Alberta Jobs

[kimmy]

Although I would never live IN Vancouver

'nuff said.

-k

[Black Dog]

As always, I'm skeptical about the methodology. Did they visit the ski-hills, tourist-traps, and the nude beach, and say "wow, this place rocks!" or did they actually experience the traffic-jams, monsoons, and Indo-Canadian gangs first hand before coming to that conclusion?

Here's one.

Survey methodology

Data was collected largely between September and November 2005 and was updated regularly to take account of changing circumstances. In particular, the assessments will be revised in the case of any new developments. Only 215 cities have been considered in the Quality of Living 2006 rankings.

The overall quality of living ranking is based on an evaluation of 39 criteria. New York has been used as the base score for quality of living, which has a total index equal to 100.

Mercer’s study is based on detailed assessments and evaluations of 39 key quality of living determinants, grouped in the following categories:

* Political and social environment (political stability, crime, law enforcement, etc.)

* Economic environment (currency exchange regulations, banking services, etc.)

* Socio-cultural environment (censorship, limitations on personal freedom, etc.)

* Medical and health considerations (medical supplies and services, infectious diseases, sewage, waste disposal, air pollution, etc.)

* Schools and education (standard and availability of schools, etc.)

* Public services and transportation (electricity, water, public transport, traffic congestion, etc.)

* Recreation (restaurants, theatres, cinemas, sports and leisure, etc.)

* Consumer goods (availability of food/daily consumption items, cars, etc.)

* Housing (housing, household appliances, furniture, maintenance services, etc.)

* Natural environment (climate, record of natural disasters)

[Drea]

Although I would never live IN Vancouver

'nuff said.

-k

I would never live in any big city.

If I can't get to work in under 10 minutes - I move.

If it takes me more time to get across "town" as it does to drive up north to see my dad - I move.

All cities suck in my opinion. Vancouver just sucks the least.

[Live From China]

If one has to spend anywhere from an hour to two hours commuting to work this automatically negates any benefit they gain from where they are living. The stress would just not be worth it! In fact, the stress is probably strong enough to eventually chop years off your life. Or the fatigue of that daily grind could inevitably lead to a fatal accident.

All cities suck in my opinion. Vancouver just sucks the least.

Ah, the-least-of-many-evils theory. You definitely wouldn't like Shanghai

[Slavik44]

My paraphrasing of kimmy's post was intended to show that many Vancouverites are no more outdoor or recreationally oriented than anywhere else. Nor are they any more cultured or urbane (it all fits together). In fact, many are probably not oriented that way at all. And, in a way, whether or not they utilize the "backyard" is relevant. When you spend most of your time driving to work, in front of the TV, at the mall, etc., why is where you live so important? (Of course, I am excluding places like Inuvik or Lower Post). I seem to recall a mind-boggling statistic that said the average Canadian (whatever that is) spends on average 15 minutes per day outside.

Well for starters British Columbia is the most active province in the country. Basically because it is an adventure wonderland. And I will repeat the fact that wether or not people partake in vancovuers many benifiets is irrelavent to the fact that they are there...and being there they are a part of what makes vancouver a great community. Personally I have never had to use B.C's womens hospital...I am after all a guy...but just because I haven't used it and most guys most likely haven't used it, and even a fair amount of girls haven't used it, doesn't mean that it is not a benificial part of the health care system....it is there and it can be used.

Of course, I would rather drive to the mall in the rain than in a blizzard I think a huge part of the attraction of places like Vancouver and Victoria is the weather, and specifically, the winter weather.

The wether certainly is nice

Just think if our ancestors had been afraid of the cold the way many people are today, Canada wouldn't even exist.

Hey its the luxury of choice...we have alot of luxuries today...just because the people of the past didn't have them is no reason not to enjoy them.

If I was still involved climbing and ski touring I would rather live in Jasper, Banff or Squamish, than Vancouver.

Well I would assert that squamish is still very much a part of vancouvers backyard. As well it must also be pointed out that unlike the three more recreation geered community style towns. the GVRD offers a greater variety and number of jobs to interested residents..which is also very important. Vancouver offers the jobs of a big city but the combined recreational oppurtunities of multiple resort towns...often times it offers quick access to such towns themselves.

If one has to spend anywhere from an hour to two hours commuting to work this automatically negates any benefit they gain from where they are living. The stress would just not be worth it! In fact, the stress is probably strong enough to eventually chop years off your life. Or the fatigue of that daily grind could inevitably lead to a fatal accident.

I use public transportation and it usually takes me an hour to get into university and an hour and half to get back home...sometiems the sky train runs into problems...although rarely and that can delay the time. Once it took me 3 and 1/2 hours to get home. But I enjoyed it and enjoy my time going to and from school. Because if you view everyone in the world as an interesting person, or as having some special quality...then the time spent commuting can also be a time of great enjoyment and connection with other vancouverites.

Your whole claim that commute time automatically negates the benifiets is the most absurd thing I have ever heard...using public transit I find the commute to be a part of the benifiet.

[Live From China]

Your whole claim that commute time automatically negates the benifiets is the most absurd thing I have ever heard

Then you haven't thought about or researched the issue very carefully. I was talking about commuting large distances in a private automobile. I have a friend, a published author, who has written several books about the changing world of work. He has been the keynote speaker at several conferences and has been on radio and TV talk shows. One of the areas on which he speaks is the fact that commuting in such a manner is detrimental financially, environmentally, socially and physically. If it wasn't, then urban and regional planners wouldn't waste the time, money and effort trying to "plan around" this problem. Of course, you are doing your part by using public transit. But then it sounds like you aren't coming in from Abbotsford or Chilliwack.

What's absurb or preposterous is trying to use the fact that men won't be using a women's hospital as some sort of an analogy. Hospitals form part of an essential service and are not part of the environmental nature of a place. When you spend virtually all your time inside, the outdoor environment will not be of a huge benefit to you whether you live in Vancouver, or Calgary, or Edmonton. I am, of course, excluding a place like Beijing which is horrendously crowded, noisy and polluted. Canadian cities do not approach this extreme.

...just because the people of the past didn't have them is no reason not to enjoy them.

And most people don't! Speaking only of outdoor recreation here.

[Slavik44]

Then you haven't thought about or researched the issue very carefully. I was talking about commuting large distances in a private automobile. I have a friend, a published author, who has written several books about the changing world of work. He has been the keynote speaker at several conferences and has been on radio and TV talk shows. One of the areas on which he speaks is the fact that commuting in such a manner is detrimental financially, environmentally, socially and physically. If it wasn't, then urban and regional planners wouldn't waste the time, money and effort trying to "plan around" this problem. Of course, you are doing your part by using public transit. But then it sounds like you aren't coming in from Abbotsford or Chilliwack.

You basically told me that because of the commute it is automoatically not worth it to live in Vancouver. I don't find that to be true, I find there to be plenty of things about vancouver that make the commute worth it. Certainly reducing commute times is nice, because then you have more time to enjoy the many wonders of the city, but just because a commute takes an hour doesn't mean that any benifiet of living in the city is AUTOMATICALLY lost.

What's absurb or preposterous is trying to use the fact that men won't be using a women's hospital as some sort of an analogy. Hospitals form part of an essential service and are not part of the environmental nature of a place. When you spend virtually all your time inside, the outdoor environment will not be of a huge benefit to you whether you live in Vancouver, or Calgary, or Edmonton. I am, of course, excluding a place like Beijing which is horrendously crowded, noisy and polluted. Canadian cities do not approach this extreme.

But it is a part of the place. The outside environment is a part of vancouver, so what people do as individuals does not change the fact that it is still there and that it can be enjoyed. I think it is a shame people sit on their ass all day and watch T.V as well. But just because people watch T.V doesn't mean there is not an outside environment.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Yea.

Really.

Sucks.

I hate it here.

[White Doors]

Yea.

Really.

Sucks.

I hate it here.

Hawaii?

How are the conversations at the bar stool Jerry?

Think that's why you have to come to a web forum to vent?

Think about it

[Live From China]

Almost as beautiful as Sanya, Hainan Island, China or Jasper National Park.

I would have thought that with such beautiful scenery you would like Vancouver. Why do hate it so much, Jerry? Traffic, not a millionaire, etc.?

[August1991]

Has anyone actually seen the suburbs of Calgary and Edmonton? They are BUTT ugly.

From personal observation, this descriptions sounds remarkably similar to suburbs of Ottawa and Vancouver that I've seen as well. I spent the holidays in the Okanagan, and noticed that Kamloops and Kelowna now also have equally crappy-looking suburbs popping up around them.

...

Some westerners have the notion that people "back east" are somehow more cultured or sophisticated or erudite than themselves; I've taken to thinking of this as "I Miss Trudeau Syndrome." One walks down the street in Edmonton and sees all the tradesmen with mullets and jean-jackets, and one thinks "this city is full of the most uneducated, unsophisticated people on earth," and assumes that if they were in a cosmopolitan city like Toronto or Vancouver, they'd be surrounded by cultured and urbane people like themselves. But they'd be mistaken. I've lived in Ottawa and Vancouver and Victoria as well as in Edmonton, and I've seen nothing to support the theory that folks in these places are more cultured or sophisticated or urbane than in Edmonton.

Go to the opera or a jazz club in Toronto, and you'll find the same sort of person you find at the opera or a jazz-club in Edmonton: somebody whose tastes are far outside the mainstream of that city's population, and hardly representative of the populace at large.

Go to a museum or an art gallery in Ottawa, and you know who you'll meet? Tourists.

I visited the Museum of Civilization and the National Art Gallery and the House of Parliament when I lived there. They're certainly spectacular things to visit, and I recommend them highly. But if I wanted to find my classmates on the weekend, I'd go to the food court at the shopping mall.

...

The slam against Alberta's climate is another one that I don't understand. Ottawa has by far the shittiest climate I've encountered. Rain, snow, sleet, freezing and thawing all winter. Shitty humidity in the summer, turning even a warm day into an intolerable, sweaty, gross sauna. It's just disgusting. I'm far happier with the occassionally uncomfortable cold in Edmonton than I was with the year-round sickening humidity in Ottawa.

I've been thinking about this thread for a day or two and fortified with some red wine, I want to respond to Kimmy's post.

My first reaction is: you can make alot of money in Alberta but then, you have to live there (and pay housing prices there too).

I have lived in Ottawa and Toronto (and Edmonton). Ottawa is a disaster as a city (I agree entirely with your comments about its weather) and in the year or so I lived there, I spent all but one or two weekends elsewhere, usually in Montreal. I'll agree that Edmonton is better than Ottawa, but that's not saying much.

Toronto? Toronto is the ultimate money city in Canada. People talk mortgages, interest rates and from a Montreal perspective, they commit the cardinal sin of talking money at lunch. Torontonians spend alot of money on clothes but dress badly. Their restaurants are all designed to give you the impression you're not in Toronto - but you're spending alot of money to feel that!

When it comes right down to it - Toronto thinks its New York's Mini-Me. It's not. But Torontonians are provincial people good with money. That was true before when it was Protestant and it's still true now, with all the immigrants.

I drove through Calgary, didn't like it, and chose Edmonton. Returning later to both, I didn't change my opinion. The U of A campus is nice, and the Parliament Buildings are impressive. (I liked the yellow lights. At night, it's cool if you stare at them and then look at the city.) Calgary is devoid of any charm but Edmonton at least has the pretention.

The very first time I discussed this was in a campsite in Jasper. In the rain, I shared a picnic table under a shelter with an elderly German couple, classical musicians, who had lived in Edmonton for years. The man defended Edmonton but the woman admitted it was a "hicktown". I have to agree. I used to laugh at the numerous car accidents in Edmonton: Visiting farmers and young hot rod drivers. The inevitable occurs. Edmontonians, both male and female, were astonished to learn that I didn't know what a carburetor was.

Nevertheless, you'll be happy to learn that over the Christmas holidays I met some European friends and I urged them (for their children) to move to Alberta.

To me, the most striking thing about Edmonton was its equality. Edmonton has no poor side of town, and no rich side. Everyone in Edmonton is middle-class. It's a great place for young immigrants who want to start a family. Neighbours will show up when a new family moves in, knock on the door and start talking about nonsense. Who can object?

Vancouver is physically the most beautiful city in Canada but the first time I was there, it rained without stop for 48 hours. Quebec City is simply the most beautiful city in Canada and while most Montrealais find it boring, I have always found it a welcome mistress, tolerant of indiscretions.

As to Montreal, it is the only city in Canada that can lay any claim to sophistication. Unfortunately, like most cities, the claim comes at the price of dishonesty. Montreal is a complex city that slices in several ways. Jerusalem is another divided city.

Kimmy, before you think that I am denigrating Alberta, or your beloved Edmonton, please understand that I find Montreal and Toronto small compared to London and Moscow, and Beirut far more interesting. It's all relative.

I'll never forget the story (I know: anecdote is not data) a female friend of mine told me about the guy who tried to pick her up at Overtime (a Edmonton nightclub frequented by the noveau riche bourgeoise) by showing her a photo of his house that he kept in his wallet.

That's hilarious! But you're surely not under the impression that men attempting to use absurdly ostentatious displays of wealth or status to attract women is unique to Alberta?!

Good anecdote. It's reassuring to know that such anecdotes apply around the world, although I like the simply clarity of Albertans. I recall overhearing two women in a Paris nightclub discussing a man's credit card. One explained that a black card meant that there was no limit.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Yea.

Really.

Sucks.

I hate it here.

Hawaii?

How are the conversations at the bar stool Jerry?

Think that's why you have to come to a web forum to vent?

Think about it

Huh? They're all pics of Vancouver, man.

[White Doors]

It was a joke with a point. If you like that aspect so much, would you not like Honolulu even more?

[Live From China]

Huh? They're all pics of Vancouver, man.

Duh!

[Chuck U. Farlie]

Sorry to come back to this, but are you sure that some of you Albertans are not being overly optimistic about the wages that some jobs get there?

I just went to the Canada Job Bank... plugged in Alberta for all areas all jobs, and here is the top of the list I just got... they all seem very ordinary or less than ordinary to me - very comparable, and in some cases less than what you would get in Toronto. (these are sorted based on how recent they are, not by income, occupation, or anything else.)

http://jobbank.gc.ca/JobResult_en.aspx?Pro...ment&Student=No

2576858 Short-order cook

$7.67 to $9.05/ Hourly, 32 hours Edmonton North, AB 2007/01/17

2576672 Delivery truck driver

$16 to $18/ Hourly, 40 hours, Bonus, Other Benefits Calgary, AB 2007/01/17

2575755 Customer service representative

$8.5 to $10.5/ Hourly, 20 hours, Other Benefits Calgary South West, AB 2007/01/17

2576589 Produce manager - retail

$3000 to $4000/ Monthly, 40 hours Jasper, AB 2007/01/17

2576370 Field and vegetable crop labourer

$8.47/ Hourly for 48 hours Fairview, AB 2007/01/17

2577020 Short-order cook

$7.67 to $9.05/ Hourly, 13.5 hours Edmonton North, AB 2007/01/17

2576094 Baker

$13 to $15/ Hourly, 70 hours Area surrounding the City of Edmonton, AB 2007/01/16

2564511 Delivery truck driver

$10 to $15/ Hourly, 40 hours, Other Benefits Edmonton area, AB 2007/01/16

2572117 Meat cutter - retail or wholesale

$16/ Hourly for 40 hours Edmonton, AB 2007/01/16

2574465 Shipper-receiver

$13 to $16/ Hourly, 40 hours Calgary South East, AB 2007/01/16

2573651 Carpenter

$15 to $25/ Hourly, 37.5 hours EDMONTON AND AREA, AB 2007/01/16

2574372 Production helper

$12.25/ Hourly for 40 hours Calgary South East, AB 2007/01/16

2576058 Administrative officer

$21.58/ Hourly for 40 hours Edmonton South, AB 2007/01/16

[JerrySeinfeld]

Sorry to come back to this, but are you sure that some of you Albertans are not being overly optimistic about the wages that some jobs get there?

I just went to the Canada Job Bank... plugged in Alberta for all areas all jobs, and here is the top of the list I just got... they all seem very ordinary or less than ordinary to me - very comparable, and in some cases less than what you would get in Toronto. (these are sorted based on how recent they are, not by income, occupation, or anything else.)

http://jobbank.gc.ca/JobResult_en.aspx?Pro...ment&Student=No

2576858 Short-order cook

$7.67 to $9.05/ Hourly, 32 hours Edmonton North, AB 2007/01/17

2576672 Delivery truck driver

$16 to $18/ Hourly, 40 hours, Bonus, Other Benefits Calgary, AB 2007/01/17

2575755 Customer service representative

$8.5 to $10.5/ Hourly, 20 hours, Other Benefits Calgary South West, AB 2007/01/17

2576589 Produce manager - retail

$3000 to $4000/ Monthly, 40 hours Jasper, AB 2007/01/17

2576370 Field and vegetable crop labourer

$8.47/ Hourly for 48 hours Fairview, AB 2007/01/17

2577020 Short-order cook

$7.67 to $9.05/ Hourly, 13.5 hours Edmonton North, AB 2007/01/17

2576094 Baker

$13 to $15/ Hourly, 70 hours Area surrounding the City of Edmonton, AB 2007/01/16

2564511 Delivery truck driver

$10 to $15/ Hourly, 40 hours, Other Benefits Edmonton area, AB 2007/01/16

2572117 Meat cutter - retail or wholesale

$16/ Hourly for 40 hours Edmonton, AB 2007/01/16

2574465 Shipper-receiver

$13 to $16/ Hourly, 40 hours Calgary South East, AB 2007/01/16

2573651 Carpenter

$15 to $25/ Hourly, 37.5 hours EDMONTON AND AREA, AB 2007/01/16

2574372 Production helper

$12.25/ Hourly for 40 hours Calgary South East, AB 2007/01/16

2576058 Administrative officer

$21.58/ Hourly for 40 hours Edmonton South, AB 2007/01/16

hahahahaha - that post is the buzzer-beater. GAME OVER. sums it all up quite nicely.

[kimmy]

hahahahaha - that post is the buzzer-beater. GAME OVER. sums it all up quite nicely.

huh? What the hell are you talking about?

That's in no way representative of the job market. The fact that somebody posts a request for a short-order cook at $7-9/hr on the Employment Canada job bank doesn't mean they're actually going to find one.

I said it earlier, and it's still true: every restaurant and fast-food joint and gas-station, and most retailers, have a permanent "help wanted" sign out front, and all of them are offering $10/hr or more.

That might not be very exciting news for somebody outside the province considering coming here, but it's terrific news for highschool kids looking to make a few extra dollars, and it's terrible news for whoever it is that's hoping to land a short-order cook at $8.

If you dropped any english-speaking person with vision, hearing, and no physical handicap off anywhere along Gateway Blvd, they would be earning at least $10/hr within a few hours.

Of course, these are all retail and service jobs we're looking at, and the real hype about Alberta's job market isn't about retail and service, it's about labour and trades. Especially in remote areas.

I heard yesterday from a relative who says that the Tolko lumber mill in High Level is offering over $25/hr plus benefits even for entry level positions. (the downside, of course, is that you'd have to live in High Level.) That's for somebody with no skills, just two hands, two feet, and the ability to understand english. If you have the right skills-- electrician, millwright, instrumentation, welding-- you can make a mint, especially if you're willing to live in places like Fort McMisery or High Level.

-k

[fellowtraveller]

I said it earlier, and it's still true: every restaurant and fast-food joint and gas-station, and most retailers, have a permanent "help wanted" sign out front, and all of them are offering $10/hr or more.

I can confirm that this is absolutely true.

If you are capable of metabolzing, you're hired.

There are several fast food joints in my community near Edmonton that are fully or partly closed due to lack of staff. Burger King (nearly new) is closed, KFC severely restricted, one A&W restricted hours, and so on.

Thses businesses also suffer because they operate on volume and smallish margins. Labour costs are a significant component. When you have to pay everybody at least $10,50 instead of $7.25, you still have to offer that gutbusting combo meal for $3.99 plus GST. Tough times for some.....

[JerrySeinfeld]

I said it earlier, and it's still true: every restaurant and fast-food joint and gas-station, and most retailers, have a permanent "help wanted" sign out front, and all of them are offering $10/hr or more.

I can confirm that this is absolutely true.

If you are capable of metabolzing, you're hired.

There are several fast food joints in my community near Edmonton that are fully or partly closed due to lack of staff. Burger King (nearly new) is closed, KFC severely restricted, one A&W restricted hours, and so on.

Thses businesses also suffer because they operate on volume and smallish margins. Labour costs are a significant component. When you have to pay everybody at least $10,50 instead of $7.25, you still have to offer that gutbusting combo meal for $3.99 plus GST. Tough times for some.....

That's what I've been saying all along. If you're less than skilled, or want to earn an extra $20k per year as a tradesman and live in a shithole, Alberta is the place for you.

[Live From China]

Interesting about the wages. What I see is a huge range! I do not think that $18/h is very good for a truck driver (although I must ask what type of trucking we are talking about), and $21/h or $42K/a for an administrative officer just sucks (of course, what is meant by AO?).

I think many people are getting the impression that the streets in AB are "paved with gold."

As for this:

If you are capable of metabolzing, you're hired.

I am sensing (as posted earlier) we are getting many young people (some thicker than planks) getting paid far more than they're worth. They are in for a rude shock when the booms die and they find out what they are truly worth!

[Chuck U. Farlie]

So where are these high paying jobs advertised? Or aren't they being advertised online?

I've been checking out the Canada Job Bank and Workopolis but have yet to find anything being advertised that pays very well.

[guyser]

So where are these high paying jobs advertised? Or aren't they being advertised online?

I've been checking out the Canada Job Bank and Workopolis but have yet to find anything being advertised that pays very well.

Someone should have informed you that the best jobs are never advertised . First rule of working my dad taught me.

Call around , do drop offs, ask friends,ask parents friends..network your talents and strengths.

[geoffrey]

I am sensing (as posted earlier) we are getting many young people (some thicker than planks) getting paid far more than they're worth. They are in for a rude shock when the booms die and they find out what they are truly worth!

I'm riding that wave myself, and I'm not naive about it. This money isn't here forever. But unlike most Canadians, I'm willing to move wherever I get paid the most. When the boom is over in Alberta, I'll surely either be out of the country to somewhere a little more modern and friendly in taxation (likely where business is booming) or to another area of Canada that is doing well.

Save up those dollars. Some people are greatly overextending themselves and that's the trouble. These people are like you said in for a rude awakening.

[Black Dog]

Save up those dollars. Some people are greatly overextending themselves and that's the trouble. These people are like you said in for a rude awakening.

You mean man cannot live on jacked up 4x4's alone?

[geoffrey]

Save up those dollars. Some people are greatly overextending themselves and that's the trouble. These people are like you said in for a rude awakening.

You mean man cannot live on jacked up 4x4's alone?

That's a very unaccurate sterotype, maybe in your neck of the woods. The BMW's and Benz's are becoming more apparent in Calgary, we're slowly leaving our pickup truck obsession.