Elton John denounces organized religion

[theloniusfleabag]

I hate starting a new thread when so many exist about religion, but...

http://start.shaw.ca/start/enCA/Entertainm...rc=e111113A.xml

"From my point of view, I would ban religion completely. Organized religion doesn't seem to work. It turns people into really hateful lemmings and it's not really compassionate."

I would say many people feel this way. However, 'banning religion' will never work. Just as 'banning homosexuality' wouldn't work. I'd rather see an all out debate about 'Which is the one true god?" (Or scripture...and the evidence for or against the existence of god, and 'truthfulness' of all religious texts, to be put to a worldwide trial)

[sharkman]

I hate starting a new thread when so many exist about religion, but...

http://start.shaw.ca/start/enCA/Entertainm...rc=e111113A.xml

"From my point of view, I would ban religion completely. Organized religion doesn't seem to work. It turns people into really hateful lemmings and it's not really compassionate."

I would say many people feel this way. However, 'banning religion' will never work. Just as 'banning homosexuality' wouldn't work. I'd rather see an all out debate about 'Which is the one true god?" (Or scripture...and the evidence for or against the existence of god, and 'truthfulness' of all religious texts, to be put to a worldwide trial)

And many people also feel religion is very benefical and gives them the strength to be forgiving. As a christian, I feel the gay lifestyle is wrong. However, I am not a 'hateful' lemming nor do I hate gays, which is the pet stereotype usually trotted out on this topic. For Elton to lash out at religions, it only shows his prejudices.

[ft.niagara]

"From my point of view, I would ban religion completely. Organized religion doesn't seem to work. It turns people into really hateful lemmings and it's not really compassionate."

I would say many people feel this way. However, 'banning religion' will never work. Just as 'banning homosexuality' wouldn't work. I'd rather see an all out debate about 'Which is the one true god?" (Or scripture...and the evidence for or against the existence of god, and 'truthfulness' of all religious texts, to be put to a worldwide trial)

Instead of debating God, why not debate homosexuality, historically, emotionally, is it a disease or a consition or is it just a liftstyle, its place (function) in society.

Personally, I see homosexuality somewhat like I see celibacy: a chosen sexual lifestyle. It does not serve the societal purpose of procreation, but celibacy does not either.

[gerryhatrick]

Personally, I see homosexuality somewhat like I see celibacy: a chosen sexual lifestyle. It does not serve the societal purpose of procreation, but celibacy does not either.

That is the kookiest thing I've heard in a very long time.

Can I ask, are you a heterosexual?

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear ft.niagara,

I see homosexuality somewhat like I see celibacy: a chosen sexual lifestyle. It does not serve the societal purpose of procreation, but celibacy does not either.

Rather than kooky, this is perfectly logical. Not as a real comparison between hetero vs homosexual sex, but rather as choosing a 'non-procreational habit'.

[ft.niagara]

Personally, I see homosexuality somewhat like I see celibacy: a chosen sexual lifestyle. It does not serve the societal purpose of procreation, but celibacy does not either.

That is the kookiest thing I've heard in a very long time.

Can I ask, are you a heterosexual?

Dear Gerry,

Rather than diverting the issue, is homosexuality a lifestyle, a condition, a disease, what is it, or what do you think it is?

BTW, do you like hockey? A hat trick is a three goal night. Is there any signifigance to the number three for you?

[Charles Anthony]

However, 'banning religion' will never work. Just as 'banning homosexuality' wouldn't work.

I agree.

I will boldly say "just as banning government would not work" would be the best analogy.

Organized religion is just a form of government.

Many people:

- want leaders

- do not want to be fully responsible for themselves

- do not have the capacity to be fully responsible for themselves

- do not have the capacity to fully understand the world around themselves

- want to be told what to do

- take advantage of all of the above

and thus they prefer government or organized religion.

I'd rather see an all out debate about 'Which is the one true god?" (Or scripture...and the evidence for or against the existence of god, and 'truthfulness' of all religious texts, to be put to a worldwide trial)

That would be interesting. Where to start?

For those who want to get side-tracked about discussing homosexuality being a choice, I highly recommend the entertaining but kooky thread: The "gay Gene" -- Myth and misunderstanding started and thankfully ended many moons ago.

[Guest Warwick Green]

"From my point of view, I would ban religion completely. Organized religion doesn't seem to work. It turns people into really hateful lemmings and it's not really compassionate."

Typical ideological response to a problem. Both left and right - you don't like something. Ban it.

[mcqueen625]

I hate starting a new thread when so many exist about religion, but...

http://start.shaw.ca/start/enCA/Entertainm...rc=e111113A.xml

"From my point of view, I would ban religion completely. Organized religion doesn't seem to work. It turns people into really hateful lemmings and it's not really compassionate."

I would say many people feel this way. However, 'banning religion' will never work. Just as 'banning homosexuality' wouldn't work. I'd rather see an all out debate about 'Which is the one true god?" (Or scripture...and the evidence for or against the existence of god, and 'truthfulness' of all religious texts, to be put to a worldwide trial)

And many people also feel religion is very benefical and gives them the strength to be forgiving. As a christian, I feel the gay lifestyle is wrong. However, I am not a 'hateful' lemming nor do I hate gays, which is the pet stereotype usually trotted out on this topic. For Elton to lash out at religions, it only shows his prejudices.

To me it also reveals the true agenda of the gay/lesbian proponents. If you cannot force your beliefs on the majority through flawed legislation and a liberal minded judiciary, why not ban the biggest opponents of the homosexual lifestyle, organized religions.

[jbg]

And many people also feel religion is very benefical and gives them the strength to be forgiving. As a christian, I feel the gay lifestyle is wrong. However, I am not a 'hateful' lemming nor do I hate gays, which is the pet stereotype usually trotted out on this topic. For Elton to lash out at religions, it only shows his prejudices.

It also shows his ignorance. Religion, by and large, is about comfort, order, timeless, changeless things that create a worldly pattern. Only the smallest, least important part of the Western religions are about intolerance, bigotry and, for Elton John, homophobia.

[Nyxis]

Considering homosexualities links to genetics why is it not considered a disease? Genetic infertility is considered a disease and it has the same basic outcome as homosexuality.

[gc1765]

Considering homosexualities links to genetics why is it not considered a disease? Genetic infertility is considered a disease and it has the same basic outcome as homosexuality.

Should we consider anyone who masturbates as someone who has a "disease"? Masturbation doesn't lead to children either.

[Who's Doing What?]

Who cares why he denouced it atleast he got it right. Organized religion is for suckers. It has been perverted and corrupted since the beginning and imo exists for no other reason than to control the ignorant and uneducated. Which used to be 99% of the population. The smart followers are just scared of what will happen after they die.

[Guest Warwick Green]

Considering homosexualities links to genetics why is it not considered a disease? Genetic infertility is considered a disease and it has the same basic outcome as homosexuality.

Should we consider anyone who masturbates as someone who has a "disease"? Masturbation doesn't lead to children either.

I don't think anybody has linked masturbation to genetics. But of course, even though homosexuality may be genetic in origin doesn't make it a "disease".

[jbg]

Who cares why he denouced it atleast he got it right. Organized religion is for suckers. It has been perverted and corrupted since the beginning and imo exists for no other reason than to control the ignorant and uneducated. Which used to be 99% of the population. The smart followers are just scared of what will happen after they die.

I don't know about any other religion, but my religion (link to source) attaches very little importance to or emphasis on the afterlife.

Traditional Judaism firmly believes that death is not the end of human existence. However, because Judaism is primarily focused on life here and now rather than on the afterlife, Judaism does not have much dogma about the afterlife, and leaves a great deal of room for personal opinion. It is possible for an Orthodox Jew to believe that the souls of the righteous dead go to a place similar to the Christian heaven, or that they are reincarnated through many lifetimes, or that they simply wait until the coming of the messiah, when they will be resurrected. Likewise, Orthodox Jews can believe that the souls of the wicked are tormented by demons of their own creation, or that wicked souls are simply destroyed at death, ceasing to exist.

Biblical References to the Afterlife

Some scholars claim that belief in the afterlife is a teaching that developed late in Jewish history. It is true that the Torah emphasizes immediate, concrete, physical rewards and punishments rather than abstract future ones. See, for example, Lev. 26:3-9 and Deut. 11:13-15.

While I am not familiar with the linked site, this is in accord with my understanding, through worship and religious school, of the role or lack thereof of an afterlife in Jewish thought.

[August1991]

Who cares why he denouced it atleast he got it right. Organized religion is for suckers. It has been perverted and corrupted since the beginning and imo exists for no other reason than to control the ignorant and uneducated. Which used to be 99% of the population. The smart followers are just scared of what will happen after they die.

WDW gets the thread back above the waterline before it keels over once again below the waves.

Let me try to put it right once more.

I think Elton John borrowed his comment from Richard Dawkins and his most recent best seller, The God Delusion:

The antireligion wars started by Daniel Dennett and Sam Harris will heat up even more with this salvo from celebrated Oxford biologist Dawkins. For a scientist who criticizes religion for its intolerance, Dawkins has written a surprisingly intolerant book, full of scorn for religion and those who believe. But Dawkins, who gave us the selfish gene, anticipates this criticism. He says it's the scientist and humanist in him that makes him hostile to religions—fundamentalist Christianity and Islam come in for the most opprobrium—that close people's minds to scientific truth, oppress women and abuse children psychologically with the notion of eternal damnation. While Dawkins can be witty, even confirmed atheists who agree with his advocacy of science and vigorous rationalism may have trouble stomaching some of the rhetoric: the biblical Yahweh is "psychotic," Aquinas's proofs of God's existence are "fatuous" and religion generally is "nonsense."

Dawkins is hardly making a new argument.

I tend to agree with Charles above that organized religion is just politics by another name and if Dawkins thinks that death, evil, war and destruction would disappear if organized religion disappeared, he's sadly mistaken.

Human beings can live together in civilized society but organized religion is neither a prerequisite nor a hindrance to such a state.

I will admit that the latest (very brief) evidence is that Godless people (gay or otherwise) don't have many children so our current experiment in irreligion may be short lived.

---

ft. niagara, I've always associated gerry's name with Geriatric. To each one's own.

[B. Max]

Who cares why he denouced it atleast he got it right. Organized religion is for suckers. It has been perverted and corrupted since the beginning and imo exists for no other reason than to control the ignorant and uneducated. Which used to be 99% of the population. The smart followers are just scared of what will happen after they die.

Yes perverted and corrupted by atheist perverts infiltrating the church and masquerading as Christians. Elton John is a good example as to why him and his filth should be put back in the closet and the door locked.

[Electric Monk]

Any examples of Atheist perverts infiltrating and masquerading B. Max?

[Ladyjen]

To me homosexuality is not a choice, it is a biological difference. Who in their right mind would CHOOSE a life style that has been condemed and deemed unacceptable by many in society? Who would CHOOSE a lifestyle that has had the capacity to render a person an outsider and create such unhappiness in their everyday lives? Prior to the last 30 years people HAD to live secret lives because they were born homosexual. That would have been a barrel of fun huh?

[B. Max]

Any examples of Atheist perverts infiltrating and masquerading B. Max?

How about all the scandals coming out of the Catholic church for years now involving their priests.

Just as scandalous is the world council of churches.

http://cnview.com/on_line_resources/world_...of_churches.htm

[Who's Doing What?]

Who cares why he denouced it atleast he got it right. Organized religion is for suckers. It has been perverted and corrupted since the beginning and imo exists for no other reason than to control the ignorant and uneducated. Which used to be 99% of the population. The smart followers are just scared of what will happen after they die.

I don't know about any other religion, but my religion (link to source) attaches very little importance to or emphasis on the afterlife.

Traditional Judaism firmly believes that death is not the end of human existence. However, because Judaism is primarily focused on life here and now rather than on the afterlife, Judaism does not have much dogma about the afterlife, and leaves a great deal of room for personal opinion. It is possible for an Orthodox Jew to believe that the souls of the righteous dead go to a place similar to the Christian heaven, or that they are reincarnated through many lifetimes, or that they simply wait until the coming of the messiah, when they will be resurrected. Likewise, Orthodox Jews can believe that the souls of the wicked are tormented by demons of their own creation, or that wicked souls are simply destroyed at death, ceasing to exist.

Biblical References to the Afterlife

Some scholars claim that belief in the afterlife is a teaching that developed late in Jewish history. It is true that the Torah emphasizes immediate, concrete, physical rewards and punishments rather than abstract future ones. See, for example, Lev. 26:3-9 and Deut. 11:13-15.

While I am not familiar with the linked site, this is in accord with my understanding, through worship and religious school, of the role or lack thereof of an afterlife in Jewish thought.

It still discusses the after life. It is still used as a means of control. It still says an all powerful being is the reason for our existance.

Your "word of god" is only a man's musings. God did not create man, man created god.

[jbg]

It still discusses the after life. It is still used as a means of control. It still says an all powerful being is the reason for our existance.

Your "word of god" is only a man's musings. God did not create man, man created god.

Karl Marx is long dead. Fidel Castro will be soon. That leaves, for you, Kim Il Jong II, Hugo Chavez and Jack Layton.

[Who's Doing What?]

That is a pretty ignorant response, but what else can be expected from one of the brainwashed masses.

You keep making your Rabbi's rich, I'm going to spend my time and money on something worth while.

[jbg]

That is a pretty ignorant response, but what else can be expected from one of the brainwashed masses.

You keep making your Rabbi's rich, I'm going to spend my time and money on something worth while.

That shows your utter ignorance. Rabbis, unlike, tel-evangelists, do not get rich. If there is any religion that has a "worthwhile" heritage, it is Judaism. I am fully prepared to discuss it rationally with anyone.

[Electric Monk]

Any examples of Atheist perverts infiltrating and masquerading B. Max?

How about all the scandals coming out of the Catholic church for years now involving their priests.

Just as scandalous is the world council of churches.

http://cnview.com/on_line_resources/world_...of_churches.htm

Looks like you found some perverts, now the atheist part?

Is the WCC made up of masquerading atheists?

(Edited to add on-topic content)

I think banning religion would be both wrong and ineffective, religion is something that took me a number of years to exit. Not all people want to, or can do the same, for them it serves a useful purpose. I don't think all the ills of the world are caused by religion, but surely some of the religious wars that humans have fought in the past, and are fighting now would at the very least be fought for other reasons. I bear no ill will to those who participate in religion, only when they infringe on the freedom of others does it bother me.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." The Friends of Voltaire (1906)