Led Boots

Its beyond me too. What are you talking about ? I'm sure your handlers at Amtrac and CP Rail would be very pleased with you right now Polynewbie. SHILL!!!

You all have it wrong! I have UNdeniable, UNdebunkable, UNreliable proof that 911 WAS an inside job! Black Dog, you sir are nothing more than a scoundrel. I dare you…nay I DOUBLE Black Dog dare you to debunk what you are about to see. Kimmy…….pffft (need I repeat myself Kimmy?). Canadian Blue, I hope you enjoy your stay in concentration camp #2777 my friend, they really do serve the best gruel. Poly…ohhh….poor, poor Poly. How you have been led astray is beyond me (actually it isn’t, think mind control, all the NWO’s are doing it.) For the rest of you, prepare to have your world turned upside down and inside out. We, the proletariat have been lied to! The MSM, government agencies and even our own mother’s would have us believe that 19 Islamic radicals highjacked 4 planes on September 11 2001 with the intention of spreading terror throughout the western world. Ohhhh I admit it rhymes with planes, but there were no planes. There were no Islamic radicals spreading terror. There is only the undeniable troof which I am, at great risk to my personal safety, about to share with you all. I will keep you in suspense no longer friends, my time has run out and I’m afraid someone is on to me. Behold the truth about 911! Debunk that you damned dirty Dog. Ps. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all!

And Santa 's coming in a couple of weeks!

Temagami, I guess I just didn’t grow up believing in the stereotypes as my family is soooo mixed in respect to our ancestry. My mother’s side of the family is a mixture of German and Russian and my father’s is French, Hungarian, Iroquois and Métis. To complicate matters further my wife is a mixture of Australian Scottish and Koori (in perfect proportion of course) which leaves me wondering what stereotypes my kids should live up to.

Considering that the alternative to paying for temporary housing is to put 600 people (many of them children) on the streets I think the federal government made the right choice. I have to agree with qc1765 that the monetary cost is unimportant in this situation (and I’m a typical whiney tax payer).

Temagami, no big surprise to me. I’ve stayed in many Native owned and operated camps in northern Alberta, worked along side many aboriginal contractors in the oil and gas sectors and recently spent about a year and a half helping a couple of friends (who are Cree) start up a fabrication business in the Edmonton area. (They know the business end of it and I know the production end of it.) What does surprise me is how the stereotype (lazy Natives) persists in the face of these realities. Kinda wunderin' the same thing.

Heheh...can't really disagree with you if your point is that the federal govt. is an over bloated pig that steals from peter to pay paul but my point is that demographics are rapidly changing here and with these changes we are becoming more and more representitive of Canada as a whole.Hell the young hip kids are calling us Ab. to the R.O.C. It is the Alberta of our generation and our children's generation. (Unless you've got a receipt for it that is.) Giver. Lets have a referendum tomorrow and see what happens. I'll live by the results, will you?

How to make Canadian pie (tourtiere(sp) for you Kwee-becker’s) 2 cups-Alberta 1 cup-Saskatchewan 3/4 cup-BC 1/2 cup-Ontario 1/4 cup-Newfoundland 1/3 cup-miscellaneous 3 tbl spoons-boom and doom economy Mix vigorously in a bowl with a land mass of 661 190 sq. km’s. Bake in a temperate oven for 101years then drizzle with copious amounts of crude oil and natural gas to taste. This is no longer the Alberta of our parents and grandparents Jerry.

This was an inaccurate statement. (From post #276) Engineer approved drawings would provide traceability of materials approved for construction; they would not provide traceability of fabrication procedures. Traceability of fabrication procedures would be found in the quality control manual of the company/s contracted to build the WTC complex. The application of these procedures would be included in a data package specific to this job (the data package should also include traceability of materials used). I should point out that I am applying my knowledge and experience from the oil and gas industry to the building of high rises (although the concept of traceability is universal when building to codes or standards).

Polynewbie, I can't take anything you say seriously as you approach this with pre-determined conclusions and only search for information which backs that up (this is what I'm talking about Charles). You don't really care about what happened on September 11 2006, you only care about how you can tie it into your personal theories of how the world works. This is extremely dis-respectful to the victims and surviving family members of the 911 tragedy.

Absolutely, the whole point of traceability is to be able to assign liability in the case of failure. There would also be traceability of the fabrication procedures used in the construction of the tower complex in the form of engineer approved drawings. The engineer approved drawings have never been released. Along with the possibility of lawsuits to the owners and builders there is also a possibility that the Manhattan skyline is dotted with other buildings that may not meet the minimum requirements for safety as specified in the building codes that were in place during their construction.

http://www.house.gov/science/hot/wtc/wtc-r.../WTC_apndxB.pdf …and the plot thickens… Pay particular attention to the bolded areas here. As someone who deals with codes, standards and all the related documentation everyday I find this troublesome and here’s why: 1) 0% Traceability of building materials (assuming the manufacturer of the steel [in Japan] has not kept records stating the heat and lot numbers of the material shipped). 2) No attempt was made to confirm the chemical or mechanical properties of the steel used in the construction of a building which fell down and killed many innocent people. To summarize; We have a structure which was exempted from existing building codes that has 0% traceability of materials (assumed) get hit by two fully fueled jets and collapse killing thousands of innocent people. The institution investigating this tragic event has no interest in the mechanical or chemical properties of the materials used (tensile strengths of the materials is soooo crucial here). I’ve got no problems with that….do you?

Charles, so what is your angle on this. Do you think that there was a conspiracy to take down the towers or a conspiracy to cover up evidence after the towers collapsed. For myself, I'm starting to believe that there was a cover up of the evidence at the scene to thwart critisism of the New York Port Authority and it's decision to not build the WTC site to the building codes in use at that time. I found it interseting to read the comments on that architectural forum concerning this incedent as there is a school of thought that we have out paced the ability of technology to build safe high rise buildings. They call them P.C.s (people crushers). So could this be a cover up to avoid non-payment from insurance companies or something of that sort?

Well you sound like a reasonable sort Gosthacked. The issue I personally have with the polynewbie’s out there in cyberland is that every new theory has one common denominator: The Government/Bush/Illuminati/Giant Spice Worms from the planet Arakis did it. This says something important about the theory’s in that every new theory must conform to this conclusion. This severely limits ones ability to research any fact which doesn’t conform to this intended conclusion…(do you agree?). This in no way means that we shouldn’t be critical of, or question the findings of reports such as the FEMA report on the WTC collapse, it just means that when we do question the government’s findings we should do so with facts, not conjecture coupled with pre-determined conclusions. I was starting to look into who the EPA’s special agent in charge was during the time frame that the attack on New York took place but wasn’t really finding anything useful so I decided to take a different approach. I started to think, “wouldn’t it be interesting to sit in a room full of professionals who actually build high rises and hear what they have to say about what happened on September 11 2001, do they argue about controlled demo’s and free fall speeds of the buildings during collapse”. As luck would have it I did have a link to an architectural forum which was e-mailed to me by a friend of my wife’s from Seattle who happens to be an architect. She has been helping us through the design phase of our new home and had sent us the link to help answer some of the questions we have about designing an energy efficient house. I tried a search for WTC and low and behold they are talking about it. What I found out was very interesting indeed. It turns out that when the New York Port Authority built the WTC all building codes were suspended for the project. Could this be why the plans for the WTC were never released to the general public? Could this also be why materials were whisked off site to be re-cycled before a full investigation could be preformed? It doesn’t answer Charles Anthony’s question: Who? But it does partially explain why [materials were removed in haste]? Here is a couple quotes from professionals who actually design and build the high rises we see in our downtown cores. And (Polynewbie may want to pay particular attention to what happens to concrete at certain temperatures) link So here we have a forum dedicated to architects and structural engineers talking about what they think caused the collapse and pointing out design flaws which the Port Authority may not want people knowing about.

(Polynewbie stands under a light standard pointing up and yelling UFO…UFO… until you point out that it’s not a UFO it’s just the light at the end of the standard. Poly's response: run down to the next light standard, point up and yell: UFO…UFO…LOOK EVERYBODY A UFO…ad infinitum.)

Only as many as you made me go through, libertarian my ass (j/k). I was on hold with the Canadian Revenue Agency while I looked so I had time to spare.I actually figured something out (I think), when I used 911 WTC crime scene investigation in my search parameters all I got was pages and pages of indymedia, 911truth and links to the Alcaners (truthers) union hall…but when I used WTC September 11 2001crime scene investigation I got more legitimate results. I think using 911 in your search parameters spoils the results. I see your point but the officer who collected the cans was busy at the bottle depot while another officer stayed at the crime scene and took blood samples from the fatally injured parties. Baby steps are important Charles. I used to work with a guy that we, his co-workers, called “the super-cali-frag-ineer”. This sounds like the kind of title he would like. I’m game, lets dig around and see what we can come up with. My impression of you is that you’re a full time devils advocate. You stir things up in a good way Charles, now put down the doughnut and lets get back to work!

I agree. What I find disgusting about your comments is the blanket statement that all fishermen from Newfoundland are lazy. I know lazy f*king millwrights from Alberta too, the only difference between a lazy f*king fisherman from Newfound land and a lazy f*king millwright from Alberta is that the lazy f*king millwright from Alberta has a job…today that is. If oil went down to 10 bucks a barrel tomorrow the lazy f*king millwright from Alberta would become a lazy f*king unemployed millwright from Alberta with no job and same propensity for suckling off the federal teet as any other lazy person in the country. Ya…join the club. I told a guy last week that I was a native Calgarian and he asked for my autograph. It went for 3 bucks on E-Bay. Now he wants another one. I consider phrases like “lazy f*king fisherman” to be the cheapest of cheap shots. It’s right up there with “racist f*king redneck Albertan’s” on my list. I’ll reiterate my position on this issue then. I don’t think a penny of federal funds should go into this program, if the people living the in rural areas of Canada want internet access and can’t afford it they should look for a solution that doesn’t include handouts from the federal government. Pool your resources (as limited as they may be) and gain access through a community effort, sell the chevy, steal a dish from a neighboring community…what ever it takes.If the money spent on this program was going to improving healthcare in rural communities or something along those lines I would probably be on board with Rovik and Higgly…I see this as a beer and popcorn issue but maybe that’s just the Albertan in me.

I'm starting to think it's his autobiography.Hydraboss I've consulted the Alberta team and we want you off of the island by next Monday. I may not agree with the premise of this thread but you're digusting dude.

Tracing who (name or professional designation) authorized the first clearing of rubble to the scrap yards. I still maintain that whoever it was (whether it happened through incompetence or deliberate concealment of evidence), that person has a peculiar authority. Does this help?

Charles, one diet pepsi comming up. This is proof of incompetence and lack of written procedures, not conspiracy. The rescue crews were not interested in collecting samples; they were focused on finding survivors. Why was material removed at this point? Probably to make room for the rescue efforts. Why was the material discarded? Probably because there were no written procedures being followed at that time. I’ll give you a scenario, a Scottish RCMP officer arrives at the scene of a double fatality accident. Upon arrival he notices beer cans in one of the vehicles and being Scottish decides to collect them and take them to a bottle depot receiving 10 cents a can. Further investigation includes taking blood samples of the fatality injured parties; the victim in the car with the beer cans has a blood alcohol level exceeding the legal limit. Does the removal of the beer cans automatically discredit the blood sample data? Ditto on the Habeas Corpus thingy, now that’s scary, scary, scary! Well that explains the alligator bite marks on my ass. I guess I have something in common with FEMA (I f#*cked up). So now the investigators are vultures, do you have any feather samples to back that up my friend? You say the intent of the investigators was to “filter” evidence and I say the investigators were running around willy nilly with no written procedure to follow and we got what we paid for. Do you have any proof that the intent of the investigators was subterfuge? Again, where’s your proof that the intent of the officials was to purposefully remove evidence intrinsic to the investigation for the purpose of subterfuge.BTW, I agree with the direction this thread has taken since I last read it.

The sky is not green, therefore the sky must be purple, the sky is always purple. To back this up I will state that the stain on my coffee table is walnut, yet the grain pattern indicates it is made of teak. All walnut stained coffee tables are made of teak and therefore the sky is always purple. As an electrical engineer you must have some understanding of the scientific method and falsifiability Polynewbie. That being the case you must also realize that not all your swans are white. In your opinion why is the presence of sulfur so unusual? There was sulfur in many of the products consumed in the fires. The rubber backing on carpet for example: less than 5% in soft rubber but ranging from 15 to 50% in hard rubber (stapler and hole punch bases, pens and mechanical pencils, chair mats…), what data can you provide that would render this fact insignificant? Steel has sulfur in it. Out of the pot and into the fire. The picture posted here clearly shows a red hot chunk of steel and not a molten pool. A witness describes a molten steel beam…I’ve never seen a molten steel beam…anybody here ever seen a molten steel beam? The link also provides links to organizations that have conducted tests with the purpose of determining the temperatures of debris piles. The temperatures are definitely hot enough to turn steel red hot. You are as bad as the conspiracy sites Polynewbie. You fling shit at a wall and point to the pieces that stick as proof that shit is actually made out of glue. BTW, the cocktail weenies I have in my kitchen right now were also tracked by satellite from their origin to the supermarket where I purchased them. Do you want to confiscate my weenies? Charles, I'll belly up to the bar a little later. Can I buy you a drink sir?

I disagree. The investigation started when the investigators showed up to process the scene, which of course would include deciding what samples would be sufficient in answering the question of why the towers fell and not if thermite explosives were used in a controlled demolition. Hey, if you want a drink then head up to the bar and get it yourself dude. Ahhh to hell with it here’s your beer. It doesn’t give the names and phone numbers of the individual investigators but do you really need to know that it was Stanley Wickenhouserson from Boise Idaho with blah blah credentials that collected x sample? It does point out that mistakes were made and the incompetence that characterized much of the governments response to events leading up to and including September 11 2001 was also present during the investigation (Warning subliminal message: Katrina). FEMA f*#ked up.Does this automatically discredit the data collected from the chosen samples? Would the additional “important pieces of evidence” that were discarded prove the demolition theory or advance the engineering technologies related to the building of steel structures? If I were to prove to you that the moon was not made of green cheese could I just bring back a few chunks of it or do you want the whole damned moon Charles? Answer my questions Charles, it your turn to buy.

Charles, While I can only guess at who made the decision/s on what samples would be kept and what wouldn’t be kept, I would imagine the end decision/s would be made by the experts in each individual discipline that were involved in the investigation. This would be a good place to start if you really want an answer to your question. I also searched for a written procedure (FEMA) that would be followed in a case like 911 but didn’t find anything worthwhile. Would it really make that much of a difference to you if you knew the persons name that made the decision to keep certain samples and discard the rest? If 6 billion people witnessed some guy pull out a gun and shoot another guy in the head would you worry about who conducted the post mortem autopsy? I think this is a very similar situation but differs in the sense that the institutions making the decisions never expected the grassy knoll crowd to kick up such a fuss.

Charles, they didn't just throw out all of the evidence, samples of critical sections were kept and studied in order to better understand what caused the collapse. Here is the Fema report explaning what they found. http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_apb.pdf

Only if the program you're refering to is pandering for votes.