The Only Patriotic Choice for President

[SkyHigh]

4 hours ago, Nationalist said:

OK... your pemise is we have more freedom in Canada. Lets discuss Canadian freedom. Lets compare it to US state of affairs and European...so we're inclusive...and before we do, as my name here suggests, I am a Nationalist and I love Canada. I do however...lament for Canada...as I do for the entire Western World.

We know that property ownership does not really exist in Canada. In the US you can shoot someone dead if they threaten you or your property. 

Which brings about the question of self defense and...guns. I think we can all agree the Americans have much more freedom with respect to guns and self defense.

What freedoms do you think Canada has that the US does not?

We agree that the ability of the government to expropriate someones land is definitely an infringement of our rights.

Now the ability to defend ones self or property, I'm not sure that's in question

I'm of course not referring to the ability to use a fire arm but I think that's a whole other conversation

So yes on guns , not so sure about self defense.

Now, freedoms Canada has the US doesn't.

For the sake of this argument, if we could stick to financial freedoms not only a subject near and dear to my heart but also in my opinion a key factor in a successful capitalist society (we can widen the scope later) Agreed?

Two factors I'd like to focus on are mobility and barriers of entry with social programs ie; Health care (yes it has problems but again another conversation) we have a higher threshold of risk, more ability to leave comfortable jobs and still be assured the essentials for you and your family, this also includes the ability to staff during the start up period when the ability to provide benefits can be more difficult and for mobility we can often more to other parts of the country with limited competency requirements ( of course not in all circumstances but again another conversation, man we have months of conversations to look forward to, hahaha) and not only hit the ground running but again are almost instantly covered by things like workers comp, etc...

These are essential components to "freedom" (again subjective) in my opinion 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2024 by SkyHigh

[SkyHigh]

36 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Then why don't you lead by example. Shall we review some of  Your posts for that kind of crap?

Why don't you just actually address his points, ignore the bullshit holier-than-tho crap and lead by example. 

🥱 Take a hint son.

[SkyHigh]

8 hours ago, impartialobserver said:

I read Das Kapital from cover to cover in undergrad. So when I criticize it.. I actually know what I am talking about much like yourself. Interesting how universities are so liberal and yet my professor (female and liberal) tore Marx's theories to pieces. She thought that he was a waste of our time but knew that everybody would demand that we study him. 

I would in no way say "I know what I'm talking about",,but I do make an earnest attempt to evaluate all sides of an issue before coming to a conclusion.and in my younger days when my political philosophy was more utopic I explored.

What's the Churchill quote.(I'm paraphraseing) "If you're not a socialist at 20 you have no heart, if you're still a socialist at 40, you have no brain" love that one 

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, SkyHigh said:

🥱 Take a hint son.

So no answer? You demand high standards of others but can't follow your own advice?

Why it's almost as if you were a leftie  

[SkyHigh]

5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

So no answer? You demand high standards of others but can't follow your own advice?

Why it's almost as if you were a leftie  

I'm flattered, but as I already told you I'm not interested, I date women exclusively 

[Michael Hardner]

21 hours ago, impartialobserver said:

 Effectively ignoring him.  

You can do that on this board too !

[Michael Hardner]

18 hours ago, impartialobserver said:

 Again, I come at this from the economics standpoint being that I have 2 degrees in it and have read the book for an economics course. 

Therefore someone who doesn't know ANYTHING about it and "gets the gist of it" can discuss with you on an equal footing.... but ONLY if they are a Chud who has no respect for knowledge and whose ego can't bear the idea of not knowing something that someone else knows...

[Michael Hardner]

13 hours ago, SkyHigh said:

 ...how about not calling me offensive things like pervert or Démocrate 

Not possible for some.  They can only conceive of a world with evil forces, versus what we have today: a lot of small personal failures and negative traits multiplying over a whole population to create a confluence of mess.

[Michael Hardner]

13 hours ago, SkyHigh said:

We agree that the ability of the government to expropriate someones land is definitely an infringement of our rights.

You let something slip by you, which is an idea that property rights are more secure in the USA, ostensibly because you are allowed to defend your property with firearms.

What you can't defend it against is something called eminent domain seizure.  That means that the government takes your property, "fairly" compensates you, then sells the land cheap to a big box or developer or a Wal-Mart.

https://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/article/Your-Casa-Is-Wal-Mart-s-Casa-Invocation-of-2696359.php

 

Quote

In Hurst, Texas, the properties on which 127 homes stood were taken by eminent domain and sold to a private real estate developer to make room for a mall expansion.

Sometimes, in order for seizure to be legal, the lawmakers twist the definition of blight in patently obscene ways. In Lancaster, Calif., a 19-acre city park with more than 100 trees was declared blighted before being paved to make room for a new Costco. 

 

[impartialobserver]

12 hours ago, SkyHigh said:

I would in no way say "I know what I'm talking about",,but I do make an earnest attempt to evaluate all sides of an issue before coming to a conclusion.and in my younger days when my political philosophy was more utopic I explored.

What's the Churchill quote.(I'm paraphraseing) "If you're not a socialist at 20 you have no heart, if you're still a socialist at 40, you have no brain" love that one 

It does take some work to get past what we know about Stalin, Lenin, Mao, etc and evaluate Marx based purely on the context of his time. Marx was more of a philosopher and storyteller than anything. His work (while deeply flawed) has been misconstrued to the point where few actually know what Marx was trying to say. If you strip away the atrocities done in his name later on, you find that his theories were more about evolution than politics or government. 

[WestCanMan]

19 hours ago, impartialobserver said:

 those who own the factories/businesses are inherently exploiting labor. 

Here's exploiting 'labour':

• you tell people that there are sanctuary cities for them if they get across the border, you ensure that they can get across in large numbers, but when they do they aren't full citizens with SIN numbers so they can only work under the table for cheap, so they work in the slaughterhouses and all the other shittiest jobs for very little money and live in crowded slums where they're not allowed to vote, etc. 

[impartialobserver]

1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

Here's exploiting 'labour':

• you tell people that there are sanctuary cities for them if they get across the border, you ensure that they can get across in large numbers, but when they do they aren't full citizens with SIN numbers so they can only work under the table for cheap, so they work in the slaughterhouses and all the other shittiest jobs for very little money and live in crowded slums where they're not allowed to vote, etc. 

This is unrelated to my point. 

[WestCanMan]

2 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

This is unrelated to my point. 

I understand why you feel that way.

[impartialobserver]

Just now, WestCanMan said:

I understand why you feel that way.

I am talking about Marx. Clear enough? Marx and sanctuary cities are not the same... no matter how you twist it. 

[WestCanMan]

28 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

I am talking about Marx. Clear enough? Marx and sanctuary cities are not the same... no matter how you twist it. 

I'm talking about national policies allowing the 'exploitation of humans/labour' to such a great extent that it's no different from serfdom or slavery.

Can illegals buy land or vote?

It's weird to have such a 'deep understanding' of the lives of people in a book from 160 years ago but not see the parallels all around you. 

[SkyHigh]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Not possible for some.  They can only conceive of a world with evil forces, versus what we have today: a lot of small personal failures and negative traits multiplying over a whole population to create a confluence of mess.

Ya some people only see in black and white, so if you don't completely agree with their personal beliefs you're automatically the enemy 

[impartialobserver]

10 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

Ya some people only see in black and white, so if you don't completely agree with their personal beliefs you're automatically the enemy 

or they are seeking affirmation. They come on here wanting to vent and seek like minded individuals. And when you do not give them the affirmation.. they are offended. It really bothers them that you are not bonding or coalescing with them. 

[SkyHigh]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

You let something slip by you, which is an idea that property rights are more secure in the USA, ostensibly because you are allowed to defend your property with firearms.

What you can't defend it against is something called eminent domain seizure.  That means that the government takes your property, "fairly" compensates you, then sells the land cheap to a big box or developer or a Wal-Mart.

https://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/article/Your-Casa-Is-Wal-Mart-s-Casa-Invocation-of-2696359.php

 

 

I don't know enough about eminent domain to be able to make an informed comparison, but I see no reason to doubt you.

As far as the defense of one's property, other than the means of defense, I'm not aware of any laws in Canada that wouldn't allow me to use any reasonable force required to protect my home. 

Is there something specific you're referring to that I lack knowledge?

[SkyHigh]

1 hour ago, impartialobserver said:

It does take some work to get past what we know about Stalin, Lenin, Mao, etc and evaluate Marx based purely on the context of his time. Marx was more of a philosopher and storyteller than anything. His work (while deeply flawed) has been misconstrued to the point where few actually know what Marx was trying to say. If you strip away the atrocities done in his name later on, you find that his theories were more about evolution than politics or government. 

Again, I say this as someone largely ignorant to the intricacies of the subject matter, but I feel the concept of focusing and protecting the worker is primordial to an equal opportunity society, but I also believe that those protections can be attained through regulated capitalism.

 

[SkyHigh]

8 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

or they are seeking affirmation. They come on here wanting to vent and seek like minded individuals. And when you do not give them the affirmation.. they are offended. It really bothers them that you are not bonding or coalescing with them. 

I don't think it's just for affirmation, I think those types of people are just craving anyone to have a real human interaction with them, so whether it be negative or positive, it feeds the same need they have, just that people listen to them, to be able to evoke any emotional response from someone, to feel seen

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Not possible for some.  They can only conceive of a world with evil forces, versus what we have today: a lot of small personal failures and negative traits multiplying over a whole population to create a confluence of mess.

Some can't see themselves as supporting "evil" while they're actively doing it.

"But me hearts is so pure. I wuv doggies an' stuff". 

In this context, "evil" is a gov't that no longer answers to the people because they lie, censor, demonize, cancel and control everything from the FBI/RCMP, to social media, to MSM, and the judicial system.  

They bamboozle you by pretending "It's all about global warming and abortion!", and you're a deer in the headlights. You accept forced vaccination, the seizing of bank accounts, and calling millions of people "racists and misogynists" just for not taking a pseudovax, etc.

[WestCanMan]

Normally when you dunk on leftards they run away and ignore the thread, but for some reason they're not abandoning ship here. They really care about this preposterous thread.

"Kamala the patriot"? 🤣

Not even she would describe herself like that. 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, SkyHigh said:

Ya some people only see in black and white, so if you don't completely agree with their personal beliefs you're automatically the enemy 

Even beyond that, trying to frame an ideology with objective descriptions, and dispassionate tones enrages them 

 

1 hour ago, SkyHigh said:

I don't know enough about eminent domain to be able to make an informed comparison, but I see no reason to doubt you.

As far as the defense of one's property, other than the means of defense, I'm not aware of any laws in Canada that wouldn't allow me to use any reasonable force required to protect my home. 

Is there something specific you're referring to that I lack knowledge?

No, I just want to point out that freedom to not have your house handed to Walmart is probably at least on a par with being able to shoot a gun at a burglar.

[Nationalist]

16 hours ago, SkyHigh said:

We agree that the ability of the government to expropriate someones land is definitely an infringement of our rights.

Now the ability to defend ones self or property, I'm not sure that's in question

I'm of course not referring to the ability to use a fire arm but I think that's a whole other conversation

So yes on guns , not so sure about self defense.

Now, freedoms Canada has the US doesn't.

For the sake of this argument, if we could stick to financial freedoms not only a subject near and dear to my heart but also in my opinion a key factor in a successful capitalist society (we can widen the scope later) Agreed?

Two factors I'd like to focus on are mobility and barriers of entry with social programs ie; Health care (yes it has problems but again another conversation) we have a higher threshold of risk, more ability to leave comfortable jobs and still be assured the essentials for you and your family, this also includes the ability to staff during the start up period when the ability to provide benefits can be more difficult and for mobility we can often more to other parts of the country with limited competency requirements ( of course not in all circumstances but again another conversation, man we have months of conversations to look forward to, hahaha) and not only hit the ground running but again are almost instantly covered by things like workers comp, etc...

These are essential components to "freedom" (again subjective) in my opinion 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

Finally found time to address this.

Unemployment insurance does exist in the US and Europe. So does worker compensation. 

[SkyHigh]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Even beyond that, trying to frame an ideology with objective descriptions, and dispassionate tones enrages them 

 

That's the part I find the most confusing 

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

No, I just want to point out that freedom to not have your house handed to Walmart is probably at least on a par with being able to shoot a gun at a burglar

Oh, it went right over my head. Now that I get it, that's funny (and true))