Jesus Camp

[DogOnPorch]

I'm not a Christian.

[WIP]

Why not, many here have made blanket statements about Islam.

It seems here that fear and loathing of something foreign is a unifying force that binds fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist new atheists!

[DogOnPorch]

It seems here that fear and loathing of something foreign is a unifying force that binds fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist new atheists!

What is Charnia?

[bloodyminded]

That's true, but doesn't change the fact that there is a problem with extremism in Islam that is systemic.

I agree. Their share of religious crazies is out of proportion.

But the violence is a mixture of religion and politics.

Our worse violence--up to and including terrorism--tends on the whole to leave religion out of the equation. The victims largely don't care about the distinction.

Edited March 5, 2011 by bloodyminded

[WIP]

What is Charnia?

Charnia is the genus name given to a frond-like Ediacaran lifeform with segmented ridges branching alternately to the right and left from a zig-zag medial suture. The genus Charnia was named after Charnwood Forest in Leicestershire, England, where the first specimen was found.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charnia

Next question!

[DogOnPorch]

I'm reassured that you understand that we humans evolved from Charnia.

[GostHacked]

I'm reassured that you understand that we humans evolved from Charnia.

So him answering your rhetorical troll question allows you to conclude that he believes we evolved from that species?

Nice try.

[DogOnPorch]

So him answering your rhetorical troll question allows you to conclude that he believes we evolved from that species?

Nice try.

We did evolve from Charnia, though.

[cybercoma]

I agree. Their share of religious crazies is out of proportion.

But the violence is a mixture of religion and politics.

Our worse violence--up to and including terrorism--tends on the whole to leave religion out of the equation. The victims largely don't care about the distinction.

That is indeed one of the large parts of the systemic problem: a mixture of religion and politics. They're inseparable in some parts of the world. So it stands to reason that religious extremism will necessarily be tied to political extremism.

[bloodyminded]

That is indeed one of the large parts of the systemic problem: a mixture of religion and politics. They're inseparable in some parts of the world. So it stands to reason that religious extremism will necessarily be tied to political extremism.

Absolutely. I keep hoping that wiser heads than my own will determine policies that defeat terrorism, rather than exacerbate it. Killing a bunch of children gathering wood, supporting corrupt leaders and tyrants over secular democrats, and so on. Doesn't seem to be working, predictably enough. On the upside, it appears that a lot of extremists have fallen out of favour with their would-be recruitment population.

[WIP]

That is indeed one of the large parts of the systemic problem: a mixture of religion and politics. They're inseparable in some parts of the world. So it stands to reason that religious extremism will necessarily be tied to political extremism.

The example of Nigeria that I mentioned demonstrates the errors of trying to make blanket descriptions of "religion." Why would Muslims and Christians in one part of Nigeria be able to live together peacefully and even intermarry, while further north the neighbourhoods are divided between Christian and Muslim, and there are steady, constant attacks and violence carried out? It seems obvious that a deeper understanding of the underlying issues is needed, and what seems apparent is that even the people themselves prefer to describe their difference as religious in nature, rather than racial or tribal. The area of Nigeria where the religious wars are going on is also where religious adherence divided tribes, so although religious differences may provide kindling to throw on the fire, the underlying differences are still going to be there even if they all were forced to adopt the same religion.

And, as is often pointed out on secular and atheist websites, religious adherence and devotion strongly correlates with poverty and limited political institutions. People who are living in misery are not going to want to hear that 'this life is all there is, so make the best of it!', and without a church or a mosque to provide social services, there are no places to turn to if family members are unable or unwilling to help. Religion is going to be along for the ride, and any efforts to advance secularism will depend on improving quality of life and expanding government services (yes conservatives...bigger government!) rather than making demands that religious institutions take a back seat.