He/him she/her etc: what is the meaning?

[myata]

Having come across it on a more than a single occasion recently, I set myself a challenge: to find a plausible realistic case, scenario where the exercise could be useful or in fact of make any sense in the sense of carrying valuable information. Could be something like this:

"Hey Linda you were such a great gal working on our last project kudos and the best for the next one" oops it was actually he/his.

If one was clueless enough to send something of the kind to a colleague in a formal setting would correct thoughtful pronouns help? Or what are we trying to say here? What is the message in it, or was it the media, messenger?

Why he/him for the h@ck's sake no really? Could it have been he/her, she/his to avoid confusion? Seriously, what am I missing?

More importantly: who is doing this to us and why - often also, out of our pocket and without asking and as if they really have done everything else we tasked them to and with a perfect grade and quality too? If someone decided, personally and privately to do that for any reason or without such so be it - it's a personal private choice. But who makes the policies, the templates? Who brings your attention to non-compliance and suggest? Why are they paid for it? When did the policy first begin to contradict and then flew out free of the gravity span of the plain common sense?

Or is it just political system that escaped the bounds of reason and reality and launched itself to (infinity and beyond) unknown and unexplored causes and ventures? Who would know? Anyone?

[myata]

I worked in an office for close to two decades before moving to another setting. Not once back then, and not once since do I recall any issue, inconvenience or even minor lacking for the absence of the pronouns. So what are we being taught here? What is the exercise? And by who?

Edited January 2 by myata

[Michael Hardner]

30 minutes ago, myata said:

1. ...  who is doing this to us and why -
2. often also, out of our pocket and without asking and as if they really have done everything else we tasked them to and with a perfect grade and quality too? If someone decided, personally and privately to do that for any reason or without such so be it - it's a personal private choice. But who makes the policies, the templates? Who brings your attention to non-compliance and suggest? Why are they paid for it? When did the policy first begin to contradict and then flew out free of the gravity span of the plain common sense?
3. Or is it just political system that escaped the bounds of reason and reality and launched itself to (infinity and beyond) unknown and unexplored causes and ventures? Who would know? Anyone?

1. Pretty clearly, people who don't feel comfortable in their own skin.
2. I have been corrected on gender.  It's nothing to get too upset overall.  I have even made multiple mistakes.  Reasonable people will understand that it takes time to get used to it.   If you make a big deal about calling a self-declared woman "HE" then someone will probably chat to you about it... like HR or a boss.  If they don't, you can expect the same thing as if you had called them "darky".
3. "I prefer you to call me this" is enough of a reason in polite society, I would say.  I don't see any parallels other than gender, where people wouldn't take the preference of the subject in mind at least.

[myata]

You are writing a business letter to someone you never met, never seen, may never see, talk to or even write to again, ever and already waving the gender flag: look, you can call me this! Please do, really! No no you can't make a mistake it would be soooo unbearable or a crime

When did we agree to give up our sanity? More importantly, where will it take us?

Edited January 2 by myata

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, myata said:

1. You are writing a business letter to someone you never met, never seen, may never see, talk to or even write to again, ever and already waving the gender flag: look, you can call me this! Please do, really! No no you can't make a mistake it would be soooo unbearable or a crime

2. When did we agree to give up our sanity? More importantly, where will it take us?

1. It wouldn't be a crime.  Meh.  It's up to you if you want to put your pronouns on things or not.  Most of the time people don't care in my experience.

2. You might have to accept that most people don't mind this change so much.  When I was younger, we were asked to refer to women not as Miss or Missus but Ms.  There was a kafuffle then too.  But it passed pretty quickly...

[I am Groot]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Pretty clearly, people who don't feel comfortable in their own skin.
2. I have been corrected on gender.  It's nothing to get too upset overall.  I have even made multiple mistakes.  Reasonable people will understand that it takes time to get used to it.   If you make a big deal about calling a self-declared woman "HE" then someone will probably chat to you about it... like HR or a boss.  If they don't, you can expect the same thing as if you had called them "darky".
3. "I prefer you to call me this" is enough of a reason in polite society, I would say.  I don't see any parallels other than gender, where people wouldn't take the preference of the subject in mind at least.

It's not "I prefer", it's "I demand". 

And calling a two hundred and fifty pound, furry-faced individual with a penis and obvious Adam's apple a guy is NOT the same as using racist pejoratives to visible minorities. Nor is not using a made-up, grammatically incorrect honorific or title for a person who is rarely reasonable since only a narcicist with strong psychological and behavioral issues will demand it.

[Michael Hardner]

13 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

1. It's not "I prefer", it's "I demand". 

2. And calling a two hundred and fifty pound, furry-faced individual with a penis and obvious Adam's apple a guy is NOT the same as using racist pejoratives to visible minorities.

3. Nor is not using a made-up, grammatically incorrect honorific or title for a person who is rarely reasonable since only a narcicist with strong psychological and behavioral issues will demand it.

1. Well if someone DEMANDS you call them that, and you don't want to then there's a disconnect.  Too bad for both parties.

2. Well, you want to make what I call someone to be a matter of material fact.  But many of us don't want that.  Probably most will just shrug, so you won't get your way ... just as the person who wants you to use their word won't get their way with this.

3. It doesn't matter, in the grand comedy of manners.  Ms. wasn't real either and people fought about that one as much as this.  Make your case, and accept that you might win/lose.

I can make a case that my coworker is objectively fat too.  If they want me to call them Mr. Thin I can refuse but I can't call them Mr. Fat either.  This is an arrangement that most of us can live with.  I have to live with much worse in my life, like people saying I can't call myself a Christian or a conservative because this or that.

Freedom means I get to define myself.  If I'm living in a fantasy world, don't play along.   It doesn't have to make sense to you, to me, or to HR... 

[Moonlight Graham]

There was a young man with long hair, lipstick, and earrings who took my order inside McDonald's a few months ago.  I threw my fries at him and ran away.

The first sentence was true, the 2nd sentence was a lie.

[Michael Hardner]

10 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

There was a young man with long hair, lipstick, and earrings who took my order inside McDonald's a few months ago.  I threw my fries at him and ran away.

The first sentence was true, the 2nd sentence was a lie.

No, the first sentence is false.. unless he told you his pronouns! 😂😆🤔😲😜

[Moonlight Graham]

58 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

No, the first sentence is false.. unless he told you his pronouns! 😂😆🤔😲😜

Biological male I guess I meant.

[myata]

18 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

most people don't mind this change so much. 

Most people don't mind sheer, thought and brain-free nonsense? And where will it take us - presumably, or self appointed so, intelligent species? Not could.

[myata]

Is it really entirely voluntary? Or could it be that someone somewhere is watching? Within a short stretch after literally decades I saw not one of these in academic correspondence. Just wondering would anyone deliberately and consciously think about that, then dig out out the setting go in and change it? Spend all this time for what, and to which end? Who is the beneficiary, of the brainless stupidity? Look I'm she/his in my first communication to you. Do you care, already?

Could someone who did it or knows share the motivation and experience if only for the curiosity's sake?

Edited January 3 by myata

[Michael Hardner]

50 minutes ago, myata said:

Most people don't mind sheer, thought and brain-free nonsense? And where will it take us - presumably, or self appointed so, intelligent species? Not could.

The sky isn't falling.  I am glad to help someone out if it makes them feel better, even if my internal logic doesn't agree with it.

[Shady]

It's virtue signaling, especially when done by people who already use the usual/normal pronouns.  If you use the usual/normal pronouns, you shouldn't be telling people what your pronouns are.  It's ridiculous.

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, Shady said:

It's virtue signaling, especially when done by people who already use the usual/normal pronouns.  If you use the usual/normal pronouns, you shouldn't be telling people what your pronouns are.  It's ridiculous.

Do you personally know any trans folks ?

[Shady]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Do you personally know any trans folks ?

No.  But I don't have a problem with a trans person having preferred pronouns.  I have a problem with non-trans people stating their preferred pronouns.  It's ridiculous, and unnecessary, all done for virtue signaling.

[myata]

Even worse would be imposing ridiculous entirely superficial pseudo virtues. There's nothing lighthearted about it. As we can't control our democracy and legal system anymore conscious citizens should find the will and courage to stay away from the obvious, totally useless stupidity. Or it will consume everything every place and aspect of our lives we'll end up having to stand on one foot in the correct pose and enjoy it, visibly. Why wouldn't it? There's the line, and boundary it wouldn't cross if allowed to do anything it likes?

The sad state of our existence seems to be not that wrong decisions are made, but sanity goes, slips away everywhere. No one is safe anymore, make it sane.

Edited January 4 by myata

[Army Guy]

8 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Do you personally know any trans folks ?

Is that a perquisite, before you have an opinion ? I don't know you personally but i think your an OK guy...

[eyeball]

On 1/2/2025 at 1:14 PM, I am Groot said:

It's not "I prefer", it's "I demand"

Only because you refuse.

Seriously? It pains you to rise even that little above yourself?

I mean, do we need the hurt dolly to get to bottom of this?

[eyeball]

10 hours ago, Shady said:

No.  But I don't have a problem with a trans person having preferred pronouns.  I have a problem with non-trans people stating their preferred pronouns.  It's ridiculous, and unnecessary, all done for virtue signaling.

Not doing it signals things as well, often just as ridiculous and unnecessary.

Do you to have to cry yourself to sleep at night over it?

You can probably get help for problems like that.

[myata]

We talked about crazy conspiracy theories and how rightwing masterminds create and spread them. But who created this craziness? Who is spreading it, and why? What is one sane case to do that, where there was never a slightest rational point, before?

None: that much is simple. The only point being made is this: yes, I'm on the bandwagon! Masks, vaccinations, same thing yes I've got to be on some bandwagon and here it goes.

Should all official, business mail and communications now include a roll of issues I care about? Why shouldn't it? Wouldn't it so greatly facilitate understanding and communications? When did we agree to give up sanity?

[I am Groot]

11 hours ago, eyeball said:

Only because you refuse.

Seriously? It pains you to rise even that little above yourself?

I mean, do we need the hurt dolly to get to bottom of this?

Respect is earned, not demanded, and I don't respect people who are narcissists and who fail to seek counseling for their emotional/psychological problems.

 

[myata]

There's next to zero chance that normal official/business communications would cause any issues for this matter. There's exactly zero possibility that it would cause any consequential issues.

The reason tells us that there's next to zero rational cause for this practice, show whatever it is. It's all pure and 100% of it, about some artificially created agenda. That's fine for personal, private and individual spaces and spheres but folks who create them simply don't know how to stop and why. We absolutely shouldn't play into their games and agendas because it sure like the sunrise will come back to hit us. They just don't know where to stop, and why.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, myata said:

 They just don't know where to stop, and why.

So what? Private agendas make weigh their way into the public after a while. 

Same-sex marriage, interracial marriage, rights... Eventually are tested and accepted against the public moral fabric. 

Do you think it's ridiculous? Okay then you do. But this is a subjective decision. The rest of us are going to go along with it in all likelihood, given that trans rights are already recognized in law. 

You're free to keep complaining of course.

[myata]

29 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

that trans rights are already recognized

Is your reading fails you now Michael? It was shown and proven above that it has little or actually nothing to do with any rights and everything - with artificially created agendas likely and even probably not out of great love for same sex, trans etc but to secure a nice cozy place in a virtually or totally? unaccountable office.

And I do hope that you will be proven wrong in "most of us" jumping on the first bandwagon whenever and whoever decides to wave another "liberation" flag. It wouldn't bode well for our collective fate... as the dinosaurs found out quite a while back.

Edited January 4 by myata