Alberta Jobs

[Drea]

There is one thing that concerns me about all of this. As young people head off to make high wages, many with no skills or training, (some as thick as fence posts!) all of this reinforces the growth of an entire generation with a trumped up sense of its own worth and as materialistic as hell. Many are surrending their youth to get a big truck or car, skidoos, a house, and so on. No longer do I hear young people talking about travelling, climbing mountains, learning to fly, or curing cancer. All I seem to hear is money, money, money, and I see them acting superior. Many are extremely greedy. And many of them are as dull as watching grass grow!

What is even more astounding is when I hear them saying they have trouble "making it" when they can bring in $7000 a month!

I think many will be in for a rude shock when the boom dies and they discover what they are really worth.

That is so true China.

They've not done anything to get where they are (built a career "ladder" so to speak) so that they will (at some point) fall to the bottom rung and be wondering what happened.

I'm encouraging my son (he's 13 now) to go on to University -- Trades -- College. Anything that helps him build a strong career ladder.

[B. Max]

Alberta has always had a boom and bust economy.

"Always"? Alberta has only existed for a little over a hundred years!

So what?

[Figleaf]

Alberta has always had a boom and bust economy.

"Always"? Alberta has only existed for a little over a hundred years!

So what?

So saying 'always' seems a little ambitious.

[Ricki Bobbi]

So saying 'always' seems a little ambitious.

Uhh, your attack seems a little pedantic.

I'll illustrate a proper way to deal with that statement that uses facts and doesn't deal with personal insults and actually has proof.

Alberta has existed for 101 years.

The first oil discovery was in 1947, Leduc #1.

So for only 60% of Alberta's existence it has had a boom and bust economy.

60% is a long way from always.

See no need for personal attacks. Just provide proof to substantiate your claim.

[Figleaf]

So saying 'always' seems a little ambitious.

Uhh, your attack seems a little pedantic.

What "attack"???

I'll illustrate a proper way to deal with that statement that uses facts and doesn't deal with personal insults and actually has proof.

"Deal with"???

"Facts"???

"Personal insults"???

What on Earth are you yammering about???

Have you been drinking before posting again? At the very least, you appear to have misinterpreted the motivation of my comment.

[B. Max]

So saying 'always' seems a little ambitious.

Well let me qualify that. Always since I can remember.

[Charles Anthony]

Proves your point??? The fact that Newfies are leaving Newfoundland to seek work disproves your point.

Did you read this thread before commenting? 'Cause the other poster is complaining that there's not enogh Newfies in Alberta.

Do you know how to read? Do you understand what "not enough Newfies in Alberta" means?

That means that Newfies are in Alberta.

That means Newfies left Newfoundland.

That means Newfies chose wages (and the work that goes with earning those wages) in Alberta OVER your subsidized non-work in Newfoundland.

That disproves your point. Your point was:

If Alberta industries can't outbid Newfie welfare benefits, then I think that proves my point about them not being willing to pay competitive wages.

Thus, your point makes no sense (unless the intention is deception or politics) after reading this thread.

poor people (who work for a pittance) are taxed and subsidize non-working rich (who do not work)

You mean the idiot-sons of millionaires?

Now you are diverting and twisting your own words. These roundabouts are fun.

People in Alberta (original Albertans and Newfie emigres) who have to work (for the same amount of money or less than "Newfie welfare benefits" -- your words) are poor compared to people (recipients of your higher than competitive "Newfie welfare benefits") who do NOT have to work.

[Figleaf]

Proves your point??? The fact that Newfies are leaving Newfoundland to seek work disproves your point.

Did you read this thread before commenting? 'Cause the other poster is complaining that there's not enogh Newfies in Alberta.

Do you know how to read? Do you understand what "not enough Newfies in Alberta" means?

That means that Newfies are in Alberta.

That means Newfies left Newfoundland.

That means Newfies chose wages (and the work that goes with earning those wages) in Alberta OVER your subsidized non-work in Newfoundland.

That disproves your point. Your point was:

If Alberta industries can't outbid Newfie welfare benefits, then I think that proves my point about them not being willing to pay competitive wages.

Thus, your point makes no sense (unless the intention is deception or politics) after reading this thread.

???

I still have the strong impression that you've failed to follow this thread. You're impression that you've disproved my point is incoherent.

poor people (who work for a pittance) are taxed and subsidize non-working rich (who do not work)

You mean the idiot-sons of millionaires?

Now you are diverting and twisting your own words. These roundabouts are fun.

Yeah, whatever. If you expect me to respond to you, I urge you to try making some kind of sense first.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Let me add some balance here.

I used to live in Alberta but found it to be generally ugly and cold. Most of Alberta is kind of like Saskatchewan with nicer roads, some new neighbourhoods and some tall buildings. Oh and don't forget the people who think $80K a year is "lots of money"

Besides the rockies, which are on the very western edge, Alberta has really shitty campgrounds and lakes. In fact, most of the lakes are dying or dried up from water usage in the oil industry. The other ones are sloughs with leeches surrounded by 10 foot poplar trees. It's really pretty bad.

I actually know lots of newfies who moved to Alberta for greener pastures and then decided they hated it and moved back home for less money.

But really it's a good thing that people are improving their lives in Alberta.

In reality the whole splash about Alberta comes down to this: if you don't have work or are willing to uproot your life for an extra 10-20K a year, then Alberta is the place for you.

The sign should read: "give us your uneducated, your displaced, your newfies, your burger flippers..."

Certainly life is better in Alberta for the unskilled or limited-skilled.

For lots of us, though, we can find work anywhere and prefer more beautiful, cosmopolitan locations.

From an Albertan "lifer" (me), the question you need to ask yourself is: do you want to live in a shitty climate with a baron landscape for a few extra bucks? And since Alberta no longer has a low cost of living, how much are you really gaining?

There is lots of work in the country.

[Figleaf]

Interesting comments, Jerry.

In addition, I would point out that for people at the level of 'burger flippers', it seems plainly absurd to expect them to abandon their families and support networks, to invest in the cost of moving hundreds or thousands of miles, to a place where they can't afford any kind of home, all for a mere promise of a salary of '10-11 dollars and hour' (i.e. less than 30K/yr.).

[JerrySeinfeld]

Interesting comments, Jerry.

In addition, I would point out that for people at the level of 'burger flippers', it seems plainly absurd to expect them to abandon their families and support networks, to invest in the cost of moving hundreds or thousands of miles, to a place where they can't afford any kind of home, all for a mere promise of a salary of '10-11 dollars and hour' (i.e. less than 30K/yr.).

As far as a "boom" - Alberta's booms are always pretty ugly.

I thought they would've learned from the 70's. I was there for that one. Tons of homes and condo's built on the cheap, and quick, with no regard for styling or architechture. And hurried construction of stripmalls in the middle of nowhere.

Has anyone actually seen the suburbs of Calgary and Edmonton? They are BUTT ugly. It seems Alberta's boomtime mentality has no regard for longevity or urban planning. It's just plain ugly. The houses are all built with faux stucco and other materials that look nice now but end up looking cheap and ugly within 5-10 years. The neighbourhoods have no trees or back allyways and the "community" revolves around a strip mall with an esso station, a rogers video and a mac's convenience store.

Sure, there are the petroleum clubs, the brand new jazz clubs and wine bars in downtown calgary or edmonton, but that's a small percentage of the overall picture. Most people who move to Alberta from the east are in for a lack-of-culture shock. Unless you want to join the throngs of wal-marters hanging around the mall's food-court bragging about your measly $5K per year raise, consider some other options...

[Black Dog]

I thought they would've learned from the 70's. I was there for that one. Tons of homes and condo's built on the cheap, and quick, with no regard for styling or architechture. And hurried construction of stripmalls in the middle of nowhere.

Has anyone actually seen the suburbs of Calgary and Edmonton? They are BUTT ugly. It seems Alberta's boomtime mentality has no regard for longevity or urban planning. It's just plain ugly. The houses are all built with faux stucco and other materials that look nice now but end up looking cheap and ugly within 5-10 years. The neighbourhoods have no trees or back allyways and the "community" revolves around a strip mall with an esso station, a rogers video and a mac's convenience store.

Sure, there are the petroleum clubs, the brand new jazz clubs and wine bars in downtown calgary or edmonton, but that's a small percentage of the overall picture. Most people who move to Alberta from the east are in for a lack-of-culture shock. Unless you want to join the throngs of wal-marters hanging around the mall's food-court bragging about your measly $5K per year raise, consider some other options...

This has gotta be a first: I agree. Bad urban planning is not confined to Alberta, but with all the money flowing through Alberta, one would think there'd be a little bit more attention to planning and design. One would be wrong.

Then again, Albertans, by and large, are only concerned with money and the tawdry displays of pseudo-wealth it buys them. Aesthetic considerations (to say nothing of sustainability) just don't register.

[JerrySeinfeld]

And just to add a side note: what is with Calgary and the white hats with red vests? It's totally provincial and quite lame.

I mean, get over 1988 already.

Calgary has got to be the biggest dissapointment of any city to visit. Not because it's so bad. It's Regina with lexus' and a hockey team.

But because I swear there is some secret indoctrination that happens when people move there. I think they have a training session for every calgarian on how to promote the city (and annoy everyone in the room) when you go abroad.

Never in my life have I heard so many big braggy things about such an average place to live.

After all the pump-up by it's citizens, people who have never seen calgary before must drive down the deerfoot and think "THIS is what the fuss is all about?"

[geoffrey]

You don't come to Calgary for the lifestyle, you come here to make money, then you leave.

Unless your a skier... then you stay.

[White Doors]

Jerry, you think you were adding balance? please!

I moved to AB in 1996 from NB. Quite a different place to be sure. I learned to love it in it's own way. Alberta is really a beautiful place. Lack of trees and being flatter and less water than i was used to was different for me. I have made a great living here and Calgary has treated me very well. Alot more opportunity here for me than NB had and for that I am grateful and always will be. Calgary is a very clean city, very new and very fast growing and all the benefits and hurdles associated with that. The people are very nice. Nicest people especially for a city this size.

That being said, I'm pulling up stakes and moving back in the summer but Alberta will always have a special place in my heart.

Jerry, making fun of people for thinking $80k a year is alot of money is very pompous and makes you look like a jerk. You living in T.O. now per chance?

[White Doors]

Then again, Albertans, by and large, are only concerned with money and the tawdry displays of pseudo-wealth it buys them

Are you by chance a person who also refers to Albertans as a bunch of red necks? Stereo-type much?

[JerrySeinfeld]

Then again, Albertans, by and large, are only concerned with money and the tawdry displays of pseudo-wealth it buys them

Are you by chance a person who also refers to Albertans as a bunch of red necks? Stereo-type much?

I'm from Alberta originally and I can attest to Dog's comments.

When you talk to an Albertan, guarenteed the first or second thing that comes out of their mouth will be about "whoa the economy is booming like CRAZY there, everyone is making so much money - hey have you seen my new truck?"

Albertans (not all, but generally) seem to want to direct the conversation around Alberta's wealth and boom. To me that's a people who are mostly concerned with money and tawdry displays of it.

Other parts of the country are booming along quite nicely, too. But there are many more other things to talk about than your latest raise.

[White Doors]

Then again, Albertans, by and large, are only concerned with money and the tawdry displays of pseudo-wealth it buys them

Are you by chance a person who also refers to Albertans as a bunch of red necks? Stereo-type much?

I'm from Alberta originally and I can attest to Dog's comments.

When you talk to an Albertan, guarenteed the first or second thing that comes out of their mouth will be about "whoa the economy is booming like CRAZY there, everyone is making so much money - hey have you seen my new truck?"

Albertans (not all, but generally) seem to want to direct the conversation around Alberta's wealth and boom. To me that's a people who are mostly concerned with money and tawdry displays of it.

Other parts of the country are booming along quite nicely, too. But there are many more other things to talk about than your latest raise.

Really? What other parts of the country are this? I talk to Albertans everyday as I live here and am one and the only thing that comes up is the weather and how bad traffic is getting. Sounds like the ugle emotion of envy is colouring alot of people's view on the province. There really isn't anythign to be envious about.

Alot of people sarcifice alot in order to move here, like I did. Maybe you guys just need new friends?

[JerrySeinfeld]

Then again, Albertans, by and large, are only concerned with money and the tawdry displays of pseudo-wealth it buys them

Are you by chance a person who also refers to Albertans as a bunch of red necks? Stereo-type much?

I'm from Alberta originally and I can attest to Dog's comments.

When you talk to an Albertan, guarenteed the first or second thing that comes out of their mouth will be about "whoa the economy is booming like CRAZY there, everyone is making so much money - hey have you seen my new truck?"

Albertans (not all, but generally) seem to want to direct the conversation around Alberta's wealth and boom. To me that's a people who are mostly concerned with money and tawdry displays of it.

Other parts of the country are booming along quite nicely, too. But there are many more other things to talk about than your latest raise.

Really? What other parts of the country are this? I talk to Albertans everyday as I live here and am one and the only thing that comes up is the weather and how bad traffic is getting. Sounds like the ugle emotion of envy is colouring alot of people's view on the province. There really isn't anythign to be envious about.

Alot of people sarcifice alot in order to move here, like I did. Maybe you guys just need new friends?

Envy? I left Alberta voluntarily and with a smile on my face.

As far as other parts of the country booming, just look west my friend

BC's Economy Is Doing Very Well

There are at least 30-some odd tower cranes in downtown vancouver alone. I don't even think Calgary or Edmonton could boast that about their downtown development.

[Drea]

Envy? I left Alberta voluntarily and with a smile on my face.

As far as other parts of the country booming, just look west my friend

BC's Economy Is Doing Very Well

There are at least 30-some odd tower cranes in downtown vancouver alone. I don't even think Calgary or Edmonton could boast that about their downtown development.

But all the jobs pay only minimum wage.... and all in (ewwwwww) tourism.

Kidding -- I'm from BC and know we are doing well -- Albertans always think the only job creation here is min. wage tourism support positions and the ONLY highpaying jobs are in the oil patch.

[JerrySeinfeld]

But all the jobs pay only minimum wage.... and all in (ewwwwww) tourism.

GDP grew by 4.0% in BC last year. No matter how you slice it up - you can't argue with that.

[Live From China]

I don't think that people from one province are any more obsessed with money than those from another province.

What I do see and year - and it concerns me - are young people who are obsessed with money, money, money They are heading to Alberta for money, money, money! Some get jobs pulling in (clearing!) $7000 per month. Many are in for a real shock when the boom dies and they have to scuttle back to jobs where they "only" make $15/h.

But what really concerns me is the young people that are sacrificing their youth for money. I don't hear them talking about political, social or environmental issues, education or goals. What I hear is big house (and even bigger house later), big truck, car, snowmobile, the fight in last night's hockey game, how much I drank on the weekend, etc. And they are materialistic as hell. They are far more concerned with possessions than anything else! And many of their knick knacks get stuffed into boxes that end up in a storage locker or in the garbage dump!

Even weirder is the I-can't-make-it-on-80K-a-year song they sing! The depth of their conversation (other than the "deep" topics above) are their bills.

And many seem to be "as dull as ditchwater."

They are sacrificing any dreams (some don't have any other than money and things) they might have for money. But I know that by the time many are in their 40's, we will be hearing, "If only I had . . . ."

[Black Dog]

Are you by chance a person who also refers to Albertans as a bunch of red necks? Stereo-type much?

Albertans are a bunch of rednecks. To many, being a redneck is a point of pride. So it's a bit hypocritical for a group that defines themselves as rednecks to whine about people calling them rednecks.

I talk to Albertans everyday as I live here and am one and the only thing that comes up is the weather and how bad traffic is getting.

I'm pretty sure people don't literally bring up their paycheque in every conversation (well, maybe Calgarians...) But there's no denying the overt fetishizaton of wealth and conspicuous displays of same are everywhere here.

I'll never forget the story (I know: anecdote is not data) a female friend of mine told me about the guy who tried to pick her up at Overtime (a Edmonton nightclub frequented by the noveau riche bourgeoise) by showing her a photo of his house that he kept in his wallet.

Sounds like the ugle emotion of envy is colouring alot of people's view on the province. There really isn't anythign to be envious about.

I agree. Unless money is the only thing one cares about, there's little reason to envy Alberta.

[jester]

Unless people want to work for low wages I think they should do some research on supply side economics. If there are more jobs than people the wages will be higher, conversly the more people the lower the wages. Rather than complaining people won't go to Alberta and work I would be discouraging everyone I met from coming. Of course the ones bitching could be the owners of businesses so the more, the merrier they will be. At this rate the average wage in Alberta in two years will down to $5.00 an hour because everyone moved there and now can't afford to leave. If you want to keep your high wages and expensive lifestyle stop telling people to jump in the pool or pretty soon you won't have enough water to swim in.........

[JerrySeinfeld]

Unless people want to work for low wages I think they should do some research on supply side economics. If there are more jobs than people the wages will be higher, conversly the more people the lower the wages. Rather than complaining people won't go to Alberta and work I would be discouraging everyone I met from coming. Of course the ones bitching could be the owners of businesses so the more, the merrier they will be. At this rate the average wage in Alberta in two years will down to $5.00 an hour because everyone moved there and now can't afford to leave. If you want to keep your high wages and expensive lifestyle stop telling people to jump in the pool or pretty soon you won't have enough water to swim in.........

It doesn't quite work that way. as the supply curve shifts in increments which means as the price of labour (ie. wages) falls, potential new migrants will have a new economic decision to make. It doesn't happen all at once.

But you're right: over time new supply will mean price (wage) will gradually reach a new (lower) equilibrium. Unless Oil prices go higher, in which case new investment will mean more demand for labour and keep wages high or push them higher.

In the end it'll come down to oil prices, as it always has in Alberta. If oil drop dramatically, look out. If you think Alberta is an ugly place now, you should see it with half finished buildings and roads that just sit for 20 years untouched...