Carney's announcement to recognize a state of Palestine in September most ill-conceived imaginable.

[Venandi]

Hey Fly-baby... 5 square on the downvotes.

Do ya need to lick another limerick or have you and Herb already made up?

[Army Guy]

36 minutes ago, Aristides said:

As long nothing changes for the Palestinians and they are cooped up in places like Gaza with no hope, there will b something else to replace Hamas.

Bullshit, Belgium is surrounded on all sides and they seem to get along with everyone....And yes once Hamas is destroyed something will take it's place they to will face the same destruction, becasue they don't want peace they want war....now that they are getting that they are crying....this will continue until one is destroyed...Israel is doing the world a favor by eliminating these terrorist...

[I am Groot]

On 8/11/2025 at 4:09 PM, User said:

Nope... and from their perspective, as long as they can hide in their hole and ride this out, the more folks start pushing for statehood and call Israel evil for genocide..

I don't like Netanyahu, but he's quite on point when he said that Israel could have committed genocide any time they wanted to, and it wouldn't take much more than a day. 

People like to play games with words, but the reality of 'genocide' is not buillshit about sending native kids to schools or making war on an evil opponent. It's murdering people in huge numbers. And that's just not happening.

[I am Groot]

On 8/11/2025 at 5:20 PM, Aristides said:

The problem is there are over 2 million people who have been refugees all their lives many of them third generation.

They're only 'refugees' because the UN changed the definition of refugee. How is it that Palestinians living on 'Palestinian' land are considered refugees? Even after generations? The children and grandchildren of the Jews forced out of the surrounding Arab states who moved to Israel don't consider themselves refugees. Nor does the UN. Nor has the UN ever made any effort to get those surrounding states to take them back.

On 8/11/2025 at 10:54 PM, Aristides said:

I don't expect Israel to stop being a nation but denying Palestinians one of their own will just mean this endless cycle of killing will continue.

From what I have read and what I have heard from those who are over there, the first thing an independent Palestine would do is build the biggest army it can with the help of Iran and Qatar and attack Israel, probably with the help of Iran's Revolutionary Guards. 

So that's what you think will be the great solution?

[I am Groot]

On 8/12/2025 at 10:02 AM, Aristides said:

Gaza is wallin in on three sides an Israel controls the sea. It isn’t erroneous at all.

Why do you think Egypt walls them in?

On 8/12/2025 at 10:37 AM, Aristides said:

You just keep  confirming what I said. Over 80% of Gazans are people or the descendants of people who were forced out or fled what is now Israel in 1948.

Most of them weren't forced out. They fled, as instructed by Arab governments. They expected the Arabs to win, slaughter all the Jews, and then they'd be returning. Unfortunately for them, that didn't work out.

They're never going back. That isn't even open for debate. 

[I am Groot]

On 8/12/2025 at 2:28 PM, herbie said:

Australia has joined the call. 
I guess among English speaking countries only the USA is right and all the rest are wrong. As the same group here claims regardless of the subject being discussed.

I think you will find those countries you speak of are responding almost entirely to the Muslim voters in their own country and not out of any interest or concern for Palestine. The fact is, none of these countries gives a shit about Palestine. Like Carney, they're virtue signalling for the Muslim vote.

The US, unlike these other countries, has a lot more Jews than Muslims.

18 hours ago, eyeball said:

How many Australians or Canadians would tolerate immigrants and refugees taking over,

They seem to be tolerating it right now.

Edited August 13, 2025 by I am Groot

[I am Groot]

6 hours ago, eyeball said:

Nope, putting yourself in anothers shoes reveals a timeless truth.

No, it does not. There are no timeless truths. And like a lot of Western liberals, you are engaging in cultural relativism and insisting that all people everywhere think the same as you do and have the same priorities and desires as you do.

They don't.

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

As long nothing changes for the Palestinians and they are cooped up in places like Gaza with no hope, there will b something else to replace Hamas.

Cooped up? They used to be allowed to go into Israel for work. At one point, 40% of Palestinians worked inside Israel proper. Guess why that was stopped. Go ahead. Try.

[I am Groot]

A little-known, little-publicized event took place not that long ago. The organization that is associated with the UN that decides on what constitutes a famine quietly changed its definition just before declaring a famine in Gaza. They changed both the percentage required and the measurement standards. In both cases, they were lowered so Gaza would qualify.

The U.N.-affiliated watchdog group that recently declared a "worst-case scenario of famine" in Gaza quietly changed one of its key reporting metrics while doing so, making it easier to formally declare that there is a famine in the Hamas-controlled territory.

https://freebeacon.com/israel/un-backed-famine-watchdog-quietly-changed-standards-easing-way-to-declare-famine-in-gaza/

[Aristides]

20 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Why do you think Egypt walls them in?

Most of them weren't forced out. They fled, as instructed by Arab governments. They expected the Arabs to win, slaughter all the Jews, and then they'd be returning. Unfortunately for them, that didn't work out.

They're never going back. That isn't even open for debate. 

.So what is your solution? You say it isn't genocide but your words say otherwise. Many were forced out. If all the Palestinians stayed in what is now Israel, the population would be  40% Arab. Do you think Israel would stand for that? Do you think Egypt would want over 2 million refugees just dumped on them overnight? Of course not, that's why two states is the only solution that has a chance.

[herbie]

23 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

I think you will find those countries you speak of are responding almost entirely to the Muslim voters

Oh yes, they cater to the Muslim voters because there are no Jewish votes to worry about....
WTF are you trying to twist common sense backwards for? Can't defend your own opinion rationally?

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Aristides said:

As long nothing changes for the Palestinians and they are cooped up in places like Gaza with no hope, there will b something else to replace Hamas.

Then they should be crushed and it should be turned into a real prison. When they had freedom they were terrible, so if what you're saying is they will never reform then what choice is there?

[Aristides]

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Then they should be crushed and it should be turned into a real prison. When they had freedom they were terrible, so if what you're saying is they will never reform then what choice is there?

 

The median age in Gaza is 18. Half the people there were less than a year old when Hamas took power and half of the rest would have been too young to vote. You clowns say Israel isn't committing genocide then you say that's what they should be doing.

If your mentality is what they are up against, they really have no choice but to fight back as hard as they can.

Edited August 14, 2025 by Aristides

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Aristides said:

The median age in Gaza is 18. Half the people there were less than a year old when Hamas took power and half of the rest would have been too young to vote.

And? There's certainly not clamoring for an election. Recent polls have suggested that they approved of the attack of october 7th.

Sorry kiddo, you are represented by the government and their actions are something that you own and pay for with your blood. I mean I wasn't alive or a voting age when residential schools were a significant thing but somehow it's supposed to be something that I'm to pay for. I didn't put the Japanese in internment camps but once again was asked to pay for that

They accepted Hamas, they supported these activities, and now they're getting blown to small bite-sized pieces. Hopefully the survivors will get it through their head that if they turn their backs and allow her master run amok unchallenged it's them and their families who will pay the price, so don't do that

[Venandi]

10 hours ago, Aristides said:

You say it isn't genocide but your words say otherwise.

You may not want to hear this or even believe it, but, Israel's efforts to mitigate civilian casualties in a high density area of operations will stand as model for other countries in future operations of this kind. They've been fighting an entrenched enemy force in a densely populated area (about twice the size of Washington DC) who have deliberately, extensively, and illegally used human shields in layered defence.  

In comparison, genocide is dead easy and easy dead... it's as indiscriminate as it is efficient.

There's a reason this war has lingered for as long as it has and it's the very opposite of a manufactured genocide equation that can't be balanced with inflamed political rhetoric and downvotes from Fly-baby. 

As to the discussions of historical events long since rendered moot:

Just my opinion, but during my first two tours there I perceived the situation as an ethnic struggle over a small piece of land, there were political and territorial objectives which (I thought) could be negotiated over time and I say that because political objectives, by nature, usually can be if the will to do so is there. There were religious differences of course but that wasn't the issue that struck me as a key obstacle to peace.

That changed with Hamas and it created a brand new problem... political objectives were replaced with radical religious ones that utterly defy negotiation and render all of the previous missteps of history the domain of unproductive (but interesting) argument.

Instead of trying to breathe new life into the skeletons of the past a more direct approach to the issue at hand is resolving a simple equation with no simple solution.

Hamas seeks the destruction of the state of Israel and eradication of jews in order to build an Islamic state on the rubble. But, Israel isn't going anywhere and no amount of downvotes from Fly-baby or name calling from eyehole is going to change that dynamic.  

Due to the influence of Hamas, I don't see any solution with an implementation date prior to the passing of the current generation. In the interim, Palestinians need to acquire something they very much don't want to lose and see the potential for more in their own future. They need to see Hamas as an obstacle to achieving it and not a vehicle for providing it. 

Trump is not as far off target as some here might think, he just needs to dial out the reticle, tone down the rhetoric and act more presidential. I don't happen to think he's capable of doing that BTW and that's why the only thing I like about him is his wife.

 

Edited August 14, 2025 by Venandi

[I am Groot]

13 hours ago, herbie said:

Oh yes, they cater to the Muslim voters because there are no Jewish votes to worry about....
WTF are you trying to twist common sense backwards for? Can't defend your own opinion rationally?

Number of Jews in Canada:  335k
Number of Muslims in Canada: 2M

Number of Jews in France: 440k-500k
Number of Muslims in France: 6m-7m

Number of Jews in the UK: 312k
Number of Muslims in the UK:3.9M

Number of Jews in Australia: 117k
Number of Muslims in Australia: 813k

[I am Groot]

8 hours ago, Aristides said:

 

The median age in Gaza is 18. Half the people there were less than a year old when Hamas took power and half of the rest would have been too young to vote.

Carry that thought forward. This means they grew up in mosques influenced by Hamas, in schools whose curriculum was influenced by Hamas. They grew up indoctrinated with a ferocious, fanatic Islam. Their parents, who voted for Hamas, didn't.

Do you really think this new group is going to be less Islamist than their parents?!

8 hours ago, Aristides said:

You clowns say Israel isn't committing genocide then you say that's what they should be doing.

I think most of us define that term to mean the murder of a whole people. That's not what Israel has attempted or is attempting to do. Now, I realize that the Left has added in all sorts of things to that definition. I expect mere rudeness will soon qualify as genocide in the same way talking can be 'violent' and racism is entirely confined to white people. But we're not playing that game.

Also, there are really are no Palestinians. There is no such historic group. They have no unique culture, history, religion, speech, values, ethnicity, or race. They are ARABS. There is no difference between them and Jordanians or Egyptians. When Israel was born, calling an Arab there a Palestinian would likely get you punched. They are Arabs, and Arabs are not being genocided. This particular group of troublesome, fanatic Arabs can't be allowed to rule themselves. The West Bank should be given back to Jordan, who once formally annexed it. And yes, I realize Jordan wants nothing to do with these people either. Enormous bribes would be required. But those bribes would be cheaper than what constant wars cost. Take all the Jews out of the West Bank and ship them to Gaza in return for the Palestinians there going to the West Bank.

Problem solved.

8 hours ago, Aristides said:

If your mentality is what they are up against, they really have no choice but to fight back as hard as they can.

By raping and torturing more young girls?

[Aristides]

Who do we believe.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/how-many-palestinians-has-israels-gaza-offensive-killed-2025-03-24/

It shouldn't be a stretch to understand that if you bomb and shell the crap out of densely populated areas for 10 months you are going to kill a lot of innocent people. Because multiple families live in the same building, several generations are being wiped out by one bomb.

Religious fanaticism is a factor on both sides, with Hamas and the ultra right religious parties propping up Netanyahu.

[Aristides]

18 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Bullshit, Belgium is surrounded on all sides and they seem to get along with everyone....And yes once Hamas is destroyed something will take it's place they to will face the same destruction, becasue they don't want peace they want war....now that they are getting that they are crying....this will continue until one is destroyed...Israel is doing the world a favor by eliminating these terrorist...

Actually Belgium has its own internal divisions and partition into separate Flemish and Walloon states has been discussed. Belgium was in invaded and occupied during both world wars and has always been the invasion route for waring neighbours. Waterloo is in Belgium.

 

Edited August 14, 2025 by Aristides

[Army Guy]

44 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Actually Belgium has its own internal divisions and partition into separate Flemish and Walloon states has been discussed. Belgium was in invaded and occupied during both world wars and has always been the invasion route for waring neighbours. Waterloo is in Belgium.

 

Do they get along today ?, i mean if we are going back in history, almost every nation has had conflict....my point is Palestine has already been granted full control over Gaza, west bank...and yet somehow being granted recognition by a few western nations  is going to change what exactly...

[Aristides]

6 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Do they get along today ?, i mean if we are going back in history, almost every nation has had conflict....my point is Palestine has already been granted full control over Gaza, west bank...and yet somehow being granted recognition by a few western nations  is going to change what exactly...

They have never had full control over Gaza or the West Bank. Israel has always controlled who entered and leaved Gaza snd has allowed the displacement of Arabs in the West Bank to allow construction of Jewish settlements.

A few western nations?

https://edition.cnn.com/world/middleeast/countries-recognize-palestinian-state-intl-vis

[Army Guy]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

They have never had full control over Gaza or the West Bank. Israel has always controlled who entered and leaved Gaza snd has allowed the displacement of Arabs in the West Bank to allow construction of Jewish settlements.

A few western nations?

https://edition.cnn.com/world/middleeast/countries-recognize-palestinian-state-intl-vis

If they are exiting or entering Israel yes Israel has full control,like any other sovereign nation, Israel also controls what comes in through the sea side of the border, they are checking for weapons' and rockets...that kill Jews...Gaza also borders Egypt and they control who comes into their country as well...

Not going to deny, jews stealing Palestinian lands...but it is the price of dealing with terrorism is it not...I see most of europe hae not recognized them, and those that are going to do it soon, are they doing it to pi$$ off trump or they are concerned with palestinian people plight....recognition of a terrorist state sends the wrong message to the rest of the globe...and Canada should stop all aid and recognition..

[eyeball]

26 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Not going to deny, jews stealing Palestinian lands...but it is the price of dealing with terrorism is it not...

It is bizarre.

Giving pause to consider that stealing land might be what leads to terrorism is something you've never even tried is it?

It's so bizarre it's phenomenal.

[Aristides]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

If they are exiting or entering Israel yes Israel has full control,like any other sovereign nation, Israel also controls what comes in through the sea side of the border, they are checking for weapons' and rockets...that kill Jews...Gaza also borders Egypt and they control who comes into their country as well...

Not going to deny, jews stealing Palestinian lands...but it is the price of dealing with terrorism is it not...I see most of europe hae not recognized them, and those that are going to do it soon, are they doing it to pi$$ off trump or they are concerned with palestinian people plight....recognition of a terrorist state sends the wrong message to the rest of the globe...and Canada should stop all aid and recognition..

So those who say it is the world's largest prison are correct. 

So all the land they are stealing belongs to terrorists? 

Maintaining all Palestinians are terrostists is as stupid as saying all Jews are Zionists.

Edited August 15, 2025 by Aristides

[CdnFox]

59 minutes ago, eyeball said:

It is bizarre.

Giving pause to consider that stealing land might be what leads to terrorism is something you've never even tried is it?

It's so bizarre it's phenomenal.

The terrorism is a decision by the terrorist. Nothing gives rise to it. The Jews didn't steal the land they were pretty much deposited there and they've been there before. Well I can understand conflicts initially at this stage of the game there's absolutely no excuse.

The terrorists are the aggressors. The people you back are the ones that are responsible for the conflict and they are the ones paying the price as it should be.

[eyeball]

4 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

The Jews didn't steal the land they were pretty much deposited there...

The people you back are the ones that are responsible for the conflict and they are the ones paying the price as it should be.

We're not paying the price for having been instrumental in seeing to it that Jews were deposited in Palestine, Palestinians are.

We had ample opportunity, like our allies, to invite European Jewish refugees into Canada but I suppose it was only a decade before that we deposited a boatload of Jews back into Hitler's hands so...