Why NDP promises would fail

[blackbird]

Federal NDP leader Jagmeet Singh promises he would control certain food prices and rents and bring in various regulations to control things.  This is pure Socialism.

Socialism has proven to be a failure.  This article explains why.

"

Here’s are some excerpts of my 1995 essay “Why Socialism Failed”:

1. Socialism is the Big Lie of the twentieth century. While it promised prosperity, equality, and security, it delivered poverty, misery, and tyranny. Equality was achieved only in the sense that everyone was equal in his or her misery.

In the same way that a Ponzi scheme or chain letter initially succeeds but eventually collapses, socialism may show early signs of success. But any accomplishments quickly fade as the fundamental deficiencies of central planning emerge. It is the initial illusion of success that gives government intervention its pernicious, seductive appeal. In the long run, socialism has always proven to be a formula for tyranny and misery.

A pyramid scheme is ultimately unsustainable because it is based on faulty principles. Likewise, collectivism is unsustainable in the long run because it is a flawed theory. Socialism does not work because it is not consistent with fundamental principles of human behavior. The failure of socialism in countries around the world can be traced to one critical defect: it is a system that ignores incentives.

In a capitalist economy, incentives are of the utmost importance. Market prices, the profit-and-loss system of accounting, and private property rights provide an efficient, interrelated system of incentives to guide and direct economic behavior. Capitalism is based on the theory that incentives matter!

Under socialism, incentives either play a minimal role or are ignored totally. A centrally planned economy without market prices or profits, where property is owned by the state, is a system without an effective incentive mechanism to direct economic activity. By failing to emphasize incentives, socialism is a theory inconsistent with human nature and is therefore doomed to fail. Socialism is based on the theory that incentives don’t matter!

2. The strength of capitalism can be attributed to an incentive structure based upon the three Ps: (1) prices determined by market forces, (2) a profit-and-loss system of accounting and (3) private property rights. The failure of socialism can be traced to its neglect of these three incentive-enhancing components.

3. By their failure to foster, promote, and nurture the potential of their people through incentive-enhancing institutions, centrally planned economies deprive the human spirit of full development. Socialism fails because it kills and destroys the human spirit–just ask the people leaving Cuba in homemade rafts and boats [and those waiting in long lines today in Venezuela struggling, and often failing, to buy food].

4. The temptress of socialism is constantly luring us with the offer: “give up a little of your freedom and I will give you a little more security.” As the experience of this century has demonstrated, the bargain is tempting but never pays off. We end up losing both our freedom and our security.

Socialism will remain a constant temptation. We must be vigilant in our fight against socialism not only around the globe but also here in the United States.

The failure of socialism inspired a worldwide renaissance of freedom and liberty. For the first time in the history of the world, the day is coming very soon when a majority of the people in the world will live in free societies or societies rapidly moving toward freedom.

Capitalism will play a major role in the global revival of liberty and prosperity because it nurtures the human spirit, inspires human creativity, and promotes the spirit of enterprise. By providing a powerful system of incentives that promote thrift, hard work, and efficiency, capitalism creates wealth.

The main difference between capitalism and socialism is this: Capitalism works."

Why Socialism Always Fails | American Enterprise Institute - AEI

We see the failure of Socialism in our public health care system.  That is a prime example of the failure of Socialism.

I don't think many people realize that there are many people in Canada who are on long waiting lists for special medical care and many have died on waiting lists.  There are also millions of Canadians that don't have their own family doctor.  Emergency rooms often close.  People also don't realize that many emergency rooms are not properly staffed with qualified doctors.

It is just not possible to staff them properly, especially in smaller communities.  Many small communities do not have enough doctors.

All of these problems are the result of Socialism.  Government trying to provide free services for every individual fully funded by taxpayers.  But government is under tremendous political pressure to fund all kinds of things.  Therefore what they budget for the health care system is a political decision which is weighed against all the other demands for funding; not a what is required decision.

 

 

Edited Saturday at 01:55 PM by blackbird

[eyeball]

Meanwhile...

Canadians have better health outcomes than Americans, with longer life expectancies, lower infant mortality rates and of course lower costs.

 

[ironstone]

27 minutes ago, eyeball said:

and of course lower costs.

Lower costs? Are you sure about that? Certainly not for the price of housing.

 

[eyeball]

8 minutes ago, ironstone said:

Lower costs? Are you sure about that?

Yes I am.

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Meanwhile...

Canadians have better health outcomes than Americans, with longer life expectancies, lower infant mortality rates and of course lower costs.

 

I don't know about that.  Funny how people who don't want to fix our failing health care system always claim those who question the public system want the American system.  I never suggested we should copy the American system.

There are some systems in Europe that are better than the failing Canadian system.

If you want to talk about life expectancies, you should also consider the fact that thousands of Canadians died on waiting lists in Canada in recent years.

Do a search and compare the life expectancies in various European countries.

Maybe we should be trying a mixture of public and private systems.   I know the diehard leftist NDP abhor that idea and fight against any kind of private health care being used alongside the public system.  But that is blind dogmatism and is putting ideology before the welfare of the people.

Costs of health care are enormous in Canada.  Canada pays tens of billions of dollars in each province.  You don't see how you pay it because the government pays for it out of our taxes.  But we still pay for it.

Can you prove we pay less than many other countries in Europe for example.  Or are you just spouting a false claim?

 

45 minutes ago, eyeball said:

54 minutes ago, ironstone said:

Lower costs? Are you sure about that?

Yes I am.

Just because you say so.

[Queenmandy85]

I released I was having a stroke last Sunday morning around 9 AM. The ambulance had me in Royal University Hospital emergency in 20 minutes. I began assessment immedialty and over the next 2 days, I had a CT scan and 2 MRI's. It was caused by a small brain bleed and a full recovery is expected. When it happened, a realized I was unable to real words, but numbers were fine.  I could not have been able to type this 5 days ago. (Spell Check helps 👍) I am the luckyest man alive, thanks to Canada's healthcare system.

My point is, I received rapid professional  care, and my care will continue as an outpatient for months. If I had to pay for any one it, I would be bankrupt. My only expence was the ambulance. We are blessed in Canada with our healthcare system.

[Barquentine]

6 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

My point is, I received rapid professional  care, and my care will continue as an outpatient for months. If I had to pay for any one it, I would be bankrupt. My only expence was the ambulance. We are blessed in Canada with our healthcare system.

I and members of my family have had similar experiences with our health system. When it's immediately serious we get great medical care, at low expense.

[blackbird]

13 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I released I was having a stroke last Sunday morning around 9 AM. The ambulance had me in Royal University Hospital emergency in 20 minutes. I began assessment immedialty and over the next 2 days, I had a CT scan and 2 MRI's. It was caused by a small brain bleed and a full recovery is expected. When it happened, a realized I was unable to real words, but numbers were fine.  I could not have been able to type this 5 days ago. (Spell Check helps 👍) I am the luckyest man alive, thanks to Canada's healthcare system.

My point is, I received rapid professional  care, and my care will continue as an outpatient for months. If I had to pay for any one it, I would be bankrupt. My only expence was the ambulance. We are blessed in Canada with our healthcare system.

I am glad you had good care and are recovering well.  May God bless you as you continue to recover.

Unfortunately not everyone has the same good experience with our health care system.

Thousands of Canadians have died on waiting lists in Canada in the last few years.

Millions do not have a family doctor.

I know someone who went into the ER with heart attack who should have been given a clot buster right away but the doctor didn't give it and the person's heart was seriously damaged and only pumps about 50% of the blood of a normal heart.  This has affected the person's life in a serious way.

I know someone else who went in for a heart procedure whose heart was damaged in the procedure and this has had serious negative affects on the person's life.

I know of someone who was sent across the border into the U.S. for cancer treatments because they do not have enough treatment facilities in the province.  This is common.

It is common to see ER closures in various towns around the province for one or two nights and people needing emergency care having to be driven an hour or two to another city.

Not everyone receives the good care that they should. 

In the town I live in, many people cannot get a family doctor because of the shortage of doctors.  They must either go to the walk-in clinic or the ER.  If they go to the walk-in clinic, they must arrive at least an hour and a half before it opens because the clinic is only open for two hours, twice a day, M - F.   IN that two hours they will only take in 12 patients.  The visit is kind of brief and feels like you are being rushed.  Twelve patients in two hours means you have typically ten minutes in to deal with the problem.  Usually you can only be seen for one problem. 

If you go to the ER, you could be required to wait for eight hours to see a doctor in some occasions. 

The system is certainly not providing equally good care for everyone.

 

Edited Saturday at 06:30 PM by blackbird

[Barquentine]

2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Unfortunately not everyone has the same good experience with our health care system.

You can find these negative examples in the US as well.

The best countries in the world are capitalist with social programs, even the US, though it lags behind on most metrics.

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

Canadians have better health outcomes than Americans, with longer life expectancies,

Life expectancies cannot be strictly determined by the health care system.  Most western countries have life expectancies around the upper 70s to low eighties.   

There are many factors that affect life expectancy.  Things such as the climate, the population, the standard of living of people, the type of environment they live in, the type of work they do,  the number of people dying from drug addiction, alcoholism, smoking, over weight, the level and type of crime, the number of motor vehicle accidents, education etc.  There are many reasons why people die and these deaths for any cause are included in the calculation for life expectancy.  The kind of health care is just one factor out of many.

Even medical assistance in dying (MAID) which is more than 16,000 people per year in Canada now will be another factor that lowers the overall life expectancy calculation of Canadians.  

Edited Saturday at 06:51 PM by blackbird

[blackbird]

25 minutes ago, Barquentine said:

You can find these negative examples in the US as well.

The best countries in the world are capitalist with social programs, even the US, though it lags behind on most metrics.

That sounds like a oversimplification of the subject.  It does not acknowledge the many serious problems we have with the public health care system in Canada.  It just kind of sounds like a cover up.

[herbie]

How many points did the essaY drop for 'begging the question" using your conclusion as the argument for itself?

Socialism is bad, mmmkay. Doesn't require arguement or discussion, right?

[ironstone]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I released I was having a stroke last Sunday morning around 9 AM. The ambulance had me in Royal University Hospital emergency in 20 minutes. I began assessment immedialty and over the next 2 days, I had a CT scan and 2 MRI's. It was caused by a small brain bleed and a full recovery is expected. When it happened, a realized I was unable to real words, but numbers were fine.  I could not have been able to type this 5 days ago. (Spell Check helps 👍) I am the luckyest man alive, thanks to Canada's healthcare system.

My point is, I received rapid professional  care, and my care will continue as an outpatient for months. If I had to pay for any one it, I would be bankrupt. My only expence was the ambulance. We are blessed in Canada with our healthcare system.

Wishing you a very speedy recovery!

[Gaétan]

Could you tell the leader of the NDP to consult a naturopath before putting a cap on essential foodstuffs because he should not put a cap on the price of milk and bread, but rather triple the price so that citizens do not consume this rubbish.

[CdnFox]

10 hours ago, eyeball said:

Meanwhile...

Canadians have better health outcomes than Americans, with longer life expectancies, lower infant mortality rates and of course lower costs.

 

Nope. 

Lower costs is accurate and lower infant mortality is accurate but by and large we have far worse health outcomes. 

More die due to lack of care even tho we all have coverage. More suffer far longer with horrible chronic pain and often die without ever getting treatment. 

And life expectancy in the states has more to do with their choices of diet and nothing to do with health care. 

Meanwhile we have less choice and vastly more people cant' even get a doctor. 

There's pros and cons to both sides but you're quite wrong saying we get better results

[eyeball]

22 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Nope. 

Yup.

30 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

There's pros and cons to both sides but you're quite wrong saying we get better results

We get them where it matters - cost, life expectancy and infant mortality.

32 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

More die due to lack of care even tho we all have coverage. More suffer far longer with horrible chronic pain and often die without ever getting treatment. 

Bullshit. Prove it.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Yup.

Nope. Not even close. 

Oh and look, no cites yet again. 

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

We get them where it matters - cost, life expectancy and infant mortality.

That's not where it matters and life expectancy isn't an issue of healthcare, it's an issue of bad decisions with diet for the most part. 

And 4 more years of life that's spent in abject pain and suffering isn't much of a 'perk'.  And in canada more people die waiting to get care than in the us. 

So if you eat right and exercise which canadians do you live longer but if you actually get sick in canada you're more likely to die before you get the treatment you need. 

Sorry kid. THat's a fail. 

Quote

Bullshit. Prove it.

Says the guy who hasn't provided a single cite  

15,474 Canadians Died Waiting for Health Care in 2023-24 - SecondStreet.Org

More than 74,000 Canadians have died on wait lists since 2018: report | National Post

Health care Canada study: Patient shares wait times ordeal

A noteable quote:

Melanie Leeson of Cobble Hill, B.C., says she too had a close call. Leeson, who considers herself a “medical refugee,” says she had to travel to the United States to get treatment for an aggressive ovarian cancer because of obstacles to getting the care she needed in Canada.

“You can’t get the help you need in a timely manner, or you can’t get the more advanced help that would help save your life,” Leeson told CTVNews.ca. “You’re just a person that has to look after their own health and figure it all out and do it while you’re sick, which is brutal.”

Leeson adds that it took 111 days to get treatment after her diagnosis, much longer than the recommended four weeks.

 

As you can see massive numbers of Canadians die waiting for care.  In the states that really doesn't happen, the problem there is people not being able to afford care. So lets look at that. 

USA

Lack of Insurance to Blame for Almost 45,000 Deaths: Study - PNHP

 SO - 45 thousand out of a population of about 400 million.   Vs 15 thousand for our population of 40 million. 

It's not even close, about .375 for canada and .113 for the states. About 3 times as many Canadians will die waiting for care vs Americans who couldn't access care. 

 

Once again i was right and you were wrong. Once again i provided actual proof while you provided nothing. 

Once again you've embarrassed yourself because you know nothing but speak as if you do.  Hope you enjoyed that cough syrup. 

[Barquentine]

9 hours ago, CdnFox said:

More die due to lack of care even tho we all have coverage. More suffer far longer with horrible chronic pain and often die without ever getting treatment.

Proof?

  How do you get statistics for the US. A lot of poor people probably don't even bother trying to get care because they can't afford it. That won't show up in statistics.

[Barquentine]

9 hours ago, CdnFox said:

More die due to lack of care even tho we all have coverage. More suffer far longer with horrible chronic pain and often die without ever getting treatment.

Proof?

  How do you get statistics for the US. A lot of poor people probably don't even bother trying to get care because they can't afford it. That won't show up in statistics.

PS: I jumped the gun. Didn't see your statistics. However I stand by this post and don't believe the US statistics for the reason given.

[Barquentine]

As well as a higher rate of opiate deaths in the US, meaning more people self-medicating, not using the medical system.

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Barquentine said:

Proof?

 

Already posted. Prove me wrong instead of constantly demanding proof without ever providing any of your own for anything

Quote

How do you get statistics for the US. A lot of poor people probably don't even bother trying to get care because they can't afford it. That won't show up in statistics.

That literally shows up in the statistics. 

Quote

PS: I jumped the gun. Didn't see your statistics. However I stand by this post and don't believe the US statistics for the reason given.

That is stupid. There's tonnes of research done on it in the us. I didn't even cherry pick a low year or anything,  And it's not close. 

 GIVE ME PROOF!!!!

here's proof

I DON"T LIKE THAT PROOF SO I"M GOING TO DENY IT BECAUSE IT DOES NOT FIT MY NARRATIVE!!!

Sigh. You lefties. Always denying the science. 

Edited Sunday at 04:44 PM by CdnFox

[eyeball]

6 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Already posted.

Already posted? Figures lie and liars figure...

From your source...

The report is the latest “Died on a Waiting List” policy brief from SecondStreet since the conservative-leaning organization began tracking wait-list deaths in the spring of 2018. Since then, the think tank has counted 74,677 cases where Canadians passed away while waiting for treatments. These range from potentially life-saving ones, such as heart operations or cancer therapy, to life-enhancing ones, such as cataract surgeries and hip replacements.

Dying while ON a waiting list is not the same as dying BECAUSE they were on a waiting list. 

This sounds suspiciously like, I should say exactly like, the schtick used to accuse governments of inflating COVID deaths to pump the fear - alleging that authorities counted anyone who died that had both COVID and a co-morbidity counted as a COVID death.

Like I said figures lie and liars figure and there just ain't no cure for it.

Edited Sunday at 11:03 PM by eyeball

[CdnFox]

36 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Already posted? Figures lie and liars figure...

You do both.  You're ambi-dishonest.  But you never cite. 

Quote

 

From your source...

The report is the latest “Died on a Waiting List” policy brief from SecondStreet since the conservative-leaning organization began tracking wait-list deaths in the spring of 2018. Since then, the think tank has counted 74,677 cases where Canadians passed away while waiting for treatments. These range from potentially life-saving ones, such as heart operations or cancer therapy, to life-enhancing ones, such as cataract surgeries and hip replacements.

 

Yep.  As noted i'm correct. 

It's exactly what i said. 

And sorry the majority of that is urgent care. Cancer treatments etc. 

People spend their lives waiting for critical surgery but don't get it, many die from it and some die in agony waiting. 

Sorry to prove you wrong AGAIN kiddo.  But hey if you have some other numbers lets see.  YOU were the one who claimed i was wrong so post some facts. 

Here's bc alone:

More than 1,400 hospital ER closures 'damning indictment' of B.C. Health: Opposition - The Chilliwack Progress

Emergency room death highlights Canadian healthcare crisis | Canada | The Guardian

But not just bc

In a year of ER closures, N.L. sees 24 per cent jump in emergency department deaths - Powell River Peak

 

ANyway i could fill a page or three.

Canadians die waiting for critical care at a vastly higher rate than the us. Prove me wrong.  

 

[CdnFox]

10 hours ago, Barquentine said:

As well as a higher rate of opiate deaths in the US, meaning more people self-medicating, not using the medical system.

Kid,  it has NOTHING to do with self medicating. It has to do with people wanting to get high. You're now just making shit up at random (no cites to prove why they od i note) 

Pathetic. 

 

[eyeball]

43 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Yep.  As noted i'm correct. 

It's exactly what i said. 

That people died from being on a waiting list? It doesn't say that at all. It simply says they died while on a waiting list. Your source makes no distinction between two distinctly different things.

I prefer to go by my own experience. During COVID both my wife and I were diagnosed with critical conditions that needed surgery. I waited two months and my wife waited three.

19 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Lack of Insurance to Blame for Almost 45,000 Deaths: Study - PNHP

 SO - 45 thousand out of a population of about 400 million.   Vs 15 thousand for our population of 40 million. 

More bullshit. No one in Canada dies from a lack of insurance.