betsy Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 (edited) 1 hour ago, blackbird said: I know of course the Liberals (or the anti-Semitic NDP) would never contribute to a voluntary relocation of the Palestinians because they have no use for Israel. Maybe a Conservative government would be more helpful. Yes, he already has. Canada has taken in many of them. The bring their conflict here. I have posted a possible alternative to a 2-state solution in another thread: Perhaps, we can add Canada, and other nations to the list, since I'm sure many are feeling angst over the optic of "ethnic cleansing" in Gaza. here is my suggestion: Israel, USA and the billionaires of the USA all contribute to provide each Gazan family with an amount of money to voluntarily relocate, and start a new life. I wonder how many Gazans are so tired of the war that goes back for generations, not to mention deplore being under HAMAS .................and are only too willing to move? Needless to say, Hamas members are excluded from this deal. They can stay in Gaza and wait for whatever happens next, for all I care! Furthermore.................we all have to acknowledge that GAZA, is not habitable. It's only HUMANE to find a way for Palestinians to have a place to settle in. Palestinians are trapped in it......if other neighboring Arab nations doesn't provide a way out for them, and absorb them into their nation(s). Arab nations don't want to take them in, largely due to HAMAS! And I agree that Palestinians cannot stay in Gaza........since HAMAS has already threatened that Oct 7 will happen again, and again. Edited February 10 by betsy Quote
carepov Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 (edited) 11 hours ago, marcus said: Anyone who wants to move, should be able to, as long as they have a right to that land or as long as the country they want to go to allows them to. I agree. I'm sure that many Gazans, originally from Egypt, would like to move. Yet the border is sealed. You seem to partially agree with the Trump "plan". Also, your stance logically condones immigration (both Arabs and Jews) into Palestine (Ottoman and British mandate) then Jews into Israel. 11 hours ago, marcus said: Many Palestinians in Gaza are refugees who were forced out of what is now Israel. They should also be allowed to go back to their homes there. Over 500 towns and villages were destroyed during the Nakba, in 1948. Yes, indeed it was a Nakba for the Arab armies that attacked Israel with the goal of complete genocide. It was not a Nakba for those Arabs that stayed in Israel and whose 2 million descendants enjoy the most freedom than any other Arabs living in the ME. Refugees are a very unfortunate part of war. The right if return is very rare and even more rare is the passing down of refugee status from one generation to the next. I can't think of anywhere else in the world where this applies. Edited February 10 by carepov Quote
PIK Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 Why doesn't thier arab brothers help? Because they to want nothing to do with them. Palestine is a lost cause now,they lost. To much blood and money wasted on a country that never was. And anybody think the jews are just going to hand it over, is delusional. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
carepov Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 11 hours ago, marcus said: Contrary to the narrative that the Israeli hasbara has successfully pushed through western media, the conditions in Gaza were not peachy after the withdraw. The occupation continued after the withdraw of the settlers in the North of Gaza. Israel still had control over the borders, the sea and the air. They controlled what went in and out. There was a brutal blockade of Gaza and 3 brutal attacks on Gaza, where thousands of Palestinians were killed and injured. As long as you have a brutal occupier, there will be resistance. The conditions in any ME state are not "peachy". Gaza was about average. The blockade and wars were due to rockets being launched. After the withdrawal from Gaza, a more constructive option to start building a Palestinian state would have been to adopt a constitution that does not call for the killing of all Jews. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 13 hours ago, carepov said: The 2005 Israeli withdrawal from Gaza was a test for a 2-state solution. The test proved that a Palestinian state would be led by Hamas and try to annihilate Israel. But who acted in violence first ? The extremist who killed Yitzhak Rabin. My Israeli friends used to say that everyone knew it would be a two-state solution. Now 73% of them think that Gaza will magically go away thanks to Jesus Trump. Who knows ? I sure cant predict how they will think - they're religious. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
carepov Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 48 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: But who acted in violence first ? The extremist who killed Yitzhak Rabin. My Israeli friends used to say that everyone knew it would be a two-state solution. Now 73% of them think that Gaza will magically go away thanks to Jesus Trump. Who knows ? I sure cant predict how they will think - they're religious. Israel has consistently wanted peace and would love a feasible two-state solution. The assassination of Yitzhak Rabin 30 years ago is now irrelevant, there have been several peace offers rejected by Palestinians. The majority of Palestinians want a one-state solution where Palestinians rule. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 38 minutes ago, carepov said: Israel has consistently wanted peace and would love a feasible two-state solution. The assassination of Yitzhak Rabin 30 years ago is now irrelevant, there have been several peace offers rejected by Palestinians. The majority of Palestinians want a one-state solution where Palestinians rule. Arguable. I think it takes both sides to make war. It seems that 73% of Israelis want the Palestinians gone too, you see. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
User Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 Contribute funds? Why doesn't Canada just let most if not all of them move to Canada? Quote
User Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 13 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: Arguable. I think it takes both sides to make war. It seems that 73% of Israelis want the Palestinians gone too, you see. Takes both sides... in what way? What is your point? Yeah, Hamas needed someone to go kill and slaughter and start a war... but that doesn't mean the other side wanted it or their response is somehow equally bad in that they are fighting back to defend themselves. Yeah, Isrealis likely want the people gone who since their founding have consistently waged war against them. When you spend your life hiding in rocket shelters from the constant terrorism, you tend to not like the people doing that. Quote
carepov Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 12 hours ago, marcus said: The European Jews can follow whatever religion they want and call themselves whatever they want. But they can't fake originating from Palestine. I am just talking about the genetic connection to the land. The connection that the European Jews claim to have to Palestine is not genetic. So this whole thing about being 'originally' from that area, 3000 years ago, is BS. What are you talking about? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Europe 14 hours ago, marcus said: That said, the argument that we have the right to replace another group of people because we have a connection with the land from 3000 years is such a stupid and moronic argument. The Jews were not replacing anyone, they were living alongside, there is plenty of room for the the 14,000,000 inhabitants. There was no expulsion of Arabs until the Arab-Israeli war of 1947-48 when Arabs attacked. 14 hours ago, marcus said: By the way, the Arabs (Muslim, Christian and Jews) who live in that region (Palestine, Lebanon, and parts of Jordan, Egypt) have actual DNA connection to that land that go back thousands of years to the Canaanites and the Israelites who eventually followed them. Not to mention that the Arabs have been living there consistently for generations and for centuries. Some Arabs yes. And some Arabs came from Arabia after the conquest, and some Arabs are "recent" immigrants from Egypt and other surrounding countries. What's your point? Quote
carepov Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said: I think it takes both sides to make war. No, it only takes one aggressor, the the aggressed have a choice to fight back or submit. There are many examples of this type of war, such as Russia-Ukraine, Germany's invasion of Poland, Iraq invading Kuwait. 1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said: It seems that 73% of Israelis want the Palestinians gone too, you see. cite, please Quote
Barquentine Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 From 2008 to the start of the "current conflict": Israelis killed by Palestinians - 355 Palestinians killed by Israelis - 7180 From the OCHA. Quote
carepov Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 Just now, Barquentine said: From 2008 to the start of the "current conflict": Israelis killed by Palestinians - 355 Palestinians killed by Israelis - 7180 From the OCHA. What is your point? Quote
Barquentine Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 (edited) So much to argue about, but what's the point? Nobody's going to change their mind on this issue. But man, Trump sure conned the Arab-Americans, didn't he? Edited February 10 by Barquentine Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 1 hour ago, User said: Takes both sides... in what way? What is your point? Yeah, Hamas needed someone to go kill and slaughter and start a war... but that doesn't mean the other side wanted it or their response is somehow equally bad in that they are fighting back to defend themselves. Yeah, Isrealis likely want the people gone who since their founding have consistently waged war against them. When you spend your life hiding in rocket shelters from the constant terrorism, you tend to not like the people doing that. Hamas is a horrible terrorist group who murdered some innocents. Israel is a well-armed nation who responded out of scale. They had a war but it's only the latest stage of wars between and the young nation of Israel, established 1948. 46 minutes ago, carepov said: 1. No, it only takes one aggressor, the the aggressed have a choice to fight back or submit. There are many examples of this type of war, such as Russia-Ukraine, Germany's invasion of Poland, Iraq invading Kuwait. 2. cite, please 1. I believe that Hamas is the aggressor in this latest war, agreed. 2. 1 Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
betsy Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 2 hours ago, User said: Contribute funds? Why doesn't Canada just let most if not all of them move to Canada? Oh, lol. Don't even joke about that.........because that could very likely happen if Carney becomes the PM. If that begins to happen, forget economic pressure! Trump will use military force to get Canada! 😁 Quote
User Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 24 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: Hamas is a horrible terrorist group who murdered some innocents. Israel is a well-armed nation who responded out of scale. They had a war but it's only the latest stage of wars between and the young nation of Israel, established 1948. Out of scale? So, you think Israel should have sent men over to gun down an equal number of Palestinian families in their homes? Slaughter a bunch of young adults at a party? Tortured, raped, and then taken a proportionate number of random innocent people as hostages? In what world does that make any sense? 1 Quote
betsy Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 On 2/5/2025 at 3:43 PM, Aristides said: Do you think Hamas would treat Americans any differently from Israelis if they took over Gaza. Sounds like a good place for young Americans can die so Trump can build some hotels. What "HAMAS" would that be that'll be in Gaza? Do you think Hamas won't be exterminated once Palestinians are out of of the way? Meh - Israel and USA would FLATTEN entire GAZA, once Palestinians are of the way. Those Hamas still hiding in tunnels, will be buried in those tunnels. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 4 minutes ago, User said: Out of scale? So, you think Israel should have sent men over to gun down an equal number of Palestinian families in their homes? Slaughter a bunch of young adults at a party? Tortured, raped, and then taken a proportionate number of random innocent people as hostages? In what world does that make any sense? No. Strawman. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
User Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said: No. Strawman. You said it was out of scale... that would be a response of the same scale. Please elaborate then, if you didn't really mean what you said. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 7 minutes ago, User said: You said it was out of scale... that would be a response of the same scale. Please elaborate then, if you didn't really mean what you said. I will surrender the point, then, as I have no interest in engaging in a pedantic discussion as to what "equal response" is to a horrifying event such as happened with the Hamas attack. I lose. 1 Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
User Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 Just now, Michael Hardner said: I will surrender the point, then, as I have no interest in engaging in a pedantic discussion as to what "equal response" is to a horrifying event such as happened with the Hamas attack. I lose. Well, I will take this as half a victory as you are not conceding how bad of a point you made, rather just saying you are not interested in trying to defend it. 1 Quote
carepov Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. I believe that Hamas is the aggressor in this latest war, agreed. 2. I looked for the source of that poll but cannot find it. Israeli's want peace. 1 Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted February 14 Report Posted February 14 I could see settling some of them in the West Bank. That makes sense. Otherwise, what countries would you have in mind? Quote
carepov Posted February 14 Report Posted February 14 8 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said: I could see settling some of them in the West Bank. That makes sense. Otherwise, what countries would you have in mind? War refugees are a sad reality. My understanding is that Egypt is legally and morally obligated to take in Gazan refugees. They could then apply for residency like the >20 million refugees from wars around the world. https://www.statista.com/statistics/272999/refugees-by-source-country/ Why is this war any different than all the other wars? Quote
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