf*ckin' snitches"

So if someone was stoned while using heavy machinery, you would have no problem with it?? Not concerned about health and saftey at all?? Besides I am part of management here at my work, so I do have an obligation towards the saftey of everyone in the warehouse. I have had several guys actually thank me for my actions. Time and a place for everything and smoking pot on your lunch break is not one of them.

I used to live in Sudbury Ont. Most of the places I worked, you did not fear management, but your fellow worker. If you messed up, a good deal of them are on your case about it. If it was not solved, you had to follow up with management. I live in Ottawa now. Different mentality here. No one wants to snitch for fear of reprocussions. I stand by what I did 100%. It was the right thing to do. If someone got hurt (and when driving a 3000lb machine with a couple tonnes of grocery it can easily happen) then the company is liable for it, because people know the others are stoned.

Now what is even funnier is that I am telling people I am the snitch. Not afraid to tell everyone that I was 100% right in my actions.

So don't screw up and you wont get in shit for it. Do the job you were assigned to do and do it to the best of your ability. Don't even try, trying is for loosers.

This applies to those military guys as well. You have to know that each and every member of your team will have your back. when it comes down to it. You need to know you can trust these people with your life. If they are not acting in terms of the uniform, then they should not be wearing it. Stop making excuses and set a high standard for the military. If you keep on making excuses, then you are just as bad as those in the feild committing these unwanted acts and with those who don't say anything when they know they should. I recall when wearing a military uniform meant something. Have pride in your job and don't be an ass.

Nonsense....save that for the propaganda videos back home. Such behavior was just as common in WW2. Soldiers come in all flavors and psychological profiles, just like the nation they represent. They're not all frickin' Boy Scouts.

Well, when you send out your military, you want to make sure you have the best of the best to represent you while in the field correct? Remeber, these guys commit these acts, creates more terrorism and eventually it will come back to bite you in the homeland ass.

Just because it happened in WW2 does not make it right. Again stop making excuses.

[bush_cheney2004]

Well, when you send out your military, you want to make sure you have the best of the best to represent you while in the field correct? Remeber, these guys commit these acts, creates more terrorism and eventually it will come back to bite you in the homeland ass.

Just because it happened in WW2 does not make it right. Again stop making excuses.

Poppycock....you can find every extreme in the human condition during armed conflict from good to bad in individuals and it has nothing to do with creating more "terrorism". Stop pretending these guys are rangers in Banff National Park.

Did Somali terrorists attack Canada because of actions by the Airborne Regiment?

It's called "war" for a reason.

[GostHacked]

Well, when you send out your military, you want to make sure you have the best of the best to represent you while in the field correct? Remeber, these guys commit these acts, creates more terrorism and eventually it will come back to bite you in the homeland ass.

Just because it happened in WW2 does not make it right. Again stop making excuses.

Poppycock....you can find every extreme in the human condition during armed conflict from good to bad in individuals and it has nothing to do with creating more "terrorism". Stop pretending these guys are rangers in Banff National Park.

Did Somali terrorists attack Canada because of actions by the Airborne Regiment?

It's called "war" for a reason.

Small edit Le.

So this is your justification for invading Iraq after 9/11? Because all of the terrorists were either Saudi or Pakistani?? Please. And you will find that the Homeland US is now even in more grave danger by creating more terrorists over seas.

Yes you can find extreme human condition in every society and armed conflict. But be damned if anyone actually DOES anything about it. No, just sit back, complain about it, but don't even try to come up with a solution.

Again, stop making excuses.

Hey hows that plot at Fort Dixx panning out?

[bush_cheney2004]

Small edit Le.

So this is your justification for invading Iraq after 9/11? Because all of the terrorists were either Saudi or Pakistani?? Please. And you will find that the Homeland US is now even in more grave danger by creating more terrorists over seas.

Yes you can find extreme human condition in every society and armed conflict. But be damned if anyone actually DOES anything about it. No, just sit back, complain about it, but don't even try to come up with a solution.

Again, stop making excuses.

Hey hows that plot at Fort Dixx panning out?

What are you rambling on about....should I expect massive waves of Vietnamese terrorists any day now because of boorish troop behavior in 'Nam?

The US (and others including Canada) invaded, bombed, strangled, and starved Iraq long before 9/11.

[GostHacked]

What are you rambling on about....should I expect massive waves of Vietnamese terrorists any day now because of boorish troop behavior in 'Nam?

The US (and others including Canada) invaded, bombed, strangled, and starved Iraq long before 9/11.

This is just another excuse. It happened before, so what. I guess people are not for change or for good then.

Anyone in a military uniform, US, Canada, UK, ect have a standard to hold up. Not living up to it? Take off the uniform. A police officer would be held accountable for these kinds of actions so why not a miliraty person?

How about this, if 1 in ten said something about it. I am wondering what are the numbers for the incidents that are not getting reported.

[Wilber]

Interesting, people are beating up on the Yanks on this yet their's is the first army in history to actually do a study on this subject. It was a US army study, not some independant watchdog. Go figure, they actually wanted to know and made it public yet. Those scumbags. Why would we be so arrogant as to think it could only happen to them?

[M.Dancer]

About 10 percent of soldiers surveyed reported mistreating non-combatants or damaging their property when it was not necessary;

Is it just me or does anyonme one else consider damaging property a whole lot less serious than the other?

And that being the case, isn't it a lot more likely that there are a lot more cases of damaged property than mistreated civilians?

What would the percentage be if property were to be removed?

[sharkman]

Good point. They're facing bombers and worse 24-7 and have to stay for up to 6 month tours. It's a shit job they have to do and I'm surprised they're holding up so well.