Maher Arar

[Higgly]

Maher Arar was deported to Syria and tortured. This is a Candian citizen. We do not treat our worst criminals like this. Clifford Olson, Paul Bernardo. Has Robert Picton been tortured to extract a confession?

This is an innocent man and a Canadian citizen. He was deported by a foreign state (the USA) to Syria and tortured on the say-so of the RCMP.

[geoffrey]

He had 7 possible chances to explain that he was being tortured in private conversation with consular officals, the Canadian Ambassador in Syria found no reason to believe he was being tortured...

Personally, I think he got a bad deal with the whole deportation, but all these torture allegations, they don't hold water. You think a consular offical in the Middle East would know what some signs of torture were hey? He went from a guy that was poorly treated to a guy with an agenda, probably with some dollar signs in his eyes. I honestly don't think he was tortured to any great extent, maybe a few emotionally hurtful grillings by investigators, but tortured? There would be evidence, which there is none.

Oh well, too bad. He was a person of interest to the RCMP and the US government thought he was a member of al-Qaeda. He even signed a confession, not that I think he was al-Qaeda... but what is our government to think of that when someone signs away that they are a terrorist? Support him? It'd be death on the international stage.

It happened, he should be compensated for lost time at work, with his kids, whatever, but that's where it ends. I support the law the was sent to Syria under (it protects Canadians, we let our terrorists run free when they get here), even though it's been negotiated to not apply to Canadians now unfortunately.

[Higgly]

I haven't seen this report. Was there a Syrian or American official present when the consular official was interviewing him? I am willing to bet that there was, in which case all bets are off. This is like having the cops in the room when you are speaking to your lawyer.

Anyways, this is a moot point. A Canadian citizen being deported for torture by the US to a third country is a damned good place to draw the line. I frankly don't give a damn whether he is making a cause celebre out of this. It is immaterial. If the guy is suspect, then let the Canadian authorities deal with it. Farming him out to the Syrians just doesn't cut it.

Here is a description of one of the torture techniques used by Syria:

The German chair. So named because it was invented by a former member of the Nazi SS who escaped to Syria at the end of WWII. This guy is now guarded by a bunch of Syrian agents. The reason for this is that one day he opened a parcel and had a number of fingers blown off.

The torture involves a chair which can be manipulated in such a way that it slowly breaks the spine of the victim. Presumably if he talks, the torture is stopped. On the other hand, if he is innocent - as was the case with Mr. Arar, then he has nothing to say, and his back is broken. He is a cripple for life.

Have you really thought about the implications of this?

[geoffrey]

Obviously they didn't use it, he's not a cripple.

[Higgly]

Just goes to show you the benefits of marrying well. If his wife hadn't stood up for him, he would have been at the mercy of the likes of you.

[geoffrey]

Emotional arguments are rather petty. I don't think it's good that he got sent to Syria, but I really don't believe he was tortured there. We should have got him out at our first opportunity, once the RCMP made sure he wasn't a terrorist.

You do know how easily people get out and disappear in Canada. If he was al-Qaeda, and brough back, he'd be back in the population under false identity before the RCMP could investigate further. They know this, could have been behind their reasoning.

[watching&waiting]

I am sorry that people keep thinking of this as he was something other then a Canadian citizen. All this arguing and we forget that he was a citizen of Canada. Not a Syrian anymore. So if this was a person that was born here or lets say he was a well known Canadian. Would this have happened? The RCMP and CSIS were wrong to do what they did and those involved deserve to be brought out into the open and removed from their jobs. It is that simple. If I did this same thing as a normal cicitzen and was responsible for the deportation and torture of another Canadian citizen, would I not be tried and made to pay for my deeds? The RCMP and CSIS are no different and should not be accorded any more protection from prsectution then anyone else.

[Leafless]

Maher Arar contributed to his predicament 100%.

I don't bleed for Mr. Arar and any records pertaining to national security should be kept secret.

[cybercoma]

There must be a pretty good reason this happened. They don't just send random people to Syria knowing they'll be tortured.

[watching&waiting]

That is the real question, and it seems that the government and the RCMP have lots to hide, and they know releasin g it would mean they will be shown as the bad guys. Evey person who is not part of the RCMP and CSIS but have the clearance to see the details have said that there does not appear to be any reason for such censoring of the documents. So why is it done so much, other then to hide their crimes.

[Leafless]

That is the real question, and it seems that the government and the RCMP have lots to hide, and they know releasin g it would mean they will be shown as the bad guys. Evey person who is not part of the RCMP and CSIS but have the clearance to see the details have said that there does not appear to be any reason for such censoring of the documents. So why is it done so much, other then to hide their crimes.

Dual citizenship holder Syrian/Canadian has been cleared of any wrong doing.

This will possibly make Mr. Arar a rich man at the expense of the country of Canada, the Canadian tax payer, a group Mr. Arar cannot attach any sentiment or loyalty to after returning to the safety of Canadian soil. A fact he should be very thankful for.

His perusal of some type revenge for his self induced ordeal (travelling out of Canada at a time of high terrorist activity) and also being a citizen of Syria is plain dumb. There could be some kind of connection (financial) concerning (from what I understand) as an unemployed consultant.

IMO the federal government even considering giving this man some type of payoff concerning his self induced ordeal reflects badly, concerning the democratic and free country Canada is and could be considered a slap in the face to all Canadians.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...56d&k=70727

[M.Dancer]

That is the real question, and it seems that the government and the RCMP have lots to hide, and they know releasin g it would mean they will be shown as the bad guys. Evey person who is not part of the RCMP and CSIS but have the clearance to see the details have said that there does not appear to be any reason for such censoring of the documents. So why is it done so much, other then to hide their crimes.

Dual citizenship holder Syrian/Canadian has been cleared of any wrong doing.

This will possibly make Mr. Arar a rich man at the expense of the country of Canada, the Canadian tax payer, a group Mr. Arar cannot attach any sentiment or loyalty to after returning to the safety of Canadian soil.

You spoke to him about his loyalty or did your toaster tell you this?

His perusal of some type revenge for his self induced ordeal (travelling out of Canada at a time of high terrorist activity) and also being a citizen of Syria is plain dumb . There could be some kind of connection (financial) concerning (from what I understand) as an unemployed consultant.

You mean you aren't blaming the airlines for flying outside of Canada at that time of danger!!!

Which is dumber, his parents for having a baby in Syria or Arar for being born Syrian?

IMO the federal government even considering giving this man some type of payoff concerning his self induced ordeal reflects badly, concerning the democratic and free country Canada is and could be considered a slap in the face to all Canadians.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...56d&k=70727

I'm not sure how one can interpose democratic and free and at the same time espouse an abrogation of responsibility...then again, my toaster stays silent.

[Wilber]

If you hold a citizenship in a country such as Syria or Iran you are leaving yourself open to being treated like one if you go there. The issue is not what happened to him in Syria but how he got there.

[M.Dancer]

If you hold a citizenship in a country such as Syria or Iran you are leaving yourself open to being treated like one if you go there. The issue is not what happened to him in Syria but how he got there.

Very good point and very succinct

[Drea]

All international travel should be banned. Immediately (there's friggin' terrorists out there folks!!!). There is absolutely no good reason for anyone to travel anywhere -- let alone a backwater hole like Syria. You should especially stay home if yer hair and eyes are a dark shade of brown.

[Higgly]

So the story is now out and it has been ruled that the RCMP provided false information to the CIA. Arar has been completely cleared. Whoever it was that said Arar contributed 100% to his own predicament is wrong. The reason that Arar was fingered by CSIS and the RCMP was because he met with a guy in a coffee shop to talk about buying some sort of second hand item. Something people do all the time. Apparently the other guy was part of an investigation.

Pretty flimsy evidence for extradition and torture. At the very least it would put the onus on every Canadian citizen to know whether anyone they deal with, even in the most casual manner, is a suspected terrorist. Hardly a reasonable test.

[August1991]

He had 7 possible chances to explain that he was being tortured in private conversation with consular officals, the Canadian Ambassador in Syria found no reason to believe he was being tortured...

It's sad to say Geoffrey, but that doesn't mean much. This is what Canada's Ambassador in Syria reported about Arar's incarceration:

Among the pages marked "top secret" and "for Canadian eyes only," the most provocative were authored by Franco Pillarella, Canada's ambassador to Syria at the time Arar was deported to Damascus.

Just days after Arar arrived at a Syrian military prison, Pillarella's memos back to Ottawa say his Syrian contact has told him that Arar was being interrogated and had confessed to links with terrorist organizations, alluding to groups based in Pakistan.

The Syrians, wrote Pillarella, "promised to pass on to me any information they may gather on Arar's implication in terrorist activities."

CBC

So, the Canadian embassy seemed more concerned about Arar's intelligence value than about helping a Canadian citizen in distress.

I'm surprised Foreign Affairs didn't destroy that report. It appears that the RCMP has shredded any of its reports.

----

Other than the irony of the US sending a suspected terrorist back to a regime suspected of terrorism (WTF?), I have two thoughts about this case.

First, Arar is right to complain that the RCMP officers and Foreign Affairs officers will never be held accountable for their mistakes. No one will lose a job or even a promotion over this. Pillarella was an Ambassador in Berlin and then in Damascus. He'll go - with whatever "family" he declares according to whichever bureaucratic rules to whichever comfortable house/driver/maid next. At our expense.

In the past 50 years, government bureaucracies have grown tremendously and now we have officials who exercice the authority of government but are not accountable. In addition to how government bureaucrats spend our money, this is one of the most disturbing aspects of governments for me. There is no check on what they do. Pillarella is a perfect example. He enjoyed a wonderful life using the reputation of all Canadians. We gave our collective reputation to this ambassador, a man so foolish that he recorded his thoughts for all to see when one case came to light. Imagine how else this fool used our reputation speaking with the authority of the Government of Canada.

Government is a useful tool but a dangerous master. Like fire, in the hands of a fool it can cause much danger. I am astonished that the modern world has allowed so many foolish bureaucrats.

In a sense, I am more bothered that government officials can so easily make grave mistakes. Indeed, they have no incentives to avoid making mistakes. I am reminded of this case but there are many more like it.

We are all appalled by the injustice of bureaucrats who can escape the consequences of their errors. I am more concerned about the errors themselves. How many errors did bureaucrats in the CIA commit prior to the September 2001 attacks in the US? The incentive architecture for government bureaucrats is misleading.

Second, I fear that people from Middle Eastern states will unfortunately have to get used to being detained and possibly arrested falsely in the future. Arar's arrest followed the September 2001 attacks. We simply cannot maintain all the niceties of civil society while simultaneously defending ourselves from such attacks. If Islamic terrorists attack in the west again with such ferocity, such incidents like Arar will happen again.

[Led Boots]

This is the point that really needs addressing here. Why send the guy to Syria?

Mr. Arar’s arrest and subsequent detention was somewhat understandable due to the fact that he admitted to having a casual relationship with Abdulla Almaki. Mr.Almaki had previously worked im Pakistan as a project director for a charitable organization called Human Concern International. His regional director was Ahmad Said Khadr.

He is questioned in particular about Abdullah Almalki. Arar tells them that he only knows him very casually, but that he worked with his brother Nazih at two high tech firms in Ottawa and Hull. He tells them that the Almalki family came from Syria about the same time as his, so the families know of each other. Arar does not know why they are questioning him so much about Abdullah. He tells them he has seen Abdullah a few times and he describes, in detail, the times he can remember. Arar is shocked when they show him the rental lease he signed when he moved to Ottawa in 1997. It was witnessed by Abdullah Almalki. Arar remembers this and explains he had asked Nazih to sign it, but that Nazih was busy and sent his brother instead.

I think they should compensate Mr.Arar and agree with August1991 that we will see more of this as time goes on.

The CIA and FBI learned from dealing with the Hells Angels that infiltration is the best way to gain accurate knowledge of a criminal organization. Pre 911 US didn’t have a great deal of first hand information about the inner goings on of terrorist organizations. Post 911 I’m willing to bet that there is a great deal of effort going into getting people on the inside.

BTW, I watched the CBC coverage on this last night and they said that the information being withheld by the RCMP could possibly lead back to the Liberal brass, anyone know anything about this?

If true it could be a Christmas with consequences for the next Liberal party leader. Yes? No?

[Leafless]

So the story is now out and it has been ruled that the RCMP provided false information to the CIA. Arar has been completely cleared. Whoever it was that said Arar contributed 100% to his own predicament is wrong. The reason that Arar was fingered by CSIS and the RCMP was because he met with a guy in a coffee shop to talk about buying some sort of second hand item. Something people do all the time. Apparently the other guy was part of an investigation.

Pretty flimsy evidence for extradition and torture. At the very least it would put the onus on every Canadian citizen to know whether anyone they deal with, even in the most casual manner, is a suspected terrorist. Hardly a reasonable test.

Are you naive or what.

Anyone who hangs around with any dangerous suspect who is under surveillance could or might be implicated as part of the suspects group.

The fact remains Arar was in the U.S. at the time of his detainment an extremely dangerous place for a Syrian citizen/Canadian citizen to be in a time of terrorist activity.

He is the author of his own misfortune.

It really amazes me concerning the fact some members on this site hold the view that authorities are suppose have 100% accurate information on the hundreds or thousands of possible suspects being monitored regarding terrorist activity at a time of high alert.

[BubberMiley]

They had reason to be suspicious of him just because he was travelling?

You have declared yourself anti-Canadian, and even use the screen name "Leafless" to demonstrate that you are not loyal to Canada. Isn't this grounds for suspicion of anti-Canadian activity in general?

Off to the secret prison with you. You brought it on yourself.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Now that Arar is suing the government for $400 Million dollars, it makes you wonder how much he is really seeking justice at this point?

[August1991]

Now that Arar is suing the government for $400 Million dollars...

Credible link?

[Charles Anthony]

it makes you wonder how much he is really seeking justice at this point?

Recent statements in the press suggest that he is not only concerned about compensation for himself but also preventing this from happening again to anybody else.

She said Arar wants a declaration that "he is entirely innocent," as well as assurances that nobody else in his situation will be treated similarly.

He is also seeking damages for the economic losses he suffered during his 10 months in Syria, as well as for the mental and physical anguish endured by himself and his family.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/news/national/2004...suit040122.html

The lawsuit, which was launched last January in the U.S., alleges that U.S. officials within President George Bush's administration knew Arar would be tortured.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...1106404904408_3

I give Arar the benefit of the doubt. More power to him.

The paranoid cynic in me fears for Arar's life. Slobodan Milosevic died mysteriously in his sleep after requesting a subpoena for President Clinton to appear as a witness to his trial in The Hague. Before he died, Milosevic wrote letters to his relatives stating that he believed he was being poisoned.

[Leafless]

They had reason to be suspicious of him just because he was travelling?

You have declared yourself anti-Canadian, and even use the screen name "Leafless" to demonstrate that you are not loyal to Canada. Isn't this grounds for suspicion of anti-Canadian activity in general?

Off to the secret prison with you. You brought it on yourself.

For U.S. border authorities at time of high terrorist activity to be suspicious of someone who is also a Syrian citizen. Yes, I would say this would be a reasonable assessment relating to security of the country.

Anti-Canadian, I believe there is no such word.

You must mean un-Canadian.

If I possess un-Canadian ideologies, it is fully owed to political correctness in this country, which allows OTHERS to be labelled Canadian while not possessing national Canadian values and loyalties.

Saying this forms the basis for my screen name 'Leafless', as surely I must be entitled to the same entitlements as dictated by Canadian political correctness.

[BubberMiley]

Anti-Canadian, I believe there is no such word.

You must mean un-Canadian.

If I possess un-Canadian ideologies, it is fully owed to political correctness in this country, which allows OTHERS to be labelled Canadian while not possessing national Canadian values and loyalties.

Saying this forms the basis for my screen name 'Leafless', as surely I must be entitled to the same entitlements as dictated by Canadian political correctness.

Of course anti-Canadian is a word. "Anti" is an adjective that can precede pretty much any noun. It just means "in opposition to."

"Un-Canadian", on the other hand, means "not Canadian", like German or Chinese, for example.

Therefore, you possess an anti-Canadian ideology in that you are opposed to what you perceive to be a prevalent Canadian "politically correct" ideology. I don't agree with its prevalence--I think Canada has a healthy convergence of many different viewpoints. But you have a certain vision of what Canada is, you are opposed to that vision, so you are therefore anti-Canadian.

Not to mention, I find it very contrary to the Canadian ideal of freedom (and therefore truly "anti-Canadian") that you would say that a person should not travel because of their ethnic heritage.