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Jesus Camp


bradco

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Watched the documentary "Jesus Camp" tonight. I found it quite frightening and concerning for anyone who believes in: separation of church and state, science, freedom and equality for all, democracy over theocracy, peace, and the protection of children.

The show covers a camp run by fundamentalist christians in the US. The extent of the brainwashing/mental warfair on the children is unbelievable. At times the preaching was borderline...almost inciting hatred. Some of the kids scared the crap out of me to be honest!

trailer for the documentary can be seen here:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=y_EKHK1C2IE

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Is it out on video, really wanted to see this movie.

I've gone to "Christian camp" when I was in elementary and junior high, but it was nothing like what was shown in the trailer. Depends largely on the church and the people running it. For the most part I think the religious right is a kooky bunch, and in all honesty I think Jesus would be more concerned about the fight against AID and poverty instead of gay marriage and Harry Potter!!!

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The extent of the brainwashing/mental warfair on the children is unbelievable. At times the preaching was borderline...almost inciting hatred. Some of the kids scared the crap out of me to be honest!

Unbelievable?

How about a camp that teaches kids about killing others by strapping bombs on themselves and committing suicide. All for the good of God.

And you worry about Jesus kids?

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Woo-hoo. A great example of the kind of "western values" that Leafless is always talking about.

"Hi. um, God's just telling me that you're on his mind, and he just wants to take you and love on you and he has special plans for you and your life. He just wants you to follow him with your whole heart."

:ph34r:

It's a good reminder that not all religious fanatics wear beards and pyjamas and funny hats. These particular ones are less likely to blow stuff up, but probably more likely to change western governments in ways that rational people won't appreciate.

-k

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Huh, what's so provocative about the girl with the bowling ball? She feels like God tells her to say something to someone else. So she does. What's so scary about that? That WAS a bowling ball and not a bomb, wasn't it?

So perhaps you could point out the fanaticism...

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Here you go...

Christian Fascism

The air is invisible but the signs are everywhere.

Some say we live in the Age of Apocalypse, of the unveiling, the time of the disclosing of secrets, of the plan for the destiny, the Final Solution, of the world.

Some see the potentials for destruction as signs of the "last things" or end of things, and celebrate them as a sign that the messiah draws near. For them, their faith is confirmed, and an Earth ruled by the agency of Evil is soon to meet its doom in a struggle for power of cosmic dimension.

Figures like mega-church evangelist John Hagee, who some have dubbed Pastor Strangelove, believe a nuclear attack by the US against Iran would set off a battle of Armageddon in the Middle East; he and his allies are literally pushing the Bush administration to attack for that reason.

They are, in a word, mad – but the biblical method that guides them is the baseline logic of western civilization, a logic that they've embraced, like a David Koresh or an Adolph Hitler, with the grip of death.

Whoo hoo! Jesus is comin' back and the whole world will be destroyed! Whoo hoo!

The Christian Death Cult is alive and well and scary as hell!

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As I'm on dial up, I couldn't watch the clip.

If I wasn't so cheap, I'd upgrade to highspeed :lol:

There are nutbars out there that think we are living in the "end times". No need to take care of the earth 'cause Jesus is comin' to do a whole "planet makeover".

And only the good Godfearin' Christian folk will inherit the earth!

Teaching our children that they have no future (ie God is coming to destroy the earth) is terrible. I would never, never tell my son he doesn't have a future (even if I believed this endtimes claptrap).

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Huh, what's so provocative about the girl with the bowling ball? She feels like God tells her to say something to someone else. So she does. What's so scary about that? That WAS a bowling ball and not a bomb, wasn't it?

So perhaps you could point out the fanaticism...

I actually found it amusing that she was praying for a strike. What I found a lot less amusing was that they've got this little girl trained to go up to complete strangers and start proselytizing. I found that to be fanatical and a little creepy.

But the more troubling fanaticism was what I saw in the trailer which the original post linked to. Did you watch it? Do you disagree that it's religious fanaticism?

-kids chanting and screaming and pumping their fists in the air with tears running down their faces?

-convulsions?

-"there's only two kinds of people in this world. People who love Jeeezus, and people who don't."

-"how many of you would give up your lives for Jeeezus?"

-"we're being trained to be God's army!"

-"This means war! This means war! Are you a part of it or not?"

-they've even got their own flag that they swear allegiance to.

Aside from which particular prophet they're fanatical about, it strikes me as being a whole lot like the "pyjamas and funny hats" guys. As I said before, these particular kooks will use ballots rather than bombs to fight their war, but they're still fanatics.

-k

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As I'm on dial up, I couldn't watch the clip.

If I wasn't so cheap, I'd upgrade to highspeed :lol:

There are nutbars out there that think we are living in the "end times". No need to take care of the earth 'cause Jesus is comin' to do a whole "planet makeover".

And only the good Godfearin' Christian folk will inherit the earth!

Teaching our children that they have no future (ie God is coming to destroy the earth) is terrible. I would never, never tell my son he doesn't have a future (even if I believed this endtimes claptrap).

While Christians do believe in end times I have never heard any preachers talking about speeding it up and blowing something up to initiate armageddon. I think maybe these examples are a few wing-nuts. Christianity teaches that no one knows the day or the hour when the end will come. It does not teach not having a future. I think there may be those who corrupt this teaching but they are wing-nuts, not the general God-fearing Christian population.

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The extent of the brainwashing/mental warfair on the children is unbelievable. At times the preaching was borderline...almost inciting hatred. Some of the kids scared the crap out of me to be honest!

Unbelievable?

How about a camp that teaches kids about killing others by strapping bombs on themselves and committing suicide. All for the good of God.

And you worry about Jesus kids?

the point is not severity i'm guessing, and does a kid of god not grow to teach more kids of god to do the same? we past our radical period long ago, are you then implying that no Christian /catholic /Hebrew based faith is radical, at all?!

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As I'm on dial up, I couldn't watch the clip.

If I wasn't so cheap, I'd upgrade to highspeed :lol:

There are nutbars out there that think we are living in the "end times". No need to take care of the earth 'cause Jesus is comin' to do a whole "planet makeover".

And only the good Godfearin' Christian folk will inherit the earth!

Teaching our children that they have no future (ie God is coming to destroy the earth) is terrible. I would never, never tell my son he doesn't have a future (even if I believed this endtimes claptrap).

While Christians do believe in end times I have never heard any preachers talking about speeding it up and blowing something up to initiate armageddon. I think maybe these examples are a few wing-nuts. Christianity teaches that no one knows the day or the hour when the end will come. It does not teach not having a future. I think there may be those who corrupt this teaching but they are wing-nuts, not the general God-fearing Christian population.

yes but it still leaves fear open to hope turning to hopelessness, it is a 'slave-morality' and i beleive we should be tought all faiths and theorys and choose for ourselves at a more mature time in our lives, not have it 'programmed' or bred into us, i think it is like brainwashing, but on a lesser extent, the qeustion is then, is brain washing right?

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Huh, what's so provocative about the girl with the bowling ball? She feels like God tells her to say something to someone else. So she does. What's so scary about that? That WAS a bowling ball and not a bomb, wasn't it?

So perhaps you could point out the fanaticism...

the blind often ask for gifts, and no miracle happens but is proclaimed as such, so a bad bowler then bowls blind so is better, she would ask god for a place in heaven after a murder if she was convinced she would have one, that is radical, the promise of after-life so she has negligence or extremism in this one... get it?

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I'm against all religious extremism. I was born and raised with a christian background, however learned early on to question my faith and several of the positions that the leadership holds. I think the fact these kids are getting political is what worries me, the fact that politics might be centered around people like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell. The only people that damage christian's reputation's are the christian's themselves. Not the media, not liberals, not music, etc. If christian's started to follow what Jesus actually said then they wouldn't be getting such a bad rep.

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I agree with Canadian Blue. But I don't see anything wrong with the movie. What kind of hypocrite would you have to be to judge this movie or what these people are doing? They are Zealous, take joy in their faith, and with the people around them. How can someone be brainwashed with what they already believe is true? Can a man be brainwashed into believing that he needs to breathe to live?

And who are you to say what is good, and what is right? Doesn't Jesus himself teach about the Zealous without knowledge? They have the Zeal but no knowledge, so their faith is worthless. Jesus says he is truth, so those who are following his teachings, have the knowledge and their Zeal is justified.

When in doubt of yours or others actions, judge it according to the honor of God. Aren't they honoring God by giving him the glory that is his? According to their own Bible, there is nothing to judge of them.

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Well, my problem is when young christian's are basically taught to practice blind faith. I don't think its productive, and in all honesty they should learn how to be critical in their thinking, even in terms of religion. Even in the christian community the United Church have different beliefs then the Baptists.

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My problem is when the religious right assumes that religious freedom means the right to impose their beliefs on others.

While I disagree with forcing ideas on children, I can't tell parents not to teach their children their beliefs (as long as they aren't harmful). But to force your beliefs on adults of other faiths or force other people's children to learn nonsense in school is far beyond what I would consider acceptable. The religious can live their lives any way they want but they have no business in other people's bedrooms or telling my kids in school that god made people out of clay.

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I agree with Canadian Blue. But I don't see anything wrong with the movie. What kind of hypocrite would you have to be to judge this movie or what these people are doing? They are Zealous, take joy in their faith, and with the people around them. How can someone be brainwashed with what they already believe is true? Can a man be brainwashed into believing that he needs to breathe to live?

And who are you to say what is good, and what is right? Doesn't Jesus himself teach about the Zealous without knowledge? They have the Zeal but no knowledge, so their faith is worthless. Jesus says he is truth, so those who are following his teachings, have the knowledge and their Zeal is justified.

When in doubt of yours or others actions, judge it according to the honor of God. Aren't they honoring God by giving him the glory that is his? According to their own Bible, there is nothing to judge of them.

HA! Get ready for a long one, for I wish to speak loudly!!!

Pay no mind to my words, madness they are! Angry from their hysterics, so now I am hysterical!

Judge? I am no judge! I see no criminal! I see children and god above them, but the men and women of god then telling them, I see no god saying he is so. Your ancestors made this god, I can make a god, give it years and he will be so, an image of man. as in your bible he says man was made in his image, as well with god, that he was made in our image, look at man and observe, god must be hungry, famished even, and like a child, wanting to forget himself, warring inside, disagreeing with himself, confused, wondering and stepping up morals over all! But I see these morals and disagree, that I am to go to hell, I disagree that I should put a god that is an image of man on a golden mantle, for then we are worshiping ourselves! Selfish is that which we have pride in, that culture we cling to, even breed into children who just woke to this world! I have no faith but hope! Faith is blind, they are taught this if then extreme, are they then posing their faith in front of cameras? I speak outside this belief, I am godless and this is my opinion, pay no regard, please, disagree even! That would help me! But do not shove god into my mind, I listen to no saint, it is selfish too, for in any event that a man may be weak in his hopes, he is then strong in his faith. Judge it is a lie? No, find in reality a new truth, a new hope. Are you then judging mine to be a lie? In another post I asked contently, who people follow, men or gods, who do you love more? I love all things, even the bad for it is my fault that they come to me, and I myself can have joy in my shame, that I am not to do harm so do not have to be forgiven. So I love man more, and will grow with man the highest, most common moral. A new member said 'common sense.'

He may not have meant what I do, but for the sake of man! Be tired of happiness and use it! Not that their is no god but that their is no god we have met! Your god speaks so he is a man! Show me please what in your god is in this mind, is it the devil then? I’ve seen this devil, and he is the only criminal I see, but he is not past these walls or under my feet. He is here in our mind. Is that me of which you just called a hypocrite?

Zealot, that is what they are indeed, but from a child to now, how cruel. And you have to breathe or you will die! Oh no that does not mean I will tell them to breath, please, don't breathe! You will learn then that you WILL die if you don't breathe, and once they start it is because they must! Your god is not air, I do not need him! I have joy in holding my breath, and in each gasp you take do you not kill you god? Now I disagree with myself, you are right! They must be happy! It is the only thing that we live for, so let them! But take care that the men that all say 'god' do not exist! Or the trappers will come, and then you will surely have to hide me!!

to teach them so young is wrong because they are 'programmed' so to speak, our code is words and they process them in and identify broadly what in turn is the meaning, they then speak, and at an age then take in words around them, processing them, you see a child does not know a lie from truth, and a 'my truth' does not matter, so if taught from such a young age they will believe anything! even the 'my truth.' it should be that a child is taught the morals, not the religion, and at a time in their life then chooses, they deserve to be independent, for your organized groups of believers pays the church bill, not your faith. If you believe it is so, and believe your children should believe it is so, then prove it. If you can prove it, then it is so. Be sure never to lead children blindly.

even now I am sorry for my outburst, but I am a man of ravings, call it mad but this is the way I have chosen to speak, it is my deepest intent to let you feel as I do in my words, but still be proud, my point is that gods do not control bowling balls. (Why didn't I say that in the first place?)

but i would agree, unfortunatly i see this as a trick, for my knoledge has taught me that god is made by man. and zeal is never justified, it is a feeling that should come and go, but zeal wants to be happy forever, and never feel anything else. so they beleive.

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I've had strangers knocking on my door, handing me leaflets (Jehovah's Witness). It could be annoying and an inconvenience for some to be bothered answering the door...however, for some of the comments I've read from that link ("I would slap her face, etc...)...I think those reactions or statements are way too extreme when a polite "no, thanks." would've sufficed.

Again, I can't help but compare the reactions of those who would bash and criticise the girl (and her "trainers") for just giving what you might say is a "sales pitch", which is quite harmless really (even if you think it is fanatism)...

...But, I've yet to hear some of you who had openly ridiculed and openly criticized this girl with contempt, do the same thing to those religious fanatics who strap bombs on themselves and blow up innocent people.

Can you please explain why your reactions towards this girl is different from those fanatics who deliberately kill?

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I've had strangers knocking on my door, handing me leaflets (Jehovah's Witness). It could be annoying and an inconvenience for some to be bothered answering the door...however, for some of the comments I've read from that link ("I would slap her face, etc...)...I think those reactions or statements are way too extreme when a polite "no, thanks." would've sufficed.

Again, I can't help but compare the reactions of those who would bash and criticise the girl (and her "trainers") for just giving what you might say is a "sales pitch", which is quite harmless really (even if you think it is fanatism)...

...But, I've yet to hear some of you who had openly ridiculed and openly criticized this girl with contempt, do the same thing to those religious fanatics who strap bombs on themselves and blow up innocent people.

Can you please explain why your reactions towards this girl is different from those fanatics who deliberately kill?

Thats true. Proselytizing is annoying for alot of people no matter what the religion is. But nonetheless this is not forcing beliefs on people. Its just promoting them. Would you say campaign ads are forcing political ideas on people.

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I've had strangers knocking on my door, handing me leaflets (Jehovah's Witness). It could be annoying and an inconvenience for some to be bothered answering the door...however, for some of the comments I've read from that link ("I would slap her face, etc...)...I think those reactions or statements are way too extreme when a polite "no, thanks." would've sufficed.

Again, I can't help but compare the reactions of those who would bash and criticise the girl (and her "trainers") for just giving what you might say is a "sales pitch", which is quite harmless really (even if you think it is fanatism)...

...But, I've yet to hear some of you who had openly ridiculed and openly criticized this girl with contempt, do the same thing to those religious fanatics who strap bombs on themselves and blow up innocent people.

Can you please explain why your reactions towards this girl is different from those fanatics who deliberately kill?

Thats true. Proselytizing is annoying for alot of people no matter what the religion is. But nonetheless this is not forcing beliefs on people. Its just promoting them. Would you say campaign ads are forcing political ideas on people.

Or those commercial ads! :lol:

I wonder how many among those who'd railed against "brainwashing"...or "programming" children will max their credit cards this year buying the latest craze demanded by their children....because they were advertised on tv!

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and i beleive we should be tought all faiths and theorys and choose for ourselves at a more mature time in our lives, not have it 'programmed' or bred into us, i think it is like brainwashing, but on a lesser extent, the qeustion is then, is brain washing right?

I know a man who tried to study different religions because he is "looking for the truth." He was a confused Christian...that his faith was on rocky grounds is probably an understatement. he read different books on different religions, and different theories by atheists. The last I heard of him, he was seeing a psychologist.

I, myself, do not fully understand my own religion. I guess you could say it had been "programmed" or "bred" into me. I have no problem with it...I'm happy with it.

But then again, I know a lot of kids who go to McDonald's...because their parents take them to McDonald's....because their grandparents had taken their parents to McDonald's. So a lifestyle is bred into them. Their taste for a kind of life had been "programmed"...it's like brainwashing, but on a lesser extent.

Was that right?

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