I don't read the Toronto Sun, but where is it on the spectrum?

[1967100]

I have always ignored the Toronto sun because it looks more like a magazine than an actual newspaper that one could get decent news out of. The Toronto sun is the only newspaper where graphics fills in more space than the actual writing. Not too much information.

Now, I was curious as to who the Sun is against and who they are for.

My guess is since it looks like a magazine it has to be left-leaning because conservative magazines don't look so artful.

Ain't I correct?

[mikedavid00]

My guess is since it looks like a magazine it has to be left-leaning because conservative magazines don't look so artful.

Ain't I correct?

No the Sun is more right wing IMO. Working man's right wing. But of course there's giong to be left articles thrown in. The articles are shorter and more honest. Less intillectual and complicated. More big on the Leafs and sports. I think it's at a grade 7 reading level where the Nation Post is at a grade 9 or 10 reading level. A lot of their material is online.

On the website today http://www.torontosun.com

On the website:

"Point of view: Liberal hypocrisy on torture"

[jbg]

Anything's better than the Star. I like the Post. After all, I was quoted in the March 10, 2004 issue. (exposng anti-Jewish hatred by CBC moderators on the CBC boards).

[geoffrey]

I'm a Globe and Mail guy myself, thought I read the Post often as well. The Star is definitely left leaning, the Post definitely right leaning and the Globe and Mail has that beautiful pro-business, pro-liberty balance that I've come to love and admire.

[gc1765]

I'm a Globe and Mail guy myself, thought I read the Post often as well. The Star is definitely left leaning, the Post definitely right leaning and the Globe and Mail has that beautiful pro-business, pro-liberty balance that I've come to love and admire.

I agree with everything in your post...although I only read the Post because that's what we get at work. I prefer the globe.

[geoffrey]

We're lucky enough to get all the major publications at work... so I get a variety. I just can't stand the Star though, it's like a Sun media paper with just a touch of class. The lumberjack at the opera if you will. Both the Post and Globe are reasonable.

[gc1765]

naaaah the post is crap. It's so blatanltly biased...but I guess you don't mind that being a conservative and all, just like I don't mind the star so much (though I prefer the globe). The globe is the closest thing to neutral of all the major papers I have read.

[Shakeyhands]

funny, I would have positioned them like this...

Globe & Mail ------------Toronto Star ------------ Sun---------National Post.

[buffycat]

Anything's better than the Star. I like the Post. After all, I was quoted in the March 10, 2004 issue. (exposng anti-Jewish hatred by CBC moderators on the CBC boards).

I've heard you boast this before. Though it seems that your take is somewhat tilted:

"Things came to a head in March 2004, when the National Post published a front page story proclaiming, "CBC Web site bars use of word 'Jewish.'" Frustrated web staff had added the word to the filter list after a deluge of anti-Semitic comments. But an American lawyer and site user complained, noting that his comments were blocked while offensive ones using "Juwish" or "rabid Zionist" were not. (In reality, posts containing “trigger” words were held in a queue for a moderator to review before posting, but to the user it looked like the posts were being rejected.)"

One thing I have noticed on other forums, often a troll will come and post really horrid stuff to shut down honest conversation - usually they are 'working' for the other side, ie sort of a false flag. I have seen you do this here too - with snippets such as 'Israel must be a terrible place to live etc.) Taken out of context those posts only add to a misconception (that you are anti-jewish) - which clearly you aren't, but the post is offensive anyway. Oddly it's you who did it. Is this how you operated on the CBC boards?

Anyways - the post, the sun, the star the mop and pail are all pretty much the same IMV - none give nearly the background needed to form real opinions and all are big on propoganda. Good to scan them all, keeping in mind the narrow ownership of big media in Canada.

[scribblet]

naaaah the post is crap. It's so blatanltly biased...but I guess you don't mind that being a conservative and all, just like I don't mind the star so much (though I prefer the globe). The globe is the closest thing to neutral of all the major papers I have read.

Boy, if you want biased read the Toronto Star, ugh

The Sun isn't as right wing as it used to be, it doesn't always support the conservatives.

[Topaz]

To get a wider view of what is happening in Canada and outside, I go to www.bourque.org It's one of the many website that has alot more choice of news then newspapers.

[M.Dancer]

My guess is since it looks like a magazine it has to be left-leaning because conservative magazines don't look so artful.

Ain't I correct?

The Sun is really too light weight intellectually to be considered seriously...either right or left wing. It's a populous sensationalist tabloid that caters to blue collar/pink collar workers and is that's heavy on sports and crime with a tendancy to play the demagogue.

My favourite Sun story came from an ad rep who was paying a call on a high end down town audio-video components store....the rep being frustrated by the lack of interest being shown by the GM finally says.... "Our readers are your customers!"

"No" says the GM, "Your readers are our shoplifters"

[jbg]

I've heard you boast this before. Though it seems that your take is somewhat tilted:

"Things came to a head in March 2004, when the National Post published a front page story proclaiming, "CBC Web site bars use of word 'Jewish.'" Frustrated web staff had added the word to the filter list after a deluge of anti-Semitic comments. But an American lawyer and site user complained, noting that his comments were blocked while offensive ones using "Juwish" or "rabid Zionist" were not. (In reality, posts containing “trigger” words were held in a queue for a moderator to review before posting, but to the user it looked like the posts were being rejected.)"

Tilted? Here are the facts.

The CBC said that they were merely "filtering" the words "Jew" or "Israel" for manual review, to make sure that the post itself was appropriate. I manually posted "Happy Purim from the J3ws to the non-J3ws", changing the word "Jew" to "J3w". It posted at 12:04 p.m. on March 8, 2004, and was manually deleted less than five (5) minutes later. This belied the CBC's contention that it was "filtering" to prevent offensive posting. The lie offended me almost as much as the clear anti-Jewish bias. I personally don't enjoy being lied to, and I sent a complaint to the Canadian Jewish Congress, e-mail copied to a few people on my mailing list interested in Jewish subjects.

One of those, a prominent Edmonton-area columnist, forwarded my e-mail to Brian Hutchinson of the National Post. After several e-mails were exchanged, myself and another poster, from Peterborough, ON, wound up on a conference call. After the CBC didn't comment during the day on March 9, 2004 the National Post article ran on March 10, 2004. The CBC pulled the bulletin board on April 3, 2004. The PDF of the National Post article is available by e-mail by private message request to me.

One thing I have noticed on other forums, often a troll will come and post really horrid stuff to shut down honest conversation - usually they are 'working' for the other side, ie sort of a false flag. I have seen you do this here too - with snippets such as 'Israel must be a terrible place to live etc.) Taken out of context those posts only add to a misconception (that you are anti-jewish) - which clearly you aren't, but the post is offensive anyway. Oddly it's you who did it. Is this how you operated on the CBC boards?

In general, I am a serious poster, though known for occasional sarcasm, as you correctly point out. If that bothers you, I am humbly, sincerely sorry.

[Charles Anthony]

The CBC said that they were merely "filtering" the words "Jew" or "Israel" for manual review, to make sure that the post itself was appropriate. I manually posted "Happy Purim from the J3ws to the non-J3ws", changing the word "Jew" to "J3w". It posted at 12:04 p.m. on March 8, 2004, and was manually deleted less than five (5) minutes later.

I see nothing wrong with them taking the liberty of deleting your post.

Why did you need to send out a mispelled j3w15h blessing?

I will be so bold as to say your post was trolling because it was deliberate. Modern txt-mssge-orthography is silly and they may not want any of it.

[Figleaf]

Tilted? Here are the facts.

The CBC said that they were merely "filtering" the words "Jew" or "Israel" for manual review, to make sure that the post itself was appropriate. I manually posted "Happy Purim from the J3ws to the non-J3ws", changing the word "Jew" to "J3w". It posted at 12:04 p.m. on March 8, 2004, and was manually deleted less than five (5) minutes later. This belied the CBC's contention that it was "filtering" to prevent offensive posting. The lie offended me almost as much as the clear anti-Jewish bias. I personally don't enjoy being lied to, and I sent a complaint to the Canadian Jewish Congress, e-mail copied to a few people on my mailing list interested in Jewish subjects.

One of those, a prominent Edmonton-area columnist, forwarded my e-mail to Brian Hutchinson of the National Post. After several e-mails were exchanged, myself and another poster, from Peterborough, ON, wound up on a conference call. After the CBC didn't comment during the day on March 9, 2004 the National Post article ran on March 10, 2004. The CBC pulled the bulletin board on April 3, 2004. The PDF of the National Post article is available by e-mail by private message request to me.

...

In general, I am a serious poster, though known for occasional sarcasm, as you correctly point out. If that bothers you, I am humbly, sincerely sorry.

Your narrative is sickening. You were a participant at an opinion forum CBC was attempting to operate responsibly. Given the difficulties and technical challenges involved in screening out determined anti-semites, it is disturbing that you employed a clever ruse to first circumvent their efforts and then blamed them for the attempt. What was your objective? What was your real motivation? I see nothing in your behaviour other than sabotage.

[Keepitsimple]

I subscribe to both The Star and Sun (go figure). I buy the Post every now and then.

The weekly editorials for the Sun are OK - the Sunday Sun's are very good. The general news is OK for a quick scan and the Sports pullout is convenient. Check out their website and read the Editorials - you may find that it's a handy-sized paper for a quick morning read with a coffee.

The Star is a cheerleader for the Liberals and when that's not feasible, they'll switch to the NDP. Many of their general political news articles are "editorialized" to the extent that many look like they were written by smug anti-conservative college students. The Post and the Globe are almost always gentlemanly, using "Mr. Harper" and "Mr. Dion" in their reporting. The Star never uses "Mr. Harper" except via sarcasm. The Star hates the Conservatives - there's just no other way to describe it. I lean to the right but I guess I have masochistic tendencies - hence my Star subscription....but really, I like to get opiniuons from the Left and the Right.

The Post is a Conservative supporter but they often take whacks at them just the same. I read them to get the view from the Right. I find that they lean right as opposed to the Star which is so far Left they have fallen over.

I only read the Globe a few times a year. I find then a little snobby....can't really put my finger on it.

[jbg]

Your narrative is sickening. You were a participant at an opinion forum CBC was attempting to operate responsibly. Given the difficulties and technical challenges involved in screening out determined anti-semites, it is disturbing that you employed a clever ruse to first circumvent their efforts and then blamed them for the attempt. What was your objective? What was your real motivation? I see nothing in your behaviour other than sabotage.

THey allowed plenty of anti-Jewish, anti-Chinese, anti-French slurs to stand as well. The place was not responsibly operated.

There were death threats against forum members that were not deleted.

[jbg]

I see nothing wrong with them taking the liberty of deleting your post. Why did you need to send out a mispelled j3w15h blessing?

I will be so bold as to say your post was trolling because it was deliberate. Modern txt-mssge-orthography is silly and they may not want any of it.

Your anarchism's on holiday?

[Figleaf]

Your narrative is sickening. You were a participant at an opinion forum CBC was attempting to operate responsibly. Given the difficulties and technical challenges involved in screening out determined anti-semites, it is disturbing that you employed a clever ruse to first circumvent their efforts and then blamed them for the attempt. What was your objective? What was your real motivation? I see nothing in your behaviour other than sabotage.

THey allowed plenty of anti-Jewish, anti-Chinese, anti-French slurs to stand as well. The place was not responsibly operated.

There were death threats against forum members that were not deleted.

Sounds like they were having a lot of troll trouble. I don't see how that can make your contrivance to undermine their efforts any more acceptable. In fact, it looks like you set up a situation that let you falsely play the 'race' card in order to deliberately shut the place down, interfering with the plans of the corporation and the enjoyment of all the other users.

Reprehensible.

[buffycat]

Sadly, it's the squeaky wheel which gets the grease.

I tend to agree with others though - that was certainly trolling. Nothing to be all proud of.

[sharkman]

THey allowed plenty of anti-Jewish, anti-Chinese, anti-French slurs to stand as well. The place was not responsibly operated.

There were death threats against forum members that were not deleted.

Sounds like they were having a lot of troll trouble. I don't see how that can make your contrivance to undermine their efforts any more acceptable. In fact, it looks like you set up a situation that let you falsely play the 'race' card in order to deliberately shut the place down, interfering with the plans of the corporation and the enjoyment of all the other users.

Reprehensible.

This is a perfect example of making a judgement based on incomplete data. Figleaf and others do not have all of the facts and make decisions. You only had one witness's account, and made assumptions that this witness must be somehow wrong.

Then when the witness provided information about death threats, Figleaf's bias against all things Jewish prevented him from returning to a neutral stance or perhaps condemning those who would make death threats. One could surmise that Figleaf is attempting to troll, except knowing Figgy's bias, he's simply expressing it.

Which is pretty much what various media outlets do I suppose. BTW, I prefer the Post, the GM has been pretty left and they also hired Christie Blatchford away from the Post, I will never forgive that transgression.

[jbg]

Sounds like they were having a lot of troll trouble. I don't see how that can make your contrivance to undermine their efforts any more acceptable. In fact, it looks like you set up a situation that let you falsely play the 'race' card in order to deliberately shut the place down, interfering with the plans of the corporation and the enjoyment of all the other users.

Reprehensible.

For the record, there was an insider clique whose behavior would, if on this Board, be considered trolling. One of the posts the "moderators" let stand was a wish that I'd be on a Jerusalem bus caught in a suicide bombing.

[Figleaf]

... Figleaf's bias against all things Jewish ...

Dirty filthy lie.

[Figleaf]

Sounds like they were having a lot of troll trouble. I don't see how that can make your contrivance to undermine their efforts any more acceptable. In fact, it looks like you set up a situation that let you falsely play the 'race' card in order to deliberately shut the place down, interfering with the plans of the corporation and the enjoyment of all the other users.

Reprehensible.

For the record, there was an insider clique whose behavior would, if on this Board, be considered trolling. One of the posts the "moderators" let stand was a wish that I'd be on a Jerusalem bus caught in a suicide bombing.

Hmm. I wonder if the other posters on that forum would concur with your perspective on that. In any event, your plot was carried out against the very efforts to prevent abuses that might have eventually been successful.

[jbg]

Hmm. I wonder if the other posters on that forum would concur with your perspective on that. In any event, your plot was carried out against the very efforts to prevent abuses that might have eventually been successful.

One thing left-wingers (and I consider myself quite liberal) are never good with is nuts and bolts facts. The filtering of the words "Jew" and "Israel" started in November 2003. The use of anti-ethnic epithets (including, but not only, Jews) escalated wildly after this ban was put into place.

What seems to upset you is that I caught CBC management in a blatant lie. They were not "filtering" objectionable posts; they were moderating with a bias. Akin to a referee at a pinball tournament who tilts the machines for favored players.

I am PMing you a sampling of the stuff that the moderators allowed to remain posted.