Redeploy Spare Industrial Capacity to Major Infrastructure Program

[Zeitgeist]

14 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Canada has burned everything I ever swore to defend and uphold with my life as necessary, to the ground

as a result I no longer feel anything in my heart for Canada,

there's no coming back from that, it's not my Canada anymore

I don't even watch hockey anymore, I don't even root for the Leafs anymore,

Canada is the Post National State now, merely a tax jurisdiction in a globalized economy

and it was Canada which imposed those terms upon me,

if others are keen to kill & die for American Woke Progressivism ; Remember Sankofa Square ?

be my guest, it's not my problem

Well that’s the cultural side of why we’re vulnerable.  It’s not just about military, resource development, etc.  Our own government has thrown Canada under the bus. To me that’s the Liberals’ biggest fail, though the attempts at restricting free speech and protests are tied for a close second. 

[Dougie93]

6 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

But there are conservatives that have sympathy and agree with much of trump said....until recently when he slapped us in the face.

I never endorsed Trump and I did not vote for him,

I've known MAGA Republicans long before Trump showed up and called it MAGA

I've known MAGA Republicans since they were still Democrats railing against George W. Bush

this movement has been coalescing for a generation now, I first encountered it twenty years ago,

they've always rejected me as being a "Neocon" because I am a Reaganite / Thacherite, child of the Cold War,

the main dispute therein was that they were protectionists and I was a free trader,

I've been arguing against MAGA Republican protectionism for almost two decades,

but there was no dissuading them, they were utterly committed to it,

they were crazy for tariffs before Trump showed up and jumped on the bandwagon,

I observed how they began to see Putin as an ally and Europe as the enemy,

furthermore I observed them becoming increasingly hostile towards Canada,

there was literally nobody on earth, not even any Democrat, whom they despised more than Justin Trudeau,

so none of this which is happening now is surprising to me,

it's not even Trump who is driving it, rather he is just pandering to his base

[Dougie93]

12 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

 Our own government has thrown Canada under the bus.

Indeed, but that was the last straw for me,

after decades of fighting against it, I simply ran out of fervour for the fight,

first of all when Trudeau said Post National State with no core identity ;

I didn't have an argument against that, I had to concede that it was true,

then "White Supremacist Genocide !"  broke the back,

Canadians did not resist that, I looked around and saw that Canadians were not going to fight that,

Victoria Hanover & John MacDonald torn down into the mire, the colours at half mast for six months,

and the overwhelming majority of the Canadian population just shrugged,

that was the threshold where I had to concede;  okay, Canada, you win,

enjoy your comeuppance when it comes, but me, I'm moving on from trying to save you from yourselves

[Dougie93]

 

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

  It’s not just about military,

that's all that I would advocate for at this juncture,

not for Canada, just for the troops in the ranks,

having served through the Decade of Darkness,

I know what it's like to be a troop desperately trying to hold on as Canada throws you to the wolves,

so I will still vote for whomever I think is going to spend the most on the military,

ironically tho, I think that would actually be the Liberals

because in fact, nobody spent more on the military in the last twenty years than Paul Martin & Justin Trudeau

Stephen Harper had his big chance, but all I got out of that was TAPV,  6 AOPS & 2 AORs ; meh

Justin Trudeau has actually ordered more kit in the last year than Canada has ordered in decades,

just to appease the Americans of course, but that is in fact the only reason Canada ever buys kit

nobody has done more to prod Canada into more military spending than Donald Trump,

Canada couldn't have cared less about national security until Donald Trump came along;

chaos is a ladder

Edited March 15 by Dougie93

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

So you’re contradicting yourself.  On one hand you say the U.S. can crush us at any moment economically, yet you cite our electricity and oil.  Which is it?

Oh? When did I say that???

I think you are misquoting.

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

I never endorsed Trump and I did not vote for him,

I...

And exactly where did I say you did??

[suds]

3 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

so what is it that I would even be fighting against the Americans for ?

To reserve the right in determining our own destiny. But instead of getting into a big snit over it, I'd tell the Americans we appreciate the offer. Thanks, but no thanks.

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, suds said:

To reserve the right in determining our own destiny. But instead of getting into a big snit over it, I'd tell the Americans we appreciate the offer. Thanks, but no thanks.

I determine my own destiny regardless of Canada,

as a dual citizen, I can come & go as I please, right of return in both directions,

neither the Canadian government nor the American government has any quarrel with me,

as I obey the laws, uphold the constitutions & pay my taxes in both jurisdictions

[suds]

3 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

I'm not part of this collective, whatever it is you believe it to be,

I did in effect what Canada told me to do ;

stop being British, we're not British anymore, become a Globalized citizen, Citoyen du Monde

now all of a sudden Canada wants to take that back ?  Suddenly Canada is waving the War of 1812 in my face ?

sorry, Canada;  too late now

It is a bit hypocritical isn't it? First they're telling us we don't have a culture anymore, but now it's time to rally round the flag? Did anyone tell the Quebecois to stop being French? I've never bought into any of this post national shit.

3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I determine my own destiny regardless of Canada,

as a dual citizen, I can come & go as I please, right of return in both directions,

neither the Canadian government nor the American government has any quarrel with me,

as I obey the laws, uphold the constitutions & pay my taxes in both jurisdictions

Personally, I think we should cut that dual citizenship crap out.

[Dougie93]

19 minutes ago, suds said:

It is a bit hypocritical isn't it? First they're telling us we don't have a culture anymore, but now it's time to rally round the flag? Did anyone tell the Quebecois to stop being French? I've never bought into any of this post national shit.

I simply take Canada at its word, when Canada in effect told me to f*ck off, because I am a WASP

fair enough I suppose, but I'm not rallying around the flag in the wake of that,

Edited March 15 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

8 minutes ago, suds said:

Personally, I think we should cut that dual citizenship crap out.

hence why Mark Carney is my guy ; three passport holding British - Irish - Canadian Citoyen du Monde

that's my people, Globalist free traders ; God save Ireland, God save the King

[herbie]

5 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

• Canada East and other pipelines that are not U.S.-bound
• refineries to produce gasoline using Alberta heavy crude

So Mr. Conservative wants to use public funds so business doesn't have to?
What a Marxist, communist, socialist, liberal, leftist idea?

Why not pay for my office space too so I can profit more too?

[Zeitgeist]

7 minutes ago, herbie said:

So Mr. Conservative wants to use public funds so business doesn't have to?
What a Marxist, communist, socialist, liberal, leftist idea?

Why not pay for my office space too so I can profit more too?

True, let’s instead do nothing except continue your government payouts and let our economy collapse until the Yanks run it and cut all your freebees.  

[CdnFox]

5 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Rather than allowing mass layoffs and shutdowns to take place due to tariff-related reduced U.S. demand for our steel, aluminum, and other products, Canada should seize the opportunity to modernize its infrastructure, including (but not limited to) the following:

• high speed rail along the Quebec-Windsor corridor
• increased military production (perhaps including replacing the F-35's, apart from the 16 already purchased, with made-in-Canada options)
• Canada East and other pipelines that are not U.S.-bound
• refineries to produce gasoline using Alberta heavy crude
• incentivize Canadian companies to upgrade facilities (helping improve productivity)

This is a much better long and short-term strategy for transitioning from dependence on the U.S. than simply paying people to stay home as they are thrown out of jobs and production is slashed.

Well I think you're on the right track. They can't tariff steal that's being used in Canada that's for sure

And building out our infrastructure makes us more attractive for future investment and improves provincial revenues

Edited March 15 by CdnFox

[Zeitgeist]

18 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Well I think you're on the right track. They can't tariff steal that's being used in Canada that's for sure.

Yup and it’s a good opportunity to boost our productivity. Not all of it has to be on the taxpayers either.  We could do some toll infrastructure, especially where there’s already untolled parallel routes.  The reality is that the government will do a major payout to impacted businesses and laid off workers, so why not build something instead? Save the businesses and jobs through a public works program.

It gives us time to find new markets for our goods. Ultimately it’s a major investment in our economy and future, because we’ll be able to refine our own oil and pipe it to large makers like Southern Ontario.  We’ll be all set to send our own LNG to Europe at $14 a unit instead of $4 sending it south where the Yanks are reselling it at a profit out of their LNG terminals.

I also think we need to look more seriously at domestic manufacturing and international partnerships.  To do all of this with the most efficiency and value-add, we need the best infrastructure.

Edited March 15 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

26 minutes ago, herbie said:

So Mr. Conservative wants to use public funds so business doesn't have to?
What a Marxist, communist, socialist, liberal, leftist idea?

socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor

no passaran, Commandante

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

I simply take Canada at its word, when Canada in effect told me to f*ck off, because I am a WASP

fair enough I suppose, but I'm not rallying around the flag in the wake of that,

Canada never told you to FO becasue you are a WASP.

Maybe it told you to FO because of the dick you are and keep on claiming Canada is British and posting all those BS videos??? LOL

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

hence why Mark Carney is my guy ; three passport holding British - Irish - Canadian Citoyen du Monde

that's my people, Globalist free traders ; God save Ireland, God save the King

And he is renouncing all but the Canadian one.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mark-carney-renounce-citizenship-1.7472421

You are claiming to be American.... God save the King ....meaning the self proclaimed one ....Trump??? LOL.

Edited March 15 by ExFlyer

[Dougie93]

40 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

And he is renouncing all but the Canadian one.

ah well, there goes my reason to vote for him.

I'll just go back to ignoring the election;  not my problem

[herbie]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

True, let’s instead do nothing except continue your government payouts and let our economy collapse until the Yanks run it

So you're more like an actual liberal, social credit type person that thinks that if it's best for the country, it doesn't matter what the ideological label attached is? Sounds too much like common sense!
Like. not opposed to when the American owned ferry company, the private health insurers, the small private telcos and hydro outfits, railroads, etc. can't or won't provide the levels of service needed, you'd take them over too? WAC Bennett's 'free enterprise' party ring a bell?

Not a true MAGA type that would rather reject a cure for your cancer because Communist China invented it?

[suds]

7 minutes ago, herbie said:

So you're more like an actual liberal, social credit type person that thinks that if it's best for the country, it doesn't matter what the ideological label attached is? Sounds too much like common sense!
Like. not opposed to when the American owned ferry company, the private health insurers, the small private telcos and hydro outfits, railroads, etc. can't or won't provide the levels of service needed, you'd take them over too? WAC Bennett's 'free enterprise' party ring a bell?

Not a true MAGA type that would rather reject a cure for your cancer because Communist China invented it?

It sounds a lot like Roosevelt's New Deal. You do what you have to do depending on the circumstances.

[PIK]

6 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

again, think about Poland in the Second World War ; sometimes you're just in the wrong place at the wrong time ;

with no good options for fighting,

Canada is in no man's land between America & China, like Poland was caught between Germany & Russia,

I don't have a solution to that problem ; it's Kobayashi Maru

basically Canada will just have to hope that America changes course at some point soon

Just have to hold out, till Trump is gone.

[ExFlyer]

56 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

ah well, there goes my reason to vote for him.

I'll just go back to ignoring the election;  not my problem

Nope, it sure ain't now that we know your King is Trump LOL

Personally, the one that decides to abolish dual citizenship gets my vote. You are either one or the other, not both.

[Zeitgeist]

30 minutes ago, herbie said:

So you're more like an actual liberal, social credit type person that thinks that if it's best for the country, it doesn't matter what the ideological label attached is? Sounds too much like common sense!
Like. not opposed to when the American owned ferry company, the private health insurers, the small private telcos and hydro outfits, railroads, etc. can't or won't provide the levels of service needed, you'd take them over too? WAC Bennett's 'free enterprise' party ring a bell?

Not a true MAGA type that would rather reject a cure for your cancer because Communist China invented it?

The problem that the U.S. is going to run into is the automation and AI revolution, the realization that the manufacturing sector Trump wants to bring back doesn’t employ as many people and is reliant on cheap inputs: low energy, resource, and labour costs, as well as local availability and delivery infrastructure.  Sure you can bring some of it back, but there has to be a business case for it apart from artificial tariffs imposed arbitrarily, which ultimately raise the cost of doing business and make the country less competitive.

The scary part of DOGE is that there may not be other jobs for those fired people because people just aren’t as needed for many jobs.  Government will have to play some kind of role helping people to participate in the economy and earn a living.  At least building infrastructure helps make your industry and country more productive and innovative.  Otherwise we may end up paying people to do nothing.

Imposing tariffs that break down supply chains and destroy businesses in the hope that 1980’s Reaganite America will reconstitute itself is a gamble that could very well result in throwing people out of work and eliminating industry long term.

Since we didn’t start this fight and are now forced to adapt, we basically have to make the most of our resources, people, and public finances.  MAGA and Liberal and even Conservative are just brands used by politicians proposing policies to get elected. The real issues remain the same: What policies are going to generate wealth and raise living standards for the majority of people?  It’s not even that lofty anymore.  It’s more like, How do we keep people employed and maintain a large middle class with decent living standards as good as we’ve had in the past?

Edited March 15 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, ExFlyer said:

Personally, the one that decides to abolish dual citizenship gets my vote.

I'm just going to keep lording my dual citizenship over Canadians in the meantime,

lord knows the Canadian Zoomers desperately wish that they had an American parent;

then they wouldn't be stuck competing with South Asians for the jobs at Tim Horton's,

Canada is fine if you are a wealthy land owner like me, but if not, it's a brutal slog

[Dougie93]

7 minutes ago, PIK said:

Just have to hold out, till Trump is gone.

it's not actually impeding me in any way,

I don't rely upon Canadian exports for my prosperity,

and other than my modest estate, I'm not invested in Canada,