Tariffs are a Tax on Americans

[August1991]

1 hour ago, Rebound said:

....

A Canadian maple syrup tariff protects domestic maple syrup from primarily American maple syrup.

....

Quebec is the Saudi Arabia of maple syrup production.

And America is the largest buyer of maple syrup - as well as much else.

[robosmith]

15 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Quebec is the Saudi Arabia of maple syrup production.

And America is the largest buyer of maple syrup - as well as much else.

^Has nothing to do with the desire for protection from competition that tariffs provide.

[NAME REMOVED]

7 hours ago, Five of swords said:

This is why the study of economics can actually make you know less about economics.

 

I also heard the study of Medicine can make you a less effective Doctor

The study of engineering can make you less effective at building things.

The study of Accounting can make you less effective at doing your taxes....

[August1991]

21 minutes ago, robosmith said:

^Has nothing to do with the desire for protection from competition that tariffs provide.

If you are a world producer of something (monopoly) - or you are world buyer of something (monopsony) - you can manipulate the world price in your favour.

[robosmith]

14 minutes ago, August1991 said:

If you are a world producer of something (monopoly) - or you are world buyer of something (monopsony) - you can manipulate the world price in your favour.

That's what protection from competition does. Tariffs reduce supply making prices go up. 

[Five of swords]

13 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

I also heard the study of Medicine can make you a less effective Doctor

The study of engineering can make you less effective at building things.

The study of Accounting can make you less effective at doing your taxes....

Absolutely, if you wind up thinking you know more than you do. Drilling holes in the skull is not actually a good way to cure headaches, for example.

[Rebound]

On 9/11/2024 at 1:51 PM, Five of swords said:

Absolutely, if you wind up thinking you know more than you do. Drilling holes in the skull is not actually a good way to cure headaches, for example.

When those headaches are caused by a tumor, drilling holes in the skull, and removing the tumor, is the only cure.  

[CdnFox]

On 9/10/2024 at 9:06 AM, Rebound said:

Trump’s tax plan is terrible for the average American.

A tariff is a tax paid by Americans on the products we buy.  A tariff of 20% means the computers, smartphones, clothing, and most other products you buy will cost 20% more.  China does not pay the tariff, the American taxpayer does. And it is a regressive tax because the poor pay the same rate as the rich.  So it’s great for the rich and sucks for the poor, especially when Trump’s planned tax cuts for the rich and Capitol gains tax cuts are added in. 
 

It’s just the little guy giving money to the rich guy in Trump’s America. Trump’s plan is terrible for most Americans, it’s extremely inflationary, and other nations will retaliate on our exports. 

You realize that Biden has been running extensive tariffs since he got in power right?

[Rebound]

5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

You realize that Biden has been running extensive tariffs since he got in power right?

At an average rate of 2%, not 20% as Trump proposes.  
 

The big exception is Chinese electric cars, which have a 100% tariff, and many Chinese alternative energy products, which face high tariffs to protect domestic manufacturing.  
 

A tariff makes sense when foreign competition is undercutting an existing business, especially when prices are being cut because of foreign government subsidies.  Canada puts a tariff on U.S. milk because the U.S. government subsidizes U.S. dairy farmers.  So either Canada doles out money to her own farmers or else tariffs the imports.  Seems perfectly fair to me. 

[Moonbox]

4 hours ago, Rebound said:

A tariff makes sense when foreign competition is undercutting an existing business, especially when prices are being cut because of foreign government subsidies.  

There are all sorts of reasons when tariffs make sense.  Trump's understanding of macro economics (and almost everything, really) is too simplistic to understand when and where they make sense. 

Tariffing China is one of the few things I think he was right about - ahead of the curve.  It might be inflationary, but that doesn't mean it's bad for the average American worker.  Let's be real - most of the money saved offloading jobs to Bangladesh etc doesn't end up as a discount on the average person's grocery bill.  Some of it does, of course, but just as much or more ends up improving the margins for corporate profits.  That's the reality.  That's why the middle class is disappearing. 

Ultimately some of the stuff Trump complains about is valid, in its own way.  The problem is that he just takes those complaints and amplifies them and represents them in the dumbest possible package.   

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, Rebound said:

At an average rate of 2%, not 20% as Trump proposes.  

So they're great when he does it? 

And what are you even talking about?  Here's the list of tarrifs

Harmonized Tariff Schedule (usitc.gov)

Biden JUST slapped major new tarrifs on many key consumer goods

WATCH: Biden announces new tariffs on Chinese goods including electric vehicles, solar panels | PBS News

And biden had a 'buy america first' polcy which amounted to the same thing. American products were purchased and used even if they were much more expensive.  Where did you think that money came from?

Tarrifs by and large are not a great option for controlling economies. They're a blunt hammer and they can drive prices up. 

But  they also have positive points, and they can drive up investment in american industry, lower costs of american produced goods by increasing volumes produced here, and also drive manufacturing to be done here, for example you can exempt computers that are assembled here even if they have Chinese components. 

You can't just say 'tarrif bad' and ignore the massive tarrifs and exclusions biden did  and not look at what the likely out come would be, the exclusions, the details etc. 

[Rebound]

16 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

There are all sorts of reasons when tariffs make sense.  Trump's understanding of macro economics (and almost everything, really) is too simplistic to understand when and where they make sense. 

Tariffing China is one of the few things I think he was right about - ahead of the curve.  It might be inflationary, but that doesn't mean it's bad for the average American worker.  Let's be real - most of the money saved offloading jobs to Bangladesh etc doesn't end up as a discount on the average person's grocery bill.  Some of it does, of course, but just as much or more ends up improving the margins for corporate profits.  That's the reality.  That's why the middle class is disappearing. 

Ultimately some of the stuff Trump complains about is valid, in its own way.  The problem is that he just takes those complaints and amplifies them and represents them in the dumbest possible package.   

Why would it make sense to tariff imports of goods which are not manufactured in the United States? 

BTW, the Biden Administration today implemented a host of carefully targeted tariffs against China. But that's not the same as a blanket tariff on imports. 

Trump, on the other hand, proposes a 10 to 20 percent tariff on ALL imported goods and a SIXTY PERCENT Tariff on ALL imported Chinese goods. That $1,500 Apple Laptop will cost you $2,400 under Trump. iPhones will jump in price from $800 to $1,280. China won't pay this and neither will Apple! The American consumer will pay it. 

[CdnFox]

13 minutes ago, Rebound said:

Why would it make sense to tariff imports of goods which are not manufactured in the United States? 

There are many reasons and circumstances, but the most common would probably be to use as a bargaining chip. Consider china for example, there are many many products that America manufactures that are not allowed to be sold in china. But china has largely unfettered access to the American Market. This made sense back in the day to keep them out of the hands of the Russians but now it might make sense to start putting significant tariffs on all Chinese goods and then suggest you will lift them on some or all goods provided china gives access to the Chinese market for American Products.

That's just one example. There are plenty of other reasons why you might consider it as well. It just depends on the circumstances and what your goals are

[Moonbox]

44 minutes ago, Rebound said:

Why would it make sense to tariff imports of goods which are not manufactured in the United States? 

If the only reason they're not produced in the United States is because domestic industry is stifled by production overseas with no environmental or worker standards, it very well could make sense. 

Part of the silliness with environmental policy (at least in North America) is that we impose standards on carbon etc here that cost our industry money, and then companies offshore that production to Sri Lanka or somewhere where they don't apply.  Those industries are fair game for tariffs, IMO. 

47 minutes ago, Rebound said:

Trump, on the other hand, proposes a 10 to 20 percent tariff on ALL imported goods and a SIXTY PERCENT Tariff on ALL imported Chinese goods.

Trump's a buffoon and his policies are buffoonish.  What he does understand, however, is the resentment people feel about situations like the one above.  I don't for a second think he'll solve anything or he gives a shit about helping anyone but himself, but there's a low cunning involved in acknowledging and amplifying the anxieties he speaks to.  

[Rebound]

39 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

There are many reasons and circumstances, but the most common would probably be to use as a bargaining chip. Consider china for example, there are many many products that America manufactures that are not allowed to be sold in china. But china has largely unfettered access to the American Market. This made sense back in the day to keep them out of the hands of the Russians but now it might make sense to start putting significant tariffs on all Chinese goods and then suggest you will lift them on some or all goods provided china gives access to the Chinese market for American Products.

That's just one example. There are plenty of other reasons why you might consider it as well. It just depends on the circumstances and what your goals are

What American-made goods are being embargoed by China? I know the US embargoes a ton of goods to China, but what the the American products which are forbidden by China, besides social media?

[Deluge]

On 9/10/2024 at 10:06 AM, Rebound said:

Trump’s tax plan is terrible for the average American.

A tariff is a tax paid by Americans on the products we buy.  A tariff of 20% means the computers, smartphones, clothing, and most other products you buy will cost 20% more.  China does not pay the tariff, the American taxpayer does. And it is a regressive tax because the poor pay the same rate as the rich.  So it’s great for the rich and sucks for the poor, especially when Trump’s planned tax cuts for the rich and Capitol gains tax cuts are added in. 
 

It’s just the little guy giving money to the rich guy in Trump’s America. Trump’s plan is terrible for most Americans, it’s extremely inflationary, and other nations will retaliate on our exports. 

Tariffs are duties imposed by a government on imported goods from other countries. 

Show me where Trump plans to ignore that and turn on the American people instead. 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Rebound said:

What American-made goods are being embargoed by China? I know the US embargoes a ton of goods to China, but what the the American products which are forbidden by China, besides social media?

Social  media? how about regular media.  Huge amounts of print, film and other media deemed 'culturally inappropriate' or the like is banned or restricted. Many manufactured goods many commodities.  By 2017 they had about 110 bilion in tariffs as well. 

So let me ask a question. You must have known that there were trade restrictions with china. I took the time to give you an honest and true answer to a legitimate question and rather than actually discuss the answer you're playing some sort of childish sea lion game where you pretend that there are no restrictions and demand that I list them.

The whole point was that there are many reasons why tariffs maybe used effectively.

[robosmith]

3 hours ago, Deluge said:

Tariffs are duties imposed by a government on imported goods from other countries. 

Show me where Trump plans to ignore that and turn on the American people instead. 

Consumers will PAY THOSE DUTIES. Duh

[Five of swords]

6 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Consumers will PAY THOSE DUTIES. Duh

No, actually the consumers don't pay the duties.

[robosmith]

36 minutes ago, Five of swords said:

No, actually the consumers don't pay the duties.

The importer will always pass any tariffs along to the consumer.

Maybe just a percentage if he's really desperate to sell.

[Five of swords]

4 minutes ago, robosmith said:

The importer will always pass any tariffs along to the consumer.

Maybe just a percentage if he's really desperate to sell.

Consumers don't have to buy imported goods.

[robosmith]

6 minutes ago, Five of swords said:

Consumers don't have to buy imported goods.

Only if there are domestic providers.

[Deluge]

1 hour ago, robosmith said:

Consumers will PAY THOSE DUTIES. Duh

Link legitimate sources, dumbass.  

[Rebound]

5 hours ago, Deluge said:

Tariffs are duties imposed by a government on imported goods from other countries. 

Show me where Trump plans to ignore that and turn on the American people instead. 

Have you ever purchased something and paid sales tax in it? A tariff is the same thing. It is a tax the consumer pays on the imported goods they purchase.  It is added to the price of the product they buy.  

[Deluge]

12 minutes ago, Rebound said:

Have you ever purchased something and paid sales tax in it? A tariff is the same thing. It is a tax the consumer pays on the imported goods they purchase.  It is added to the price of the product they buy.  

Do you understand the difference between tariffs and sales tax? I don't think you do because you're trying to tell me about sales tax, not tariffs. lol

When we lay a tariff on another country, that means they pay us to bring their product into our country. You're trying to tell me that Trump wants to give everyone a free pass so that he can lower the boom on Americans, instead. That doesn't make any sense.