Carney's $1.2 billion in lumber aid inflames subsidy allegations, U.S. industry says - this is why you don't hire a banker to be a politican

[CdnFox]

Carney's lumber aid inflames subsidy allegations | Financial Post

 

So for those not familiar, for years one of the sticking points in the lumber trade war between Canada and America has been the American claim that Canadian Lumber is subsidized. They claim basically that reductions in stumpage fees and such represent subsidy. In the end they've always lost that fight in the courts and at the table, but they've never let it go.

Because carney is completely unaware of political history or politics he made the decision that he would give relief money to the lumber industry without considering it's impact on the softwood lumber agreement which is completely separate from CUSMA. Which opens the door to the Americans significantly upping the tariff or even more painfully reducing the amount of lumber allowed to be sold to the united states. This is something American Producers have been pushing for for ages and he just opened the door for them

And this is why bankers make bad politicians

[herbie]

F*cking **** traitor blames Carney for Americans being outright arseholes.
In 40 years of lumber fights they've claimed everything from universal medicare to EI and not getting to BUY the forest they log as illegal and unfair subsidies.
Now it's an in your face How dare you react when we kick you in the nuts war because we insist on having our own and not obediently follow every single American business practice.

Hoof it south if your hatred of the LPC is so great you coddle the enemy to show it.

[Shady]

20 minutes ago, herbie said:

F*cking **** traitor blames Carney for Americans being outright arseholes.
In 40 years of lumber fights they've claimed everything from universal medicare to EI and not getting to BUY the forest they log as illegal and unfair subsidies.
Now it's an in your face How dare you react when we kick you in the nuts war because we insist on having our own and not obediently follow every single American business practice.

Hoof it south if your hatred of the LPC is so great you coddle the enemy to show it.

You shouldn't let facts upset your feelings so badly.  The OP is just stating a fact as reported by media.

[ExFlyer]

 

11 minutes ago, Shady said:

You shouldn't let facts upset your feelings so badly.  The OP is just stating a fact as reported by media.

Here are the facts.....

We are where we are because of Harpers agreement. 

"The Softwood Lumber Agreement
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory

"clear that Stephen Harper did not follow his own advice be-
fore signing the Softwood Lumber Agreement. Worse, the Conservatives
were so desperate to get an agreement — any agreement — that they
broke no less than three 2006 electoral campaign promises to get it."

"Once in power, the Conservatives refused to provide direct help
or guarantee any loan to help the industry stay afloat. "

"The Harper government also agreed to give away us$1 billion of the
collected duties that legitimately belonged to the Canadian softwood
industry players. Half of this money found its way toward the coffers of
the U.S. Coalition for Fair Lumber Imports, the same group that is be-
hind all the trade challenges.
The Conservatives thus yielded lunch money to the school bully
and undoubtedly endowed him with a war chest for future trade chal-
lenges."

https://www.policyalternatives.ca/wp-content/uploads/attachments/The_Softwood_Lumber_Agreement.pdf

[Legato]

That agreement expired in 2015.

The Liberal government has sorted it all out since then......oh wait.....

[Shady]

38 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

 

Here are the facts.....

We are where we are because of Harpers agreement. 

"The Softwood Lumber Agreement
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory

"clear that Stephen Harper did not follow his own advice be-
fore signing the Softwood Lumber Agreement. Worse, the Conservatives
were so desperate to get an agreement — any agreement — that they
broke no less than three 2006 electoral campaign promises to get it."

"Once in power, the Conservatives refused to provide direct help
or guarantee any loan to help the industry stay afloat. "

"The Harper government also agreed to give away us$1 billion of the
collected duties that legitimately belonged to the Canadian softwood
industry players. Half of this money found its way toward the coffers of
the U.S. Coalition for Fair Lumber Imports, the same group that is be-
hind all the trade challenges.
The Conservatives thus yielded lunch money to the school bully
and undoubtedly endowed him with a war chest for future trade chal-
lenges."

https://www.policyalternatives.ca/wp-content/uploads/attachments/The_Softwood_Lumber_Agreement.pdf

You guys that try to blame Harper!  He hasn't been in office for 11 years!  Start holding Carney accountable for God's sake.  Same with Trudeau.

[LinkSoul60]

57 minutes ago, Shady said:

The OP is just stating a fact as reported by media.

But the Financial Post is main stream media. Can we trust it?   Interesting that the right wingers here only accept news from main stream outlets when it fits their narrative, otherwise it's fake...as I'm guessing by your laugh at ExFlyers link.

[CdnFox]

56 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

 

Here are the facts.....

We are where we are because of Harpers agreement. greement.pdf

lie.  We're where we are thanks to bad liberal policy and carney not being qualified. 

The softwood lumber deal in harper's time was a major win for canada, and he stole a liberal mp to make it happen.  And while the left cried their eyes out in frustration at the moment, time has proven it was a fantastic deal for canada. 

so if you meant 'where we are' in terms of " a really good deal on softwood that's lasted for decades to the benefit of canada", sure.   If you mean new tariffs and threatening more - that's carney. 

You know. The guy you voted for to "handle" trump  

[paxamericana]

Let me leave a bunch of these 51st business cards with you all. Call us when you’re done stumping!

[Army Guy]

33 minutes ago, LinkSoul60 said:

But the Financial Post is main stream media. Can we trust it?   Interesting that the right wingers here only accept news from main stream outlets when it fits their narrative, otherwise it's fake...as I'm guessing by your laugh at ExFlyers link.

 

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

 

Here are the facts.....

We are where we are because of Harpers agreement. 

"The Softwood Lumber Agreement
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory

"clear that Stephen Harper did not follow his own advice be-
fore signing the Softwood Lumber Agreement. Worse, the Conservatives
were so desperate to get an agreement — any agreement — that they
broke no less than three 2006 electoral campaign promises to get it."

"Once in power, the Conservatives refused to provide direct help
or guarantee any loan to help the industry stay afloat. "

"The Harper government also agreed to give away us$1 billion of the
collected duties that legitimately belonged to the Canadian softwood
industry players. Half of this money found its way toward the coffers of
the U.S. Coalition for Fair Lumber Imports, the same group that is be-
hind all the trade challenges.
The Conservatives thus yielded lunch money to the school bully
and undoubtedly endowed him with a war chest for future trade chal-
lenges."

https://www.policyalternatives.ca/wp-content/uploads/attachments/The_Softwood_Lumber_Agreement.pdf

I'm curious what prevented Justin liberals from changing any of that ? it is all well to lay this at conservatives feet, which you have, but either the liberals agree with the current policy or did not care about it....I suppose if we went back far enough in history we could lay the liberals at fault for everything....

[TreeBeard]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

 

Here are the facts.....

We are where we are because of Harpers agreement. 

"The Softwood Lumber Agreement
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory

"clear that Stephen Harper did not follow his own advice be-
fore signing the Softwood Lumber Agreement. Worse, the Conservatives
were so desperate to get an agreement — any agreement — that they
broke no less than three 2006 electoral campaign promises to get it."

"Once in power, the Conservatives refused to provide direct help
or guarantee any loan to help the industry stay afloat. "

"The Harper government also agreed to give away us$1 billion of the
collected duties that legitimately belonged to the Canadian softwood
industry players. Half of this money found its way toward the coffers of
the U.S. Coalition for Fair Lumber Imports, the same group that is be-
hind all the trade challenges.
The Conservatives thus yielded lunch money to the school bully
and undoubtedly endowed him with a war chest for future trade chal-
lenges."

https://www.policyalternatives.ca/wp-content/uploads/attachments/The_Softwood_Lumber_Agreement.pdf

Excellent reminder to avoid bad deals.  The impacts of a bad deal can resonate for decades.  

9 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

 

I'm curious what prevented Justin liberals from changing any of that ? it is all well to lay this at conservatives feet, which you have, but either the liberals agree with the current policy or did not care about it....I suppose if we went back far enough in history we could lay the liberals at fault for everything....

You’re saying Trudeau should’ve reneged on a treaty signed by his predecessor?  Thats not how Canada does business.  

[Army Guy]

46 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Excellent reminder to avoid bad deals.  The impacts of a bad deal can resonate for decades.  

You’re saying Trudeau should’ve reneged on a treaty signed by his predecessor?  Thats not how Canada does business.  

No i'm saying that, if he did not like it...he could have changed it, i mean he was in power for 10 plus years....I persoanl don't think it even came up in any liberal conversation until now....funny how trump can change deals all the time, look at where we are today....unless your saying the liberals liked the deal, or it can not be changed...Thats not doing business, thats settling for what other liberals on this forum are saying was a bad deal.... 

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, Shady said:

You guys that try to blame Harper!  He hasn't been in office for 11 years!  Start holding Carney accountable for God's sake.  Same with Trudeau.

This debacle was in 2006.... When Harper was the king. LOL

 

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

lie.  We're where we are thanks to bad liberal policy and carney not being qualified. 

The softwood lumber deal in harper's time was a major win for canada, and he stole a liberal mp to make it happen.  And while the left cried their eyes out in frustration at the moment, time has proven it was a fantastic deal for canada. 

so if you meant 'where we are' in terms of " a really good deal on softwood that's lasted for decades to the benefit of canada", sure.   If you mean new tariffs and threatening more - that's carney. 

You know. The guy you voted for to "handle" trump  

Clearly you did not read the document LOL as usual LOL

The Canadian Center for Policy  Alternatives.  is a non-partisan research institute producing research and analysis to help policy-makers, activists, and Canadians make informed decisions.

"clear that Stephen Harper did not follow his own advice be-
fore signing the Softwood Lumber Agreement. Worse, the Conservatives
were so desperate to get an agreement — any agreement — that they
broke no less than three 2006 electoral campaign promises to get it."

"Once in power, the Conservatives refused to provide direct help
or guarantee any loan to help the industry stay afloat. "

"The Harper government also agreed to give away us$1 billion of the
collected duties that legitimately belonged to the Canadian softwood
industry players. Half of this money found its way toward the coffers of
the U.S. Coalition for Fair Lumber Imports, the same group that is be-
hind all the trade challenges.
The Conservatives thus yielded lunch money to the school bully
and undoubtedly endowed him with a war chest for future trade chal-
lenges."

Waaaay before Trudeau and Carney and squarely on Harpers watch and very clearly a major fail on his part.  Read it and weep LOL

46 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

 

I'm curious what prevented Justin liberals from changing any of that ? it is all well to lay this at conservatives feet, which you have, but either the liberals agree with the current policy or did not care about it....I suppose if we went back far enough in history we could lay the liberals at fault for everything....

Oh yeah....change what??? Get the money back from the US? The report is quite thorough and detailed. 

I never laid anything at the conservatives feet...it was a report and I had nothing to do with the authorship. It was solely a Harper deal. Don't b pi$$ed at me...it is your party that did the deal.

The Canadian Center for Policy  Alternatives.  is a non-partisan research institute producing research and analysis to help policy-makers, activists, and Canadians make informed decisions.

"clear that Stephen Harper did not follow his own advice be-
fore signing the Softwood Lumber Agreement. Worse, the Conservatives
were so desperate to get an agreement — any agreement — that they
broke no less than three 2006 electoral campaign promises to get it."

"Once in power, the Conservatives refused to provide direct help
or guarantee any loan to help the industry stay afloat. "

"The Harper government also agreed to give away us$1 billion of the
collected duties that legitimately belonged to the Canadian softwood
industry players. Half of this money found its way toward the coffers of
the U.S. Coalition for Fair Lumber Imports, the same group that is be-
hind all the trade challenges.
The Conservatives thus yielded lunch money to the school bully
and undoubtedly endowed him with a war chest for future trade chal-
lenges."

Wow, you are certainly digging deep to find something, the existing softwood lumber deal is a Harper deal. .... LOL

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, paxamericana said:

Let me leave a bunch of these 51st business cards with you all. Call us when you’re done stumping!

You realize Canada probably sold you the paper for that right?  LOL

[CdnFox]

46 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

 

Clearly you did not read the document LOL as usual LOL

 

Sure I did. Like I said lots of lefty losers try to wine and paint it as being somehow a bad deal at the time but history has proven them to be wrong and him to be right.

Canada’s softwood lumber industry - Natural Resources Canada

They did that with him a lot. They said that reducing the GST was the worst thing in the universe and we were all going to die. Economists later pointed out that this actually helped save Canada's banking during the recession by stimulating spending. They said that his little trick of having cmhc by a mortgages to ensure liquidity in our banks was a terrible idea and misunderstood, turned out to be the most genius financial tool a government invented in the last 50 years and even Trudeau used the same technique himself, but that didn't stop the liberals of the time complaining about it

Like most losers on the left you enjoy rewriting history, but the numbers are quite clear. The softwood lumber deal went on to be a huge and massive victory for Canada. Yes in the very short term we gave up a small amount of tariff money we collected to make the deal happen but it was well negotiated and served us brilliantly for years.

Name a deal that the liberals have done that have managed to survive and allow Canadians to prosper that much for that long  

Sorry kiddo, you might believe your hatred and bigotry echo chamber but intelligent people won't

[ExFlyer]

7 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Sure I did. 

No you didn't or if you did you would not post  the blather like in your post LOL

[CdnFox]

Just now, ExFlyer said:

No you didn't or if you did you would not post  the blather like in your post LOL

awww little buddy,  i can always tell you knpw i'm right and you're wrong when you do the little down arrow tears  

Couldn't refute a single thing i said huh, or the facts i posted?  Well in fairness the link does prove you're wrong  

So at this point you have two choices. You can accept that I was right and you were wrong yet again for the 1 trillionth time we shouldn't bother you too much because you've got to be getting used to it, or you can spend the next four pages posting silly little prize for help that are basically you saying that you have daddy issues and begging for my attention and approval.

I think we both know which one you're going to go for. But I thought I'd point out you have a choice   

[TreeBeard]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

No i'm saying that, if he did not like it...he could have changed it

The lumber pact lapsed in 2016.  There hasn’t been one since.   And I don’t think the lumber industry was clamouring for Canada to agree under the same terrible terms. 

Edited August 12, 2025 by TreeBeard

[Army Guy]

1 hour ago, TreeBeard said:

The lumber pact lapsed in 2016.  There hasn’t been one since.   And I don’t think the lumber industry was clamouring for Canada to agree under the same terrible terms. 

So your saying that Canada or the justin liberals were incapable of negotiation a better deal...or the lumber industry is happy with what they got...i'm sure they are thrilled with the new tariffs ...

[TreeBeard]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

So your saying that Canada or the justin liberals were incapable of negotiation a better deal...or the lumber industry is happy with what they got...i'm sure they are thrilled with the new tariffs ...

Neither thing is what I said.  

[herbie]

Over the decades the USA has simply ignored or refused to abide by rulings in Canada's favour from trade bodies.
They are the ones that won't play by the rules in case you still haven't noticed. And Mango Mussolini just snaps his tiny fingers and makes up new rules and shreds existing ones.

[paxamericana]

54 minutes ago, herbie said:

Over the decades the USA has simply ignored or refused to abide by rulings in Canada's favour from trade bodies.
They are the ones that won't play by the rules in case you still haven't noticed. And Mango Mussolini just snaps his tiny fingers and makes up new rules and shreds existing ones.

Trump should be seen as someone to work with, not against. Rookie’s mistake to elbows up against America. Trump could have definitely help with the Chinese tariff on Canola oil. But you chose to take on the president of the United States. It won’t end well for politicians and by virtue Canada to go up against America. 

Edited August 13, 2025 by paxamericana

[LinkSoul60]

Spot on and no more complicated than that....   The Incapable Orange One says he wants tariffs he gets them.  But of course Carney caved here, because of this long running dispute.  F*ck Trump.  Just another category they're highly dependant on so let him keep screwing them over with more inflation.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

The lumber pact lapsed in 2016.  There hasn’t been one since.   And I don’t think the lumber industry was clamouring for Canada to agree under the same terrible terms. 

But they are. They were happy with those terms and those are the terms they're operating under right now. The deal may have expired but it still being honored in practice.

So they're happy and there's no need to renegotiate anything. Well there wasn't until they got slapped in the face with tariffs. And now possibly more tariffs because carney didn't understand the nuances of what he was doing

[ExFlyer]

15 hours ago, CdnFox said:

awww little buddy, 

MEH.  more blather and banter

Read it and weep 

https://www.policyalternatives.ca/wp-content/uploads/attachments/The_Softwood_Lumber_Agreement.pdf

The Canadian Center for Policy  Alternatives.  is a non-partisan research institute producing research and analysis to help policy-makers, activists, and Canadians make informed decisions.

 

Just another useless post from you again denying the facts  LOL

Edited August 13, 2025 by ExFlyer