Should Canada reduce immigration/temporary residents to less than 200,000 for the next 5 years?

[I am Groot]

On 10/25/2024 at 12:53 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

When it comes to immigration and national interests PP is slightly better than Liberals but he is worse in other aspects like Harper he likely wishes to satisfy religious right so he may introduce and pass reactionary backward legislations or laws like banning pornography, banning abortions, banning doctor assisted suicide like Harper did in 2014 making consenting sex between adults (when material or money is exchanged) illegal (a criminal offense) to get the vote of reactionary religious right.

This  is nothing more than the paranoid ravings of the Left. It's total crap.

[I am Groot]

On 10/25/2024 at 8:31 PM, August1991 said:

I disagree. In the past, we received far more. Canada has lots of space.

We Canadians can receive 400,000 or about 1% of our current population.

I'm fine with that as long as they all go to Quebec and stay there. 

[I am Groot]

Came across a writeup in the Telegraph that struck some chords with me.

 

Along with his fellow travellers in the institutions, he (Trudeau) set to work ripping the country’s historic identity to shreds. The three prongs of the attack involved setting fire to its past, promoting LGBTQ and critical race theory in schools and government, and unleashing an unprecedented wave of mass migration. Only now that the full impact of this cultural revolution is sinking in is the country waking up. Even the mainstream liberal left admits things have gone too far.

Journalist Omer Aziz, in the liberal establishment Globe and Mail, penned a viral piece about the betrayal of the ‘Canadian Dream’, which he characterised as on life support. He speaks of a social crisis, an immigration crisis, an economic crisis and a political crisis after the ravages of Trudeau. 

Former Tory cabinet minister Kevin Klein adds, ‘Today, our country’s identity is under siege, not from outside invaders but from within – by an ideology that seeks to erase what it means to be Canadian. The left’s relentless attack on our values, history, and sense of belonging is tearing at the very fabric of our democracy.’

[CITIZEN_2015]

14 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

This  is nothing more than the paranoid ravings of the Left. It's total crap.

You got it wrong there. I am not left. I am very right on political spectrum. I just say what I believe is truth.

[I am Groot]

3 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

You got it wrong there. I am not left. I am very right on political spectrum. I just say what I believe is truth.

Well, what you believe has no evidence to sustain it. If anyone was going to do what you claimed it would have been Harper, the evangelical Christian. It certainly won't be Poilievre. 

[CITIZEN_2015]

15 hours ago, blackbird said:

It i

 

There are some things that people don't have to be a Christian or believe in the Bible to know.  You don't appear to know that.   It is a fake excuse to dismiss these things as just being religious.  Things like murder, stealing, adultery, and yes, fornication or pre-marital sex are all wrong.  Just because many people in modern society are pagans and don't accept Christianity, doesn't make what people do right.  Society has become quite depraved and fallen in the last 100 years.  

You seem to somehow think these things are progress or progressive and great improvements.  Actually it is the opposite.  More divorce, and breakup of families, more crime, and more youth involved in these things is not a improvement of society at all.  It is a collapse of society.

 

I agree with you uncontrolled prostitution like how it is now after bill C-36 is very evil. It is new human slavery. It goes against women's rights to choose and dignity. In New Zealand however, by decriminalization most of the evil sides are resolved as workers are in this profession by choice and are checked for diseases and can call law enforcement in case of violence or pimping or forced, By making it illegal, you invite crimes and pimping and danger and forced or underaged prostitution with many victims.

Murder and stealing is not the same as adultery. Adultery is only bad if two people is in a committed relationship and one side betrays. Adultery must not be a sin when two people are in consenting relationship but they don't have a piece of paper saying that they are married or a priest has not declared them husband of wife,

The closed society where there is gender separation in schools and eveywhere is also very evil. It results in many issues we see these days in Islamic societies. They are f*cked up/

Edited October 27, 2024 by CITIZEN_2015

[Zeitgeist]

Canada is lost and I’m not sure how or if it will be found, because the current federal government has set the country on a path to both cultural and literal suicide.  By making the cost of owning a home and just existing so high through carbon taxes, mass immigration, over-regulation, and unsustainably high government and social safety net costs, the citizens and businesses are being squeezed.

Add to this the unhealthy embracing of hard drugs, medically assisted suicide, free birth control, unlimited abortion to the expected day of birth, and promotion of infertile LGBTQ+ relationships, and you have a recipe for the literal suicide of a people and the cultural values that made the country prosperous.  I won’t even get into the hormonal environmental impacts of estrogen in our water supply impacting fertility rates and altering natural gender.  The plastics that mimic estrogen just add to the problem.

The assault on our founding French, English and European immigrant cultures is particularly damaging and based on lies.  Rather than respecting the hard work and values of the past generations who built this country. and respecting the historic context in which settlers lived and worked, our own government has exaggerated the negative and falsely accused the immigrants who built our once great nation of genocide.

Why did they do all this?   To score points with unaccountable elites at the UN and World Economic Forum who don’t know our history or peoples?  To pander to radical left feminists, LGBTQ, and climate activists?

Well we see the results.  It’s harder for people to get ahead.  People who have done nothing wrong feel ashamed of their country.  People who value natural health and family, the fundamental building block of society, are ridiculed.  Trudeau’s Canada has violated individual Charter rights and the most fundamental principles of democracy by undermining subsidiarity and respect for the grassroots local level of governance.  It’s top-down and ideologically-driven.  Canada’s international image has deteriorated.

Edited October 27, 2024 by Zeitgeist

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Far too high. We've been letting in that many for decades now and are losing our national cohesion. There are so many immigrant kids in school they can't find many Canadians to integrate with. Instead, in some cases, it's Canadian kids who are being influenced by the immigrant kids.

All of that may be true but dropping it to next to nothing instantly has severe conseuqences that just wind up making things worse. 

If  a car is going too fast and you slam on the breaks with all your strength, you don't stop faster. instead you go into an uncontrolled skid which is dangerous and takes longer to actually stop. 

Like it or not there's a number of elements of our economy that require population growth to function. Sadly we're not going to be increasing that population ourselves, we're at about  1.3 births per woman right now.  If the economy tanks it will hurt the more recent immigrants the most and that always leads to severe unrest (see france) not to mention it opens the door for the next left wing gov't to fling the doors wide open again. 

Better to do it right.  I don't know the precise number but it can be calculated easy enough and we keep it to a minimum necessary to avoid tipping over the apple cart till things are back to normal 

You can however definitely push for improvements and toughening of our flag system for immigrants. That helps a lot. 

[paradox34]

No immigration period! If the Liberals had the brains god gave a chipmunk they'd admit that immigration to a country like Canada defeats there entire environmental agenda

[I am Groot]

5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

All of that may be true but dropping it to next to nothing instantly has severe conseuqences that just wind up making things worse. 

For whom? I bet it won't make things worse for people trying to rent an apartment or find a job.

5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Like it or not there's a number of elements of our economy that require population growth to function.

We have the fastest population growth in the Western world. That's a helluva far cry from just slowly increasing the population. And even the latter is a ponzi scheme that has to end eventually. The parts of our economy that use most of the new immigrants are the service sector and tech. The service sector contributes very little to our economy. The tech sector is a mess that relies on cheap foreign labour and is largely made up of branch plants of foreign companies. The low wages it pays drives Canadian tech employees out of the country, and trading skilled tech workers trained in Canada for the slapdash tech workers from India is a really bad idea. 

Even so, if most of the immigrants were highly skilled it wouldn't be so bad. At least they'd be paying taxes. But most are not. 

 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

For whom?

 

Canadians. It would be good for nobody in the end. 

Quote

I bet it won't make things worse for people trying to rent an apartment or find a job.

I bet it does.

If contractors and Builders heard that that was happening today and knew that there would be far fewer people looking for places next year and that there would probably be a glut in the market considering the product that was coming off the line and that purchasing anything right now may mean taking a loss down the road until things settled down, do you think they're building more homes or less?

You would almost certainly see a major downturn in housing bills and we need there to be housing bills right now

Further, it would probably cause a pretty major economic meltdown for the economy. And the people who want to go out and rent said apartments and places will have a tough time without a job.

The number of sectors would struggle, and unfortunately that has a spread impact for the rest of the economy as well.

Additionally the people that will suffer the most are the current immigrants who haven't got established yet. Employers generally prefer established Canadians, they're more reliable they're easier to work with they understand the culture and speak the language. So it's the newbies who are going to have a tougher time finding a job. So what winds up happening as we've seen in England and in France is they wind up huddling into little communities where they can't get work, they feel like this situation is hopeless, and they become angry and disillusioned and then you get social unrest.

And while social unrest is bad in and of itself, the next problem you get is the left-wing standing up and screaming about how this is all the fault of not having immigration so now we need 2 million people a year and a significant number of Canadians will go for that.

Not to mention there are a number of trades we desperately need people in today and simply cannot train enough. Doctors for example, a very high percentage of our doctors come from out of Canada right now.

Education facilities will struggle significantly because unfortunately thanks to the liberals they structure themselves in such a way that they pay and subsidize Canadians by having foreign students who pay full price. This is allowed them to become bloated and fat. But if you actually charge fair price to the students you get more civil unrest and that needs to be addressed.

I could go on for quite a while.

 

Like it or not the liberals took an economy that was already somewhat dependent on a modest level of growth, put it on steroids, and now if we're not bringing in a million people a year the economy struggles. That's why he's been doing it, increasing every year so that it masks the problems that he has built into the system.

You can't reverse that cold turkey without completely crashing the system. You have to allow for time for adaptation and you need to make sure that you don't scare the bejesus out of certain groups like Developers.

[August1991]

16 hours ago, I am Groot said:

I'm fine with that as long as they all go to Quebec and stay there. 

What a thread!

=====

In the past (1890s or so), Quebec had many people. Catholic, birthrate.

But the federal government encouraged foreigners to populate the West - not Quebecers.

Imagine if Laurier/Sifton had allowed Catholics to go West rather than South.

[CdnFox]

9 hours ago, August1991 said:

What a thread!

=====

In the past (1890s or so), Quebec had many people. Catholic, birthrate.

But the federal government encouraged foreigners to populate the West - not Quebecers.

Imagine if Laurier/Sifton had allowed Catholics to go West rather than South.

Quebecers had no interest in going to the west. And until after world war I the government had no interest in people of any sort going to the west. They wanted to keep the west repressed.

 

[cougar]

On 10/27/2024 at 9:29 AM, Zeitgeist said:

1.....our own government has exaggerated the negative and falsely accused the immigrants who built our once great nation of genocide.

2.  People who have done nothing wrong feel ashamed of their country. 

3.  Canada’s international image has deteriorated.

1.    Not really.   Even Biden is now apologizing to First Nations in the States for similar crimes done against them.  It has happened and has been happening until recently.   This is not too say there are no bad apples amongst the Natives or that they are not using every opportunity now to milk the system and use it to their advantage.

2.   Who are those people?  I have never been ashamed as far as the past is concerned because I wasn't here and neither were my ancestors , so I have nothing to apologize for.   But I have never been proud of the country either.

3.  Except just about every country is a mess, so overall nobody cares any more - not our government, not us, not the foreigners.  

Just like with voting you go where the stench is less pronounced.

[cougar]

On 10/27/2024 at 11:58 AM, paradox34 said:

No immigration period! If the Liberals had the brains god gave a chipmunk they'd admit that immigration to a country like Canada defeats there entire environmental agenda

Oh, they are all magician chipmunks.  They will bring those 1,000,000 new Asians next year, build 3 more oil and gas and LNG pipelines, cut the last remaining old growth trees and tell you we are still on track to meet the international climate targets.

Edited October 28, 2024 by cougar

[I am Groot]

15 hours ago, cougar said:

1.    Not really.   Even Biden is now apologizing to First Nations

"Even Biden"? Biden isn't exactly a stern conservative, you know. And only conservatives have pride in their country and will defend its history, values and institutions. 

[I am Groot]

On 10/27/2024 at 8:53 PM, CdnFox said:

Canadians. It would be good for nobody in the end. 

If you say it would be good for nobody then you're saying having mass immigration is helping us. Yet look at the state of Canada today vs twenty, thirty or forty years ago. We've been going downhill steadily during a time period which 'coincidentally' is when immigration has been ramped up. 

 

On 10/27/2024 at 8:53 PM, CdnFox said:

I bet it does.

If contractors and Builders heard that that was happening today and knew that there would be far fewer people looking for places next year and that there would probably be a glut in the market considering the product that was coming off the line and that purchasing anything right now may mean taking a loss down the road until things settled down, do you think they're building more homes or less?

Absolutely. Because there's a HUGE gaping hole right now between what we can build and what we will need. Do you think builders are going to just stop building because they will only barely, perhaps, be able to almost meet demand instead? 

On 10/27/2024 at 8:53 PM, CdnFox said:

You would almost certainly see a major downturn in housing bills and we need there to be housing bills right now

You're not making any sense here. We need to have tons of immigrants coming in despite not having nearly enough housing and not building nearly enough housing because otherwise... we wouldn't have enough housing?

On 10/27/2024 at 8:53 PM, CdnFox said:

Further, it would probably cause a pretty major economic meltdown for the economy. And the people who want to go out and rent said apartments and places will have a tough time without a job.

They have a tough time finding a job now. Certain parts of the economy would suffer, like the service industry that employs minimum wage workers. But that really contributes nothing to the economy anyway since people with disposable income will spend it elsewhere. It won't harm the productive parts of the economy, though.

On 10/27/2024 at 8:53 PM, CdnFox said:

The number of sectors would struggle, and unfortunately that has a spread impact for the rest of the economy as well.

You realize we're in a recession NOW, right? The mass of temporary workers and immigrants is masking it and making the GDP inch upward despite that, but that's just playing statistical games. 

 

On 10/27/2024 at 8:53 PM, CdnFox said:

Additionally the people that will suffer the most are the current immigrants who haven't got established yet.

Then they will have to do what immigrants did in the past when they couldn't get established - leave. 

The skilled, talented ones will make it. And those are who we want.

 

On 10/27/2024 at 8:53 PM, CdnFox said:

Employers generally prefer established Canadians, they're more reliable they're easier to work with they understand the culture and speak the language. So it's the newbies who are going to have a tougher time finding a job. So what winds up happening as we've seen in England and in France is they wind up huddling into little communities where they can't get work, they feel like this situation is hopeless, and they become angry and disillusioned and then you get social unrest.

They're already huddling into their own communities, as per that government report I posted info on. And I'm sure there'll be more jobs available when we offload all those temporary foreign workers and foreign so-called students who are only here to work. 

On 10/27/2024 at 8:53 PM, CdnFox said:

Not to mention there are a number of trades we desperately need people in today and simply cannot train enough. Doctors for example, a very high percentage of our doctors come from out of Canada right now.

Right, well, I'm willing to allow the 0.03% or so of immigrants who are tradesmen and doctors to come in anyway.

On 10/27/2024 at 8:53 PM, CdnFox said:

Education facilities will struggle significantly because unfortunately thanks to the liberals they structure themselves in such a way that they pay and subsidize Canadians by having foreign students who pay full price.

Yeah, too bad. But the thing is, they're supposed to be for educating Canadians, not profit-making institutions that gorge on foreign students so they can hire legions of know-nothing administrators. All government institutions should fire all those DEI and antiracism people and let them see if they can find anyone but fast food restaurants willing to hire them in the private sector.

On 10/27/2024 at 8:53 PM, CdnFox said:

Like it or not the liberals took an economy that was already somewhat dependent on a modest level of growth, put it on steroids,

No, they did not. Our economy was centred on the resource industry and the Liberals have spent nine years doing everything in their power to destroy it. In tandem with slashing immigration we can slash all the regulatory nonsense that restricts the resource industry and get our economy moving again.

 

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, I am Groot said:

If you say it would be good for nobody then you're saying having mass immigration is helping us.

 

First off mass immigration doesn't mean anything. It's what followers of Mad Max say to sound cool, but have never been able to describe what a "mass" of immigrants is. 

So if you're going to have a serious conversation let's ditch the childish terms that mean nothing and are only designed to appeal to first grader intelligence. What we're talking about is excessive immigration. Immigration in excess of our ability to absorb or incorporate in our country. Immigration in excess of our capacity to provide for the new immigrants.

I know, it does not follow at all that having no immigration means that we benefit from having excessive immigration. There is a critical balance and both excessive and zero would be bad.

It's like a carburetor. No fuel and the car doesn't run. Too much fuel in the carburetor and the car doesn't run. There is a correct mixture

Yet look at the state of Canada today vs twenty, thirty or forty years ago. We've been going downhill steadily during a time period which 'coincidentally' is when immigration has been ramped up. 

 

Absolutely. Because there's a HUGE gaping hole right now between what we can build and what we will need. Do you think builders are going to just stop building because they will only barely, perhaps, be able to almost meet demand instead? 

You're not making any sense here. We need to have tons of immigrants coming in despite not having nearly enough housing and not building nearly enough housing because otherwise... we wouldn't have enough housing?

They have a tough time finding a job now. Certain parts of the economy would suffer, like the service industry that employs minimum wage workers. But that really contributes nothing to the economy anyway since people with disposable income will spend it elsewhere. It won't harm the productive parts of the economy, though.

You realize we're in a recession NOW, right? The mass of temporary workers and immigrants is masking it and making the GDP inch upward despite that, but that's just playing statistical games. 

 

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Then they will have to do what immigrants did in the past when they couldn't get established - leave. 

Only the good ones will leave. What were left with is the dregs. Canada will become the filter for low value people.

 

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The skilled, talented ones will make it. And those are who we want.

No, they'll leave which is exactly what's happening right now.

Quote

They're already huddling into their own communities, as per that government report I posted info on. And I'm sure there'll be more jobs available when we offload all those temporary foreign workers and foreign so-called students who are only here to work. 

The huddling gets worse and becomes a self-feeding problem. Again we've seen this in countless european cities. No go zones for police, pockets of complete unrest and lawlessness, that is what happens.

And no it doesn't look like they're going to get those jobs. We appear to be heading into a Time of significant economic downturn which will radically impact the kind of jobs those people would normally take. And at the same time high inflation has meant that even if they do have a job they probably can't get by.

 

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Right, well, I'm willing to allow the 0.03% or so of immigrants who are tradesmen and doctors to come in anyway.

Not nearly enough. And the ratio is considerably higher than 3% of 1% as you propose. In addition if we don't let their families in they're not coming. And the fact is we need them

Quote

Yeah, too bad. But the thing is, they're supposed to be for educating Canadians, not profit-making institutions that gorge on foreign students so they can hire legions of know-nothing administrators.

The unfortunate fact is they have allowed the circumstances to become that the gorging is what pays for the educating of our people. If we get rid of the gorging, and I agree that we should, then our people will have to pay much much higher fees to go to university unless the government steps in and provides additional funding.

And that gets us even more civil unrest. The universities go Bonkers and try and organize all the kids to elect left-wing governments who will feed them and riot in the streets until things get better. Some of that is going to be inevitable but if you make it really bad then there are consequences and you could get the pendulum swinging back the other way even harder than it is right now.

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No, they did not. Our economy was centred on the resource industry and the Liberals have spent nine years doing everything in their power to destroy it. In tandem with slashing immigration we can slash all the regulatory nonsense that restricts the resource industry and get our economy moving again.

I'm afraid they did and that's just not how economies work. While I agree 100% that we need to turn the resource Industries back on it will be a long time before we can build that up enough to change our society back to the way it was.

 

And frankly even then our economy has always required a certain level of immigration. Canada has always had much higher immigration rates than virtually any other country over sustained periods of time.

We should definitely significantly reduce immigration, but we can't go to zero without trashing the economy. That's just the way it is

[I am Groot]

5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

First off mass immigration doesn't mean anything. It's what followers of Mad Max say to sound cool, but have never been able to describe what a "mass" of immigrants is. 

Mass immigration is when hundreds of thousands of people pour across the border every year that you know little or nothing about. As opposed to careful, precise immigration where people are selected due to their high likelihood of earning above median salaries and contribute to Canada. Mass immigration is a number plucked from the arse of a politician to sound good when he virtue signals to ethnic groups as opposed to a number chosen by demographics and employment experts. Hundreds of thousands qualify as a 'mass' in almost anyone's books. 

 

5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

\What we're talking about is excessive immigration. Immigration in excess of our ability to absorb or incorporate in our country. Immigration in excess of our capacity to provide for the new immigrants.

Which has been the situation for a quarter century now. Yes, it existed under Stephen Harper, too. And he did nothing about it.

5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Absolutely. Because there's a HUGE gaping hole right now between what we can build and what we will need. Do you think builders are going to just stop building because they will only barely, perhaps, be able to almost meet demand instead? 

No. As I posted earlier, Immigration Canada was warning their political masters back in 2017 that Canada was losing its ability to absorb immigrants because of too much immigration having gone on for too long. Every single economic outcome for immigrants was going down, as was every single indication of integration. Yes, Trudeau made it so bad that even the sheep in the mainstream media had to finally break the blockade on reporting anything that wasn't pro-immigration. 

5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

The huddling gets worse and becomes a self-feeding problem. Again we've seen this in countless european cities. No go zones for police, pockets of complete unrest and lawlessness, that is what happens.

That is what happens when you have a liberal government that refuses to enforce the laws or deport anyone.

5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

And no it doesn't look like they're going to get those jobs. We appear to be heading into a Time of significant economic downturn which will radically impact the kind of jobs those people would normally take. And at the same time high inflation has meant that even if they do have a job they probably can't get by.

So it's not time to keep bringing a huge number of unskilled third world laborers. 

5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

 

Not nearly enough. And the ratio is considerably higher than 3% of 1% as you propose. In addition if we don't let their families in they're not coming. And the fact is we need them

How high is it then? According to this less than 1% of immigrants entered under the skilled trades program. We're bringing in roughly 4k healthcare workers a year out of about 350k immigrants.

5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

The unfortunate fact is they have allowed the circumstances to become that the gorging is what pays for the educating of our people. If we get rid of the gorging, and I agree that we should, then our people will have to pay much much higher fees to go to university unless the government steps in and provides additional funding.

Or we could have provincial governments audit the universities, fire all kinds of useless administrative staff, and cancel dumbass humanities and 'studies' courses that are totally useless to the country's economy.

 

5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

We should definitely significantly reduce immigration, but we can't go to zero without trashing the economy. That's just the way it is

I didn't say zero. I think we should specifically target high earners, high skilled people, esp healthcare workers and tradesmen. And we should target couples that are both educated and skilled rather than single earners whose wives can't speak English, don't have any job skill, and  will stay home collecting child benefit cheques. 

Edited October 29, 2024 by I am Groot

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

Mass immigration is when hundreds of thousands of people pour across the border every year that you know little or nothing about.

why is that 'mass' immigration?  That's just immigration. 

Quote

As opposed to careful, precise immigration where people are selected due to their high likelihood of earning above median salaries and contribute to Canada. Mass immigration is a number plucked from the arse of a politician to sound good when he virtue signals to ethnic groups as opposed to a number chosen by demographics and employment experts. Hundreds of thousands qualify as a 'mass' in almost anyone's books. 

so then it's just regular immigration that you've decided you don't like. 

Sounds like you mean 'unscreened' immigration or 'untested' immigration rather than 'mass' 

 

Quote

Which has been the situation for a quarter century now. Yes, it existed under Stephen Harper, too. And he did nothing about it.

He did in fact.

In 2006 harper brought in an entirely new set of rules to test and award "points" to immigrants to begin to filter out the less desirable and give priority to highly desirable immigrants. 

As a result of that there was a huge change in the success of immigrants. Prior to that immigrants tended to be a net drain on canada for most their lives, but their CHILDREN tended to be highly successful and productive. With the new changes, immigrants on the whole became net benefactors of canada within a relatively short period of time, a matter of years rather than decades.  AND their children still tended to be above average contributers. 

This is all well documented and researched, do a couple of web searches on it and you'll see the details. It was a massively effective reform. 

Doesn't mean there isn't more to do but if you claim harper did nothing you're speaking from ignorance. 

 

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No. As I posted earlier, Immigration Canada was warning their political masters back in 2017 that Canada was losing its ability to absorb immigrants because of too much immigration having gone on for too long.

Sure but that doesn't address my point about builders if you say there will be no immigrants tomorrow. IF they know there's not going to be new customers, they're going to severely scale back their production.

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Every single economic outcome for immigrants was going down, as was every single indication of integration. Yes, Trudeau made it so bad that even the sheep in the mainstream media had to finally break the blockade on reporting anything that wasn't pro-immigration. 

Sure. No argument.

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That is what happens when you have a liberal government that refuses to enforce the laws or deport anyone.

You're right.

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So it's not time to keep bringing a huge number of unskilled third world laborers. 

Agreed but that's not the same as saying we should bring in  NO people.

How high is it then? According to this less than 1% of immigrants entered under the skilled trades program. We're bringing in roughly 4k healthcare workers a year out of about 350k immigrants.

Well from an education point of view a lot higher than that. 

Trends in education–occupation mismatch among recent immigrants with a bachelor’s degree or higher, 2001 to 2021

About 55.3% of recent immigrants and 39.8% of established immigrants had a bachelor’s degree or higher, compared with 32.6% of Canadian-born people aged 25 to 34 years and 24.8% of Canadian-born people aged 35 to 64 years.

That would include doctors nurses engineers and a bunch of other skilled people. 

And remember there's more than one fastrack program for skilled people

Canada welcomes immigrants but their skills are underused

Around 60 per cent of immigrants come to Canada under economic programs such as Express Entry (EE) or Canadian Experience Class (CEC), according to Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada. New entrants to the country are evaluated on education, work experience, age and language proficiency. As a result, the immigration population is predominantly young and educated with professional work experience.

Interesting to read about how the skills are underutilized tho. 
 

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Or we could have provincial governments audit the universities, fire all kinds of useless administrative staff, and cancel dumbass humanities and 'studies' courses that are totally useless to the country's economy.

Well for the most part the universities aren't actually government-owned facilities and the government can't fire anybody

I have to admit I have thought before of the idea of the government deciding on an individual basis which programs they will fund and which ones they won't when it comes to subsidies for students. Right now students only pay about 20% of what an actual course costs, the rest is funded by the taxpayer. I would not mind seeing something that defunds those programs which are not seen to be commercially or financially viable career choices. I don't see why I should be paying for someone to study lesbian dance history. 

However my fear would be they left woke would use that against us later on, only funding those programs that had a strong woke left application and following and charging full price for business and engineering students

 

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I didn't say zero. I think we should specifically target high earners, high skilled people, esp healthcare workers and tradesmen. And we should target couples that are both educated and skilled rather than single earners whose wives can't speak English, don't have any job skill, and  will stay home collecting child benefit cheques. 

Okay, we are on the same page there more or less. I do believe in our point system and I do believe that it could be further refined to be even more effective.

I also believe that on top of that we do need to put a cap on the number of immigrants allowed regardless and that cap should be based on our ability to provide new resources such as homes and medicine. No matter how good the applicant is we can't let more people in than we can afford to house or care for.

[August1991]

On 10/28/2024 at 1:00 PM, CdnFox said:

Quebecers had no interest in going to the west.

 

Disagree strongly.

Sifton refused.

=====

Rich, Trudeau Snr and JFK were born in the 1910s. They saw what was happening.

Poor but smart, Nixon (b. 1913) understood better.

[CdnFox]

42 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Disagree strongly.

 

That's because you're not terribly bright so there's not really a lot of point in discussing it

[August1991]

10 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

That's because you're not terribly bright so there's not really a lot of point in discussing it

Disagree.

Before 1914, ordinary people lived well.

Because an elite f*cked everything, the civilised world collapsed in the summer 1914.

 

[paradox34]

On 10/27/2024 at 5:06 PM, I am Groot said:

For whom? I bet it won't make things worse for people trying to rent an apartment or find a job.

We have the fastest population growth in the Western world. That's a helluva far cry from just slowly increasing the population. And even the latter is a ponzi scheme that has to end eventually. The parts of our economy that use most of the new immigrants are the service sector and tech. The service sector contributes very little to our economy. The tech sector is a mess that relies on cheap foreign labour and is largely made up of branch plants of foreign companies. The low wages it pays drives Canadian tech employees out of the country, and trading skilled tech workers trained in Canada for the slapdash tech workers from India is a really bad idea. 

Even so, if most of the immigrants were highly skilled it wouldn't be so bad. At least they'd be paying taxes. But most are not. 

 

Canada has no economy. We have become hewers of wood and diggers of rock just as we were in the 1700's. I'm tired of politicians importing professionals instead of training Canadians. Our schools are full of tutored foreign students because government and school boards see no further than cash flow. Why are we subsidizing the education of foreigners! My doctor, dentist and accountant are all immigrants!

[I am Groot]

On 10/29/2024 at 8:57 PM, CdnFox said:

He did in fact.

In 2006 harper brought in an entirely new set of rules to test and award "points" to immigrants to begin to filter out the less desirable and give priority to highly desirable immigrants. 

And it only applied to between 15%-17% of immigrants.

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columnists/bissett-immigration-policy-is-out-of-control-and-needs-an-overhaul

 

On 10/29/2024 at 8:57 PM, CdnFox said:

As a result of that there was a huge change in the success of immigrants. Prior to that immigrants tended to be a net drain on canada for most their lives, but their CHILDREN tended to be highly successful and productive. With the new changes, immigrants on the whole became net benefactors of canada within a relatively short period of time, a matter of years rather than decades.  AND their children still tended to be above average contributers. 

I don't see it this way. Things improved somewhat, but immigrants continued to earn less than Canadians. And a certain number of immigrants, depending on where in the world they came from, earned MUCH less than Canadians, or for that matter, immigrants from other regions.

On 10/29/2024 at 8:57 PM, CdnFox said:

Sure but that doesn't address my point about builders if you say there will be no immigrants tomorrow. IF they know there's not going to be new customers, they're going to severely scale back their production.

First, I never said no immigrants. Second, they will always build enough to meet demand, whatever that demand is. I don't care if the demand slackens and builders build fewer homes then. Those workers will go and do something else.

On 10/29/2024 at 8:57 PM, CdnFox said:

How high is it then? According to this less than 1% of immigrants entered under the skilled trades program. We're bringing in roughly 4k healthcare workers a year out of about 350k immigrants.

Well from an education point of view a lot higher than that. 

Trends in education–occupation mismatch among recent immigrants with a bachelor’s degree or higher, 2001 to 2021

About 55.3% of recent immigrants and 39.8% of established immigrants had a bachelor’s degree or higher, compared with 32.6% of Canadian-born people aged 25 to 34 years and 24.8% of Canadian-born people aged 35 to 64 years.

I could get a dozen degrees within a week. Would that impress you? There are whole industries given over to faking professional credentials in places like India, Pakistan and China. They not only provide your pretty degree but a phone number for employers to call to verify it, and even a nice web site showing their wonderful campuses.

And Canada does virtually nothing to check on this. How can we when we're up to half a million immigrants a year? Nor do we do any interviews with the guy who says he's got a PHD in applied science or a masters in engineering. Other countries make them do interviews via computer with professionals who can query them on what they know. Other countries make them do in-person interviews with cosular officers who will query them to see what kind of person they are, how adaptable and open-minded, what they think of various social and religious beliefs. We do no interviews. None. You wouldn't hire a guy to work in a fast food restaurant without an interview but we invite people in to become lifelong Canadians and put no effort into it.

 

On 10/29/2024 at 8:57 PM, CdnFox said:

Well for the most part the universities aren't actually government-owned facilities and the government can't fire anybody

He who pays the piper calls the tune. The Trudeau government has not been shy about requiring universities to earn their grants by demonstrating how earnest they are about DEI and giving preference to nonsense studies on gender and race rather than science. The provinces have far more levers to pull to get what they want if they chose to pull them. They can force universities to cut back on the administrators, and to ditch courses that serve no useful purpose.

 

On 10/29/2024 at 8:57 PM, CdnFox said:

However my fear would be they left woke would use that against us later on, only funding those programs that had a strong woke left application and following and charging full price for business and engineering students

They already do this! The traditional studies in many liberal arts courses, from History to English to Social sciences have been twisted away from 'old dead white men' to focus on African scholars and writers and 'indigenous people's ways of knowing'. Even the hard sciences are being impacted now. 

But you don't see it because left-wing governments have no need to step in to do what the left-wing ideologues in academia are already doing.

On 10/29/2024 at 8:57 PM, CdnFox said:

I also believe that on top of that we do need to put a cap on the number of immigrants allowed regardless and that cap should be based on our ability to provide new resources such as homes and medicine.

It should also be based on how much Canada can absorb and integrate unless we want everything about the character, values, and culture of Canada to be twisted into something unrecognizable and often pretty ugly.