Some Liberal MPs are mounting a new effort to oust Justin Trudeau

[Moonlight Graham]

On 10/22/2024 at 1:13 PM, paradox34 said:

The removal of JT will solve nothing. He is after all merely a figurehead. The destruction of Canada and Western society will only continue and accelerate unless liberal ideology is rejected and destroyed. Greatness is achieved through commonality in vision and effort. Woke DEI is destructive, exclusion and indoctrination.

Truer words have never been said on this forum.

Socially leftwing ideology has become a suicidal death-cult and its become increasingly more destructive over the last 60 years (not to say its all been bad).  It needs to be destroyed or it will destroy us.  I'd much rather have a leader and party who behave a little bit like a-holes than like guilt-ridden submissive wimps who are unable to defend this country, our society, culture, history, etc.  We need to grow a backbone again and stand up for ourselves.

The scary thing is that in many ways the Liberal party and their supporters may not even know it.  You know what they say about good intentions...

[Moonlight Graham]

On 10/13/2024 at 7:03 PM, eyeball said:

I'm left imagining a nationalist separatist opposition against a government with the support of substantial numbers of western separatists and millions of others who've been more than happy to say arrivederci to Quebec for decades.

Poilievre will apparently be putting the indians back in their place where they belong too.

It should interesting times - like the old curse.

 

I think the prairies will be placated by having a conservative government led by an Albertan as PM.

I'm convinced the only way to really placate Quebec longterm is to remove the monarchy.  They feel like a conquered people, which they are (Plains of Abraham in Quebec City).  The indigenous would also approve.  This would be extremely difficult however.

[Michael Hardner]

4 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Truer words have never been said on this forum.

Socially leftwing ideology has become a suicidal death-cult and its become increasingly more destructive over the last 60 years (not to say its all been bad).  It needs to be destroyed or it will destroy us.  I'd much rather have a leader and party who behave a little bit like a-holes than like guilt-ridden submissive wimps who are unable to defend this country, our society, culture, history, etc.  We need to grow a backbone again and stand up for ourselves.

The scary thing is that in many ways the Liberal party and their supporters may not even know it.  You know what they say about good intentions...

All of our ills come from, or are worsened by economic troubles at the root.

What do you think is going to happen to improve such things?

[ExFlyer]

7 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Rearranging the chairs on the Titanic.

I think the Liberal Party is almost as disgusting a party as the GOP.  Both a bunch of corrupt incompetent loons, just opposite sides of the spectrum.

Ha Ha Ha .That can be and is said of any party that is or has been in power for any length of time LOL

“Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Men are almost always bad men, even when they exercise influence and not authority.”  Lord Acton

[eyeball]

10 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Well I only voted for Trudeau once in 2015 to boot out Harper...

...I saw the writing on the wall several years ago.

I haven't voted for a Liberal in nearly 50 years. The writing has been on the wall a long long time.

[eyeball]

10 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I'm convinced the only way to really placate Quebec longterm is to remove the monarchy.  They feel like a conquered people, which they are (Plains of Abraham in Quebec City).

And yet you struggle to understand why Palestinians still resist their subjugation.

10 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

The indigenous would also approve.  This would be extremely difficult however.

Wait until Quebec tries to separate - First Nations will stop that in its tracks like there's no tomorrow.

[Moonlight Graham]

11 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

All of our ills come from, or are worsened by economic troubles at the root.

What do you think is going to happen to improve such things?

Red herring.  This is assumes we have no social problems in society.  I disagree.

"I don't like talking about this and don't see this as a problem so i want to change the subject" isn't much of an argument.  It's a red herring logical fallacy which you do often on social issue discussion.

Yes we have economic problems too, many which the Liberals have either caused or made worse.  Socially and economically they have failed this country.  Their ideology needs to be acknowledged for the toxic nonsense that it is, its spread is a cancer on society.  The people who have kept voting for this party the last few elections have failed this country.  Voting NDP isn't any better and they've only propped up this government.

Edited October 25, 2024 by Moonlight Graham

[Moonlight Graham]

7 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Ha Ha Ha .That can be and is said of any party that is or has been in power for any length of time LOL

“Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Men are almost always bad men, even when they exercise influence and not authority.”  Lord Acton

The Harper gov was in power for longer I believe and wasn't nearly as bad as the Liberals.  No saints but this is really bad.

Any Liberal MP who can sit in caucus with this government doesn't have any respect from me.  JWR and Jane Philpott are heroes.  They chose ethics over their own political power and stood up to this goon and unethical PM and PMO.  The Liberal MP's who want Trudeau to step down now are sneaking around and afraid to reveal themselves and only want him out because he's bad for their re-election chances.  I have no respect for them.

Country > career

[Moonlight Graham]

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

I haven't voted for a Liberal in nearly 50 years. The writing has been on the wall a long long time.

Did you ever vote for the CPC under Harper?  LOL

[Moonlight Graham]

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

And yet you struggle to understand why Palestinians still resist their subjugation.

I know exactly why Palestinians resist Israel.

Some of their complaints are perfectly understandable and legit.  But I don't feel bad for the Palestinians who either voted for Hamas or support Hamas today.  They complain about "crippling blockades" while they support rocket materials being imported from Iran etc and fired at Israeli civilians in terrorist attacks and think Israel is just going to let him keep importing whatever materials they want?  They can get bent, they aren't victims, they're authors of their own fates in this circumstance.  The blockades would stop if Hamas stopped this nonsense.

Hamas slaughters 1200 people on Oct 7 and kidnaps hostages and then Palestinians whine when Israel launches strikes to eliminate Hamas, and complains they're blowing up hospitals and mosques when Hamas hides in them.  Get bent.  They whine that Israel is targeting "UN foreign aid workers" while these workers literally participated in the Oct 7 attacks.  Get f*cked.

Their enemy is Hamas and yet many of them are in the streets of Canada and elsewhere cheering support for Hamas on Oct 7 and its anniversary.  They can all get f*cked.  Anyone cheering on Oct 7 should get deported & stripped of their citizenship as a terrorist supporter.  Oh but "A Canadian is a Canadian" LOL.

Some people's egos are too big to look in the mirror and own their own sh*t.  Much easier to play the victim and blame others for your problems.

Quote

Wait until Quebec tries to separate - First Nations will stop that in its tracks like there's no tomorrow.

I agree.

[herbie]

22 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

They chose ethics over their own political power

Nice try there.
They see their seats being lost in a landslide if they can't get a new leader.
Like I said, coaches call for a last minute Hail Mary when it's the only option. And it worked well for US Democrats.

[Moonlight Graham]

Anyone who voted NDP or Liberal last federal election is a naive fool who need to reexamine their belief systems.  Luckily O'Toole's conservatives won the popular vote last election so that gives me some hope for this country.  Scheer wasn't as good a leader as O'Toole but they won the popular vote as well in that election too.  A plurality of Canadians are on my side.

3 minutes ago, herbie said:

Nice try there.
They see their seats being lost in a landslide if they can't get a new leader.
Like I said, coaches call for a last minute Hail Mary when it's the only option. And it worked well for US Democrats.

I was talking about JWR and Jane Philpott, not the current MP's against Trudeau.  They're just in it for themselves.

[eyeball]

32 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Did you ever vote for the CPC under Harper?  LOL

Nope. It didn't last due to tainted tuna but I cut the PCs some slack when John Fraser was Fisheries Minister. He was the only Fisheries Minister I recall who ever took a fairer unbiased stance towards competing fishing sectors.

Liberals always favoured big fishing corporations. Always...without fail.

Of course Conservatives went on to sign try Pacific Salmon Treaty which spelled our death knell...so fu ck Ottawa.

 

 

[herbie]

5 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Anyone who voted NDP or Liberal last federal election is a naive fool who need to reexamine their belief systems

I'd say those who'd support someone who's still pitching a carbon tax election and revealing nothing else of their platform would be Brainiacs then? Change > Solutions?

[Moonlight Graham]

8 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Nope. It didn't last due to tainted tuna but I cut the PCs some slack when John Fraser was Fisheries Minister. He was the only Fisheries Minister I recall who ever took a fairer unbiased stance towards competing fishing sectors.

Liberals always favoured big fishing corporations. Always...without fail.

Of course Conservatives went on to sign try Pacific Salmon Treaty which spelled our death knell...so fu ck Ottawa.

You sounds like an Albertan, but fish instead of oil.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

1. Red herring.  This is assumes we have no social problems in society.  I disagree.

2. "I don't like talking about this and don't see this as a problem so i want to change the subject" isn't much of an argument.  It's a red herring logical fallacy which you do often on social issue discussion.

3. Yes we have economic problems too, many which the Liberals have either caused or made worse.  Socially and economically they have failed this country.  Their ideology needs to be acknowledged for the toxic nonsense that it is, its spread is a cancer on society.  The people who have kept voting for this party the last few elections have failed this country.  Voting NDP isn't any better and they've only propped up this government.

1. I don't think that's true. I do think that in tough times people start blaming groups, and there are many examples. 

2. There isn't really much to discuss when you just want to point fingers at groups, or weird scapegoats like trans people. I when a new government comes in and makes all these anti-trans laws, how are things going to be better? We will still have huge productivity issues, economic questions, debt etc 

3. That's fine, but you always put it as the sidebar.

[Moonlight Graham]

25 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I don't think that's true. I do think that in tough times people start blaming groups, and there are many examples. 

2. There isn't really much to discuss when you just want to point fingers at groups, or weird scapegoats like trans people. I when a new government comes in and makes all these anti-trans laws, how are things going to be better? We will still have huge productivity issues, economic questions, debt etc 

3. That's fine, but you always put it as the sidebar.

1.  Which groups have a i blamed?  I'm blaming ideas.  Leftwing ideology.  The Liberals are believers so they're part of our social problems (and economic).  Since you're a mainstream progressive I don't expect you to agree.  I'm not saying 100% of leftwing social policies are bad.  Civil rights in the 1960's wasn't bad.

2.  This is a strawman.  When have I blamed "trans people" for anything?  Trans people are like 1% of our population and aren't responsible for our problems.

I'm hoping the CPC can help reverse many of these Liberal policies, economic and social, and return many things closer to as they were under Harper (before JT took over).  Heck I'll take a Chretien at this point, at least he seemed fiscally responsible and not a leftwing wingnut.  The Chretien Liberals are probably a thing of the past and not coming back any time soon.  The NDP are even more socially leftist than the Liberals.

Given the scope of our problems and how the Liberals and NDP have handled them, anyone besides trans people who votes against the CPC because of potential anti-trans policies and carbon tax policies is a fools.  The impact of these policies are so minimal its ridiculous.  So go vote green or NDP or whomever.

3.  Huh?  I've been arguing about housing prices (and have NEVER only blamed immigration #'s) and Liberal deficits since pre-COVID and I keep getting Liberal-supporting fools defending the Liberal policies.

We've had this same discussion several times.  I'm not having it any more.  If you want to start a thread on economic issues you're free to do so.  If you want to remain a card-carrying woke progressive you're free to do so.

Edited October 25, 2024 by Moonlight Graham

[Army Guy]

21 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

33% approval rating.

https://www.ipsos.com/en-ca/approval-trudeaus-performance-just-33-canadians-call-parliament-focus-cost-living

I voted for him in 2015 to get rid of Harper who was turning into a goon, but definitely not since.  He's been a lot worse than Harper as a goon and almost every other aspect.

I shake my head at how anyone could still support Justins liberals or NDP for that matter after what those two have done to this nation....and how many new major  problems they have introduced...It would seem a full 1/3 of Canadians either don't care or they prefer this kind of leadership which does nothing for the country actually.

I'm told it takes all kinds to make a village, i just wonder why so many Canadians tolerate such a low standard for a nation's leader...And continue to support this , what ever you call it government ....We need to become more educated and more interested in our politics.... or allow it to burn to the ground and start over... 

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

You sounds like an Albertan, but fish instead of oil.

Except oil is a provincial jurisdiction.

If Ottawa treated Albertan oil the way they treated BC salmon, Alberta would have long long since separated.

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Except oil is a provincial jurisdiction.

If Ottawa treated Albertan oil the way they treated BC salmon, Alberta would have long long since separated.

So... never heard of  NEP i take it?

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

1.  Which groups have a i blamed?  I'm blaming ideas.  Leftwing ideology.  The Liberals are believers so they're part of our social problems (and economic).  Since you're a mainstream progressive I don't expect you to agree.  I'm not saying 100% of leftwing social policies are bad.  Civil rights in the 1960's wasn't bad.

2.  This is a strawman.  When have I blamed "trans people" for anything?  Trans people are like 1% of our population and aren't responsible for our problems.

3. I'm hoping the CPC can help reverse many of these Liberal policies, economic and social, and return many things closer to as they were under Harper (before JT took over). 

4. We've had this same discussion several times.  I'm not having it any more.  If you want to start a thread on economic issues you're free to do so.  If you want to remain a card-carrying woke progressive you're free to do so.

1. I'm not saying you're blaming anyone. But populists are always blaming some group... Be it welfare Queens, gays, Mexicans.... They move from group to group. 

2. Not you per se but the auntie woke people....  The New Brunswick Premier and the Saskatchewan Premier making such a big deal about pronouns in the school.  

Who cares? 

3. Like when Mexicans didn't need a visa to come to Canada you mean? Yes, we all want the economy to be better, yada yada yada.  So let's have some specific policies from the opposition parties and less auntie woke and Marxist hunting.  JT just did the unthinkable in cutting immigration.  This creates a big problem for the CPC.

4. Ok then stop responding.  If you want to address our problems, talk about the economy and not auntie woke BS.  We have real problems.  JT pushing wokeism in the face of major problems might not make sense, but focusing on that as the problem doesn't either.  And I'm referring to your post in THIS thread.

[eyeball]

38 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

JT pushing wokeism in the face of major problems might not make sense

Pushing wokeism makes more sense if the intent is to distract from the fact there are no solutions to the major problems.

The same will be just as true when pushing back, along with a heaping helping of blame-the-last-guys.

Would abandoning false hope help us to tackle the climate crisis? Leaders are eager to fill us with positivity, but research shows people in distress are more likely to take collective action

If despair is the most unforgivable sin, then hope is surely the most abused virtue.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/oct/24/we-need-a-dash-of-hope-but-is-too-much-diverting-our-gaze-from-the-perils-of-the-climate-crisis#webview=1

 

[Moonlight Graham]

6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I'm not saying you're blaming anyone. But populists are always blaming some group... Be it welfare Queens, gays, Mexicans.... They move from group to group. 

2. Not you per se but the auntie woke people....  The New Brunswick Premier and the Saskatchewan Premier making such a big deal about pronouns in the school.  

Who cares? 

3. Like when Mexicans didn't need a visa to come to Canada you mean?

4. Yes, we all want the economy to be better, yada yada yada.  So let's have some specific policies from the opposition parties and less auntie woke and Marxist hunting.  JT just did the unthinkable in cutting immigration.  This creates a big problem for the CPC.

5. Ok then stop responding.  If you want to address our problems, talk about the economy and not auntie woke BS.  We have real problems.  JT pushing wokeism in the face of major problems might not make sense, but focusing on that as the problem doesn't either.  And I'm referring to your post in THIS thread.

1.  You just said "There isn't really much to discuss when you just want to point fingers at groups, or weird scapegoats like trans people."  Stop gaslighting me dude.  You do it ALL THE TIME.

2.  The problems with social leftism go far, far beyond trans policies and are far more harmful to our society than our current economic problems.  They're slowly destroying western civilization itself.  The very basis for our societies, the family unit, has been greatly eroded over the past 60 years because of progressive ideology.  People aren't having kids, and the ones that are aren't having enough to sustain our populations.  No society can sustain itself this way.  High immigration isn't a cause in any way whatsoever, immigrants aren't to blame and shouldn't be a scapegoat for this, and when they move here they often adopt our sick culture.  This is 100% self-inflicted.  We have nobody to blame but ourselves.  At this point, most "third world" cultures are superior to ours because at least they're not headed for extinction.

3.  That's one example yes.

4.  Well JT also just admitted that his policies have been harmful to the economy and his party effed up.  More likely he just wants the votes.

5.  I'm free to talk about anything I see as problems.  You can agree or disagree but you have no right to tell me what I should think are problems or not.  Why you keep doing this I have no idea.

[CdnFox]

9 hours ago, eyeball said:

Pushing wokeism makes more sense if the intent is to distract from the fact there are no solutions to the major problems.

 

 

There are solutions. They just don't like them because it goes against their ideology. Woke is an exists for Wilkinson's sake and nothing else.

[Michael Hardner]

5 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

  The problems with social leftism go far, far beyond trans policies and are far more harmful to our society than our current economic problems.  They're slowly destroying western civilization itself.  The very basis for our societies, the family unit, has been greatly eroded over the past 60 years because of progressive ideology.  People aren't having kids, and the ones that are aren't having enough to sustain our populations.  No society can sustain itself this way.  High immigration isn't a cause in any way whatsoever, immigrants aren't to blame and shouldn't be a scapegoat for this, and when they move here they often adopt our sick culture.  This is 100% self-inflicted.  We have nobody to blame but ourselves.  At this point, most "third world" cultures are superior to ours because at least they're not headed for extinction.

 

I will just respond to this part: it's paranoid and incorrect.  You can't blame all social change in an open society on an ideology where people have free choice.  

Respond on the other forum, that's where I put the response to the other long post.