Why is Canada such a mess in so many ways?

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Thats the thing about working or providing a service you get paid for it, and if millions get laid off then they will have to find something else to do, adapt or perish. People can't expect to sit at home and do nothing then get paid for it.... 

Yeah, well they'll probably just go out and just take what they need from wherever, whoever, whatever.

It'll be every man and woman for themselves...kids will just have to adapt or perish right?

[I am Groot]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

That's wrong. I'm taking about when millions of labourers have been laid off by AI and automation in the near future, near enough we should be planning for it now.

We are. By importing millions of low-skilled, military-aged male workers from violent, corrupt societies. 

That was what you wanted, right? 

 

2 hours ago, cougar said:

So we will have a society with a few masterminds who design the AI, the machines will do everything for them and the rest of us, all billions of people will perish?

We'll be given little box-like apartments in giant government housing complexes, and mandatory contraceptive treatment that can only be removed with government permission. And that permission will only be given to the worthy.

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

Did the horse perish once cars were invented ? 

Most of them.

[Moonlight Graham]

9 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Correct, they have not been in power but, they have not been any help either. They are either part of the solution or part of the problem and since no solutions have been forthcoming, the conservatives are part of the prob;em too.

And yes, the Canadian public sees that and therefore the conservatives have lost the last 4 elections.

The CPC won the popular vote in the 2019 and 2021 elections.  Liberals have more efficient vote distribution, not necessarily more popular.  The CPC has won the popular vote in 5 of the last 7 elections.

I think both parties have significant problems anyways, ideologically and otherwise.

[Moonlight Graham]

8 hours ago, blackbird said:

The conservatives have many solutions that make far more sense than liberals.

Why do you try to walk with one leg on each side of the fence sometimes?  You could be castrated.

Because the world isn't black and white.  The US and Canada are filled with trash parties that are very corrupt and filled with power-hungry ideological nutbars.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

Most of them.

The farmers and delivery people didn't tho, right?  The tech meant that more milk could be delivered and more veggies taken to market than before, but the jobs remained. 

Then we all got electricity and fridges became a thing and people didn't need milk delivered, they could go buy it a the market. And we got giant markets, markets that had everything in one place, a  SUPER market if you will.  Revolutionized food distribution. 

And still the farmers had work and still people were fully employed and so on. 

Tech changes how we do things and tech frees us up to do MORE things than just survive. But to date it sure hasn't made people any less relevant. 

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

We are. By importing millions of low-skilled, military-aged male workers from violent, corrupt societies. 

That was what you wanted, right? 

FFS...why can't you people ever pay attention? I've been saying repeatedly for YEARS now that we should be limiting our population growth because there were already too many people and not enough to go around.

When bottleneck gets tight and the waterhole gets smaller the animals usually get meaner. I guess it stands to reason many lose their shit as well.

 

[CdnFox]

38 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Because the world isn't black and white.  The US and Canada are filled with trash parties that are very corrupt and filled with power-hungry ideological nutbars.

Well lets stick with Canada. If we get into other countries or other times in history the conversation isn't practical. 

In Canada the conservatives as a party and i would argue that normally the ndp as a party (jaggers was the exception and the voters sorted him out),  are far less corrupt and are genuinely more focused on the needs of Canada.  this is demonstrable in several ways. 

The conservatives have shown they not only have better policy but are better at enacting that policy. And they do what they say they'll do.  The big criticism of harper was that he always does exactly what he said he was going to do, whether you want him to or not.   

Sure  all parties occasionally make mistakes or blow things, but for the most part the conservatives successfully move the country forward. 

Historically again and again the liberals do not. They will try to cover that fact up but it is abundantly clear.  Chretien claimed he balanced the books but in reality he downloaded the costs to the provinces and made them pay more, and stole 70 billion from UI while cutting benefits.  ANd we need not discuss what trudeau has done in the last 10 years. 

The CPC isn't perfect but with the CPC in charge Canada has had and would have had sound governance that genuinely improved the lives and fortunes of Canadians. 

Under the libs they have not.  And that is still true, carney has shown in his actions and in the house today that he is exactly the same as trudeau.  

[blackbird]

39 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Because the world isn't black and white.  The US and Canada are filled with trash parties that are very corrupt and filled with power-hungry ideological nutbars.

Man is a fallen being since Eve ate the forbidden fruit and gave some to Adam and he did eat.

Nobody is perfect since that time.   However, we still have to live in this fallen world.  We must live according to what God says in his written revelation, the Holy Bible.  

We live in a democracy and should know what is going on.  While nobody is perfect, it is still our responsibility to support the political party that we believe is the best.   None of the parties are perfect.  We know that.

But we still need a government to govern our country.  It doesn't help if voters can't decide which party is the least undesirable and the best one we can find.  All things considered, I find the Conservative Party the best choice and the only party that has a chance to defeat the less desirable Liberals.  However, that is my decision.  Everyone has to decide for themselves.

[eyeball]

21 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

The farmers and delivery people didn't tho, right?  The tech meant that more milk could be delivered and more veggies taken to market than before, but the jobs remained. 

The technology to automate the delivery of virtually everything by ship, rail, truck, robot, drone exists now.

Of course it stands to reason it won't be long before robots will be better at fixing robots than humans. In fact it's difficult to imagine there will be very many things a human can do that a robot or AI can't do better.

I can see why cranky old conservatives would choose to embrace their moral panic over people getting free stuff but it remains to be seen whether AI and the robots can overcome their outrage. I mean they'll just be programmed to produce with nary a concern for where it's going or being paid  right...right?

One thing we probably shouldn't do is let cranky old conservatives program AI.

Edited yesterday at 01:11 AM by eyeball

[CdnFox]

4 minutes ago, eyeball said:

The technology to automate the delivery of virtually everything by ship, rail, truck, robot, drone exists now.

and we still have employment  

 

Quote

Of course it stands to reason it won't be long before robots will be better at fixing robots than humans. In fact it's difficult to imagine there will be very many things a human can do that a robot or AI can't do better.

No, that's stupid.

Whenever technology does something better than people people find something else to do that only they can. It is the way of things. 

Quote

I can see why cranky old conservatives would choose to embrace their moral panic over people getting free stuff but it remains to be seen whether AI and the robots can overcome their outrage.

You can't see anything, blinded by hatred bigotry and lies as you are.

Quote

One thing we probably shouldn't do is let cranky old conservatives program AI.

Like i said, ai is about repeating the same stuff it's heard others say 10000 times based on selective input without any independent thought or analysis.  Of COURSE it's going to be left wing  

[Legato]

19 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Man is a fallen being since Eve ate the forbidden fruit and gave some to Adam and he did eat.

 

When Britain joined the EU (Common Market) the forbidden fruit was Cox's Pippins.

[blackbird]

The Williams Lake, BC council has apparently declared a state of emergency because of all the crime, anarchy, fires being set, and shoplifting with criminals, homeless and mentally ill people.  Not sure the town will have any tools or ability to do anything about it.

This situation could spread to other towns.

Edited yesterday at 01:20 AM by blackbird

[TreeBeard]

On 5/25/2025 at 4:02 PM, Moonlight Graham said:

How can it be the fault of people who have zero governing power the last 10 years.

Granted the CPC could improve the ideas they bring forward so that enough people will vote for them in order to win, but the buck stops with the Liberals.

Housing and policing are both provincial jurisdictions.  
 

People blaming the Feds feels like more “Trudeau’s fault” nonsense. 

Edited yesterday at 01:26 AM by TreeBeard

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, TreeBeard said:

Housing and policing are both provincial jurisdictions.  
 

People blaming the Feds feels like more “Trudeau’s fault” nonsense. 

Crime and judges are federal, but of course ignore the truth to deflect blame. 

And housing overlaps with the feds. Carney ran on it. Are you calling carney a liar?  

The truth means nothing to you people

[blackbird]

Trudeau legalized marijuana.  I heard that a psychiatrist in a book said marijuana can lead to mental problems.  It wouldn't surprise me.  That is another factor that would explain all the mentally-ill people and homelessness on the streets and the regular stabbings or killings by mentally ill offenders.  Just another thing in the long list of problems caused by the ten years of Liberal rule.  Vaping apparently also can contribute to suicide.

Edited yesterday at 02:58 AM by blackbird

[TreeBeard]

23 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Trudeau legalized marijuana.

Good. 
 

 

25 minutes ago, blackbird said:

I heard that a psychiatrist in a book said marijuana can lead to mental problems.  It wouldn't surprise me.  That is another factor that would explain all the mentally-ill people and homelessness on the streets and the regular stabbings or killings by mentally ill offenders. 

It’s definitely the reefer!   😂 

[Moonlight Graham]

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Well lets stick with Canada. If we get into other countries or other times in history the conversation isn't practical. 

In Canada the conservatives as a party and i would argue that normally the ndp as a party (jaggers was the exception and the voters sorted him out),  are far less corrupt and are genuinely more focused on the needs of Canada.  this is demonstrable in several ways. 

The conservatives have shown they not only have better policy but are better at enacting that policy. And they do what they say they'll do.  The big criticism of harper was that he always does exactly what he said he was going to do, whether you want him to or not.   

Sure  all parties occasionally make mistakes or blow things, but for the most part the conservatives successfully move the country forward. 

Historically again and again the liberals do not. They will try to cover that fact up but it is abundantly clear.  Chretien claimed he balanced the books but in reality he downloaded the costs to the provinces and made them pay more, and stole 70 billion from UI while cutting benefits.  ANd we need not discuss what trudeau has done in the last 10 years. 

The CPC isn't perfect but with the CPC in charge Canada has had and would have had sound governance that genuinely improved the lives and fortunes of Canadians. 

Under the libs they have not.  And that is still true, carney has shown in his actions and in the house today that he is exactly the same as trudeau.  

Harper was a far better PM than Trudeau.  I think the Liberals are very likely more corrupt than the CPC, at least comparing Chretien, Harper, and Trudeau govs.

The criticism for Harper, at least for me, was that towards the end of his run he was becoming too controlling and also undermining democracy by e.g. proroguing Parliament to avoid criticism in parliament over CPC scandals and ending committee investigations etc.  Unfortunately this kind of behaviour has been greatly exacerbated by the Liberals the last decade.

I also think the Harper enabled China to take advantage of certain aspects of our economy and other sectors and undermine national security.  The Liberals aren't any better though.

The NDP aren't very corrupt simply because they little political power.  Why would wealthy stakeholders pay off a party that doesn't have much power to do anything?

Anyways, I find the CPC and Liberals to be too ideological.  The Liberals are a much worse party, quite vile actually.

[Moonlight Graham]

4 hours ago, blackbird said:

Man is a fallen being since Eve ate the forbidden fruit and gave some to Adam and he did eat.

Nobody is perfect since that time.   However, we still have to live in this fallen world.  We must live according to what God says in his written revelation, the Holy Bible.  

We live in a democracy and should know what is going on.  While nobody is perfect, it is still our responsibility to support the political party that we believe is the best.   None of the parties are perfect.  We know that.

But we still need a government to govern our country.  It doesn't help if voters can't decide which party is the least undesirable and the best one we can find.  All things considered, I find the Conservative Party the best choice and the only party that has a chance to defeat the less desirable Liberals.  However, that is my decision.  Everyone has to decide for themselves.

It would be nice to have a government led by ethical and honourable people who prioritize serving their country and the interests of Canada and its citizens rather than their own power and greed.  I guess the forbidden fruit looks just too delicious for these goons.

Trudeau had the power to make our system better.  All he did was centralize his own power and tell everyone what to do while taking money and favours from any wealthy interest because it would give him a better shot at winning elections.  Carney has been off to a very bad start in the "centralize his own power" category.  And all the Liberal MP's bent the knee when their time was called to take a stand.  They're all cowards.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/article/liberals-vote-against-adopting-rules-to-allow-caucus-to-oust-leader/

[CdnFox]

12 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

The criticism for Harper, at least for me, was that towards the end of his run he was becoming too controlling and also undermining democracy by e.g. proroguing Parliament to avoid criticism in parliament over CPC scandals and ending committee investigations etc. 

Well that's not true,  he prorogued parliament to avoid an ndp lib takeover.  The libs and dips were talking about overthrowing him and forming gov't, and the "rule" is that if they do that BEFORE 6 months is up the gg will give them a chance and AFTER 6 months it goes back to an election if the gov't is defeated.  The theory being it's unlikely the voters would change their minds in less than 6 months. So his plan was to prorogue till longer than 6 months and then if they wanted to take him down they could face an election where they could run as a joint party or at least announce their intent to form one so the voters could choose. 

That is LITERALLY the opposite of undermining democracy.  That is forcing democracy on the other parties. 

Harper was a fairly controlling person but that is what it takes to be a prime minister. You dont' get there by being a wimp and harper didn't break the "rules" in that regard, he did what the job and what convention and history called for. 

Based on that critisizm how do you feel about the liberals proroguing parliament so justin could quit, they could hold a leadership race, and then install an unelected prime minister who could call the election when it suited him? Again, the cpc isn't perfect but he liberals are an order of magnitude worse 

9 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

  And all the Liberal MP's bent the knee when their time was called to take a stand.  They're all cowards.

That was acually a bit of a shock to me. I thought for sure they'd have learned their lesson from justin.  

But i guess what they learned was that they can be as horrible and corrrupt as they like and as long as they change leaders just before the next election they're good.  Liberal supporters are terrible people. 

[Moonlight Graham]

4 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Housing and policing are both provincial jurisdictions.  
 

People blaming the Feds feels like more “Trudeau’s fault” nonsense. 

For housing yes some of it is provincial jurisdiction, some of it municipal.  Some of it is also federal since they control some major demand-side factors like immigration.

For policing, again this is shared by all 3 levels of government, in many provinces anyways.  But the Criminal Code of Canada is controlled by the feds which codifies all criminal laws in Canada: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Code_(Canada) 

6 of the 9 current Supreme Court Justices were also nominated by Trudeau.

[Moonlight Graham]

6 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Well that's not true,  he prorogued parliament to avoid an ndp lib takeover.  The libs and dips were talking about overthrowing him and forming gov't, and the "rule" is that if they do that BEFORE 6 months is up the gg will give them a chance and AFTER 6 months it goes back to an election if the gov't is defeated.  The theory being it's unlikely the voters would change their minds in less than 6 months. So his plan was to prorogue till longer than 6 months and then if they wanted to take him down they could face an election where they could run as a joint party or at least announce their intent to form one so the voters could choose. 

That is LITERALLY the opposite of undermining democracy.  That is forcing democracy on the other parties.

He prorogued several times.  2009 is what i'm talking about:

"In 2009, Harper again asked the governor general to prorogue Parliament for two months. He argued that his government needed to consult with Canadians and businesses as it dealt with economic issues during the recession of 2008–09. However, the move was widely criticized as a tactic to give the government time to gain a majority on Senate committees. It was also seen as a way to avoid investigations into allegations that the government had ignored the torture of detainees during the War in Afghanistan. The 2009 episode led to a debate about whether governments were using prorogation as a political tool to further their own causes."

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/prorogation-in-canada#NotableProrogrations

6 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Based on that critisizm how do you feel about the liberals proroguing parliament so justin could quit, they could hold a leadership race, and then install an unelected prime minister who could call the election when it suited him?

Trudeau and the Liberals are garbage and will do just about anything to secure their own power.

6 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

That was acually a bit of a shock to me. I thought for sure they'd have learned their lesson from justin.  

But i guess what they learned was that they can be as horrible and corrrupt as they like and as long as they change leaders just before the next election they're good.  Liberal supporters are terrible people. 

Carney didn't allow a secret ballot.  The MP's were afraid of being punished for voting for the reforms, which they probably would have been.  They have no courage.  If you're not willing to risk your own job for the good of the country then you don't deserve to be an MP.  Jody Wilson-Raybould was one of the few that stood up to Trudeau and risked her job for the sake of ethics and our democracy.

[CdnFox]

45 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

He prorogued several times.  2009 is what i'm talking about:

"In 2009, Harper again asked the governor general to prorogue Parliament for two months. He argued that his government needed to consult with Canadians and businesses as it dealt with economic issues during the recession of 2008–09. However, the move was widely criticized as a tactic to give the government time to gain a majority on Senate committees. It was also seen as a way to avoid investigations into allegations that the government had ignored the torture of detainees during the War in Afghanistan. The 2009 episode led to a debate about whether governments were using prorogation as a political tool to further their own causes."

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/prorogation-in-canada#NotableProrogrations

Dude that is laughable. Every single gov't before harper did exactly the same thing, that is how the system is designed. That has NOTHING to do with bypassing democracy. 

Next you'll be saying that by opposing the gov't the opposition party is opposing democracy or the like.  What you're talking about is a fundimental part of the system and it's there for a reason and every single gov't uses it and all of them use it for that exact purpose on occasion.  That's PART of our system it's not AGAINST our system

There's lots of legit criticisms  of harper but that really isn't one of them. Breaking his word on income trusts? Sure.  The duffy scandal? Sure (tho it's hard to be mad about forcing someone to pay BACK taxpayers).  But proroguing parliment is a legit part of the game. I'Ve never heard of a gov't that DIDN'T use it (unless it lasted like 6 months)

Quote

Trudeau and the Liberals are garbage and will do just about anything to secure their own power.

Well that really didn't answer my question but sure. 

Quote

Carney didn't allow a secret ballot.  The MP's were afraid of being punished for voting for the reforms, which they probably would have been.  They have no courage.  If you're not willing to risk your own job for the good of the country then you don't deserve to be an MP.  Jody Wilson-Raybould was one of the few that stood up to Trudeau and risked her job for the sake of ethics and our democracy.

If you're not afraid to risk your job you don't run for the liberals.  

I have respect for the ndp voters even tho i disagree with them, both provincially and federally they've been willing to wipe their party out when it became corrupt. they saw jaggers for what he was and tossed him on the trash heap. 

Bloc voters, even tho i hate the idea of a party dedicated entirely to what's NOT best for canada and is best for a selfish few, at least are fairly honest and up front with what they want and what they'll do. 

But liberal voters? no amount of corruption turns their stomach. No amount of lies deters them.  No dishonesty is too great.  They are BAD people. Not just people with different opinions, they are bad people. They support corruption at any cost, they will reward it, and their party is a result of their horrible ethics. 

[Barquentine]

16 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Correct me if i'm wrong but eyeball is suggesting taking from the haves

He just pointed out the truth that the income gap is growing.

My life has mirrored yours almost exactly, but I believe 2 things can be true at the same time. Everyone should do all they can to support and advance themselves AND our society is rich enough to give help to those that need it.

[ExFlyer]

13 hours ago, CdnFox said:

... having weird fantasies about being in my head .....

Funny, you seem to spend all your time daydreaming .

 

You keep coming back with reasons that I am not LOL

If I am not, then why do you so vehemently deny it in every post???LOL

But I suspect your denial is a way for you to forget how much of a LOSER you are LOL

12 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Just because I know you're trolling doesn't mean I don't want to answer your nonsense.

OK...but at least make it a challenge for me.

You are limp fish LOL