How immigration is making Canada - and Europe - poorer

[eyeball]

9 hours ago, CdnFox said:

So what you're saying is you give literally everyone around you a migraine

I make a few heads explode alright. Not much to it really.

[CdnFox]

13 hours ago, eyeball said:

I make a few heads explode alright. Not much to it really.

My condolences to your parents but that's not the ones i meant  

[I am Groot]

On 12/24/2024 at 12:47 PM, Moonlight Graham said:

We do deport failed refugee applicants.  Some do disappear and stay illegally forever.

I don't think your numbers on skilled migrants (economic class) is correct, they make up the majority of people granted permanent resident status.

We rarely deport failed refugee claimants. We send them a registered letter notifying them their appeals have been denied and ordering them to leave. If they don't leave, well, Border Services has a very small unit tasked with finding convicted criminals who are to be deported. They can barely cope with that and have no time to look for failed refugee claimants. If they come across one they'll deport them, but that's not often.

The skilled category is deceptive to begin with. Everyone who arrives under it is not skilled, only the principal applicant. The rest of the numbers are his/her spouse and children - none of whom face any tests for language or education.

This is half a dozen years old, but given the huge increase in immigration, the cheating going on with foreign students and foreign workers, the sixfold increase in elderly immigration numbers, not to mention the huge increase in refugee claimants (85% of whom are accepted) do you find any logic to the belief things have gotten BETTER, as opposed to worse? I'm betting the percentages have actually worsened.

In fact, only about 15 to 17 per cent of the annual flow consists of immigrants selected because they have skills, education and experience. Because of the pressure to get high numbers, few of these workers are seen or interviewed by visa officers. The selection is done by a paper review. The remainder of the movement is made up of the spouses and children accompanying the workers, family members sponsored by relatives in Canada, immigrants selected by the provinces (who do not have to meet federal selection criteria ), refugees and humanitarian cases.

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columnists/bissett-immigration-policy-is-out-of-control-and-needs-an-overhaul

 

Edited December 27, 2024 by I am Groot

[Michael Hardner]

On 12/24/2024 at 11:21 AM, I am Groot said:

At present, only about 13% of those we bring in (probably less) are assessed for skills, education, or even language ability. As the vast majority of newcomers are coming from the third world they, at the very least, almost certainly have poor language skills. 

Are you sure of this? I looked for some stats on that. I'm more than half I brought in for economic reasons... I.e. to work 

 

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/221026/dq221026a-eng.htm

 

If you're only saying that the government doesn't confirm that they have the skills they're brought in to work for, I suppose that could be true. But it might not be necessary to verify such things if an employer is already doing it right ?

[I am Groot]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Are you sure of this? I looked for some stats on that. I'm more than half I brought in for economic reasons... I.e. to work 

My belief is taken from the numbers given by the former head of Immigration Canada in the cite I posted earlier today. There it was 15%-17%. But given what the Liberals have done in almost doubling immigration (but not doubling immigration officers), their instructions to visa officers to not even bother to check for criminal backgrounds on incoming students (who will be allowed to stay and work for 3 years afterward and then fast-tracked for PR, and the flood of foreign workers combined with huge numbers of 'refugees', who will almost all be accepted, well, how could the number not be lower?

The refugees alone amount to about 125k PRs last year who haven't had any background checks to speak of. That number was closer to 25k when the figures were put into that cite.

And again, remember that when they say over half of recent immigrants came in under that program they include the unchecked spouses and children of the principal applicant (who make up a bit less than 1/3 of that category). So rather than 50% (say) the figure would be about 16%

I'm also unsure if when they say "a little more than half of recent immigrants" that includes refugees who get PR and then citizenship.

 

Edited December 27, 2024 by I am Groot

[Michael Hardner]

33 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

My belief is taken from the numbers given by the former head of Immigration Canada in the cite I posted earlier today. There it was 15%-17%. But given what the Liberals have done in almost doubling immigration (but not doubling immigration officers), their instructions to visa officers to not even bother to check for criminal backgrounds on incoming students (who will be allowed to stay and work for 3 years afterward and then fast-tracked for PR, and the flood of foreign workers combined with huge numbers of 'refugees', who will almost all be accepted, well, how could the number not be lower?

The refugees alone amount to about 125k PRs last year who haven't had any background checks to speak of. That number was closer to 25k when the figures were put into that cite.

And again, remember that when they say over half of recent immigrants came in under that program they include the unchecked spouses and children of the principal applicant (who make up a bit less than 1/3 of that category). So rather than 50% (say) the figure would be about 16%

I'm also unsure if when they say "a little more than half of recent immigrants" that includes refugees who get PR and then citizenship.

 

Okay, we should separate out refugees. They are processed on a claims basis, not the same thing

[NAME REMOVED]

47 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

My belief is taken from the numbers given by the former head of Immigration Canada in the cite I posted earlier today. There it was 15%-17%. But given what the Liberals have done in almost doubling immigration (but not doubling immigration officers), their instructions to visa officers to not even bother to check for criminal backgrounds on incoming students (who will be allowed to stay and work for 3 years afterward and then fast-tracked for PR, and the flood of foreign workers combined with huge numbers of 'refugees', who will almost all be accepted, well, how could the number not be lower?

Can you substantiate your claim with a source? 

Edited December 27, 2024 by DUI_Offender

[CdnFox]

57 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Okay, we should separate out refugees. They are processed on a claims basis, not the same thing

The result is the same regardless of how it's processed. The numbers are accurate no matter what you say about the methods.

Basically @I am Groot Just demonstrated that you were wrong and that he was correct and your response isn't to address the issue but is to try and find a way to rework the math so that somehow you look less wrong.

However they get here, the number of people don't change and their level of education and suitability for our population doesn't change

[cougar]

On 12/23/2024 at 10:58 AM, Michael Hardner said:

 Lower wages mean lower costs, therefore lower prices and higher profits. 

Higher profits for the owners of the companies only.   The rest are screwed as was observed by the original poster.

[CdnFox]

52 minutes ago, cougar said:

Higher profits for the owners of the companies only.   The rest are screwed as was observed by the original poster.

That's not what the op said.

And the reason they pay lower wages to those people is because the generally there is lower productivity. Not because of a bad work ethic but they just simply aren't as up to speed as canadian-born people on how things work in the country. So it generally doesn't translate into the higher profits that everyone thinks it does in many cases. McDonald's maybe but that's about it

The damage they do is actually quite different. A lower average wage means less tax revenue per person for the government and yet the same number of services must be provided. Basically that means it becomes impossible to deliver the same level of health care, education and other services for the population.

They also put tremendous inflationary pressures on the country. When you add a million new mouths to feed every year you put a lot of strain on food prices. And that many people all needing a home puts a strain on the housing market which is reflected in prices. And so on.

In the end nobody benefits. Excessive immigration is a net loss for everybody including the immigrants.

[BlahTheCanuck]

On 12/23/2024 at 1:58 PM, Michael Hardner said:

It's a logical fallacy that such things reduce the wealth of a nation.  Lower wages mean lower costs, therefore lower prices and higher profits.  That's how a market works.

Not when you're bringing in large amounts of people every year, which drive up demand for nearly everything, including housing. You're achieving lower wages at the cost of excess demand for goods and services of which there is a shortage, which means that prices don't go down.

Not to mention that importing low-wage labour also has a negative effect on productivity, since low-skilled immigrants tend to disincentivize the kind of investment in workers needed to foster productivity growth.

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, BlahTheCanuck said:

1. Not when you're bringing in large amounts of people every year, which drive up demand for nearly everything, including housing. You're achieving lower wages at the cost of excess demand for goods and services of which there is a shortage, which means that prices don't go down.

2. Not to mention that importing low-wage labour also has a negative effect on productivity, since low-skilled immigrants tend to disincentivize the kind of investment in workers needed to foster productivity growth.

1. I was speaking generally, not about the current situation with housing which is special. I do support reducing immigration at this time.

2. That's an interesting angle but for that you'd have to look at specifics.  

[Gaétan]

In the same way Canada, US and Europe make immigrant countries poorer as well.

[August1991]

On 12/27/2024 at 12:09 PM, I am Groot said:

We rarely deport failed refugee claimants. We send them a registered letter notifying them their appeals have been denied and ordering them to leave. If they don't leave, well, Border Services has a very small unit tasked with finding convicted criminals who are to be deported.

 

 

Groot,

Imagine if we could have no-cost fusion energy.

Would you refuse this free energy source?

 

[August1991]

J D Vance is wrong about this, and he knows it.

America is changing.

[I am Groot]

10 hours ago, August1991 said:

Groot,

Imagine if we could have no-cost fusion energy.

Would you refuse this free energy source?

 

Are you drunk again?