Federal government to put 100% tariff on EVs made in China

[blackbird]

At the present time, most north American EVs are manufactured in the U.S.  

The average price of an EV made in the U.S. is about $75,000.  People are shunning them because they are so expensive.  Yet an EV made in China is about $17,000.

The tariff is designed to protect the Canadian and American auto manufacturing industry.

The government has put timelines on the future purchase of gas powered vehicles and requires a majority of new vehicles to be EVs by a certain date.

So my question is how is this going to work when the price of EVs is so high in Canada and many people are already struggling to put food on the table or make the high mortgage or rent payments?  Many younger Canadians cannot afford to buy their own home and probably never will be able to.  How is trying to force Canadians to shift to buying EVs going to work when they are so expensive in Canada and people simply can't afford them?   

While the federal government has been attacking the energy industry, they give billions of dollars in grants to EV battery companies.  They are great at picking winners and losers.  They have no interest in allowing the natural flow of supply and demand to takes its course.  Intervention based on some questionable ideology is the rule, like the farcical war on climate change.

This is just another example of how badly the federal government is out of touch with Canadians and how they believe they are the ones who should decide how the world should work.  This is another reason why Canada's economy is in the mess it is in.

Edited August 30, 2024 by blackbird

[CdnFox]

They want to fight climate change! But, you know, they don't want to fight it THAT hard!  

[Guest]

6 hours ago, blackbird said:

The tariff is designed to protect the Canadian and American auto manufacturing industry.

What I like about China, is if you ever get to go to a city like Hong Kong or Shenzen, you will notice one thing rather quickly.

Its hard to sue someone for patent infringement there. You as a result, see a lot of copy cat products.

Sounds bad, but the brands that stand the test of time, do so because they must constantly innovate, but also, create a product so superior that it would make it difficult to copy it successfully.

More importantly (my point), is it makes the market incredibly competitive. You truly have to be a better product, or have better offerings to survive.

Its not a good sign, when companies don't feel an immense pressure to innovate, knowing they will constantly get bailed out by their governments.

I look at EVs. Why are you so threatened by them, as a country? Privacy breach potential? And you sell flagship Huawei phones and laptops, because?

You want the masses to adopt EV, well then, you need to make them competitive. 

Automakers shouldn't feel comfortable. 

Looking at Evs, the only brands I could see myself buying from are Tesla, Nio and BYD and the latter two offer way more bang for my buck.

Mexico and parts of Europe have already adopted BYD.

The result is expected. You're seeing the demand for these vehicles being met by businesses who have figured out scalability and can meet immense demand.

So you want a greener future, or at you simply looking to line the pockets of billionaires, at the expense of the planet?

[Michael Hardner]

They have no idea.  They don't want energy to fail though.

 

They want big companies to succeed even if they're not viable.

[myata]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

What I like about China

maybe just stop there? It has democracy too. And someone thought it could work both ways: no rules, no law and still, freedom.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, myata said:

It has democracy too.

There is no democracy in China. Used to be in Hong Kong. 

[eyeball]

4 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

So you want a greener future, or at you simply looking to line the pockets of billionaires, at the expense of the planet?

We also wanted a freer future which is why we should have been using human rights as the reason for imposing tariffs against China decades ago.

Choosing this moment over this issue...the future is fading to black.

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

They have no idea.  They don't want energy to fail though.

 

They want big companies to succeed even if they're not viable.

Viability is dependent on how many billionaire's you have compared to everyone else. Big companies get in line like the rest of us.

 

Edited August 30, 2024 by eyeball

[blackbird]

Wonder if this is a violation of the Charter of Rights somehow because Trudeau has been hammering us with carbon taxes on the one hand ostensibly to encourage us to reduce fossil fuel emissions;  now they are doing the opposite by denying us the right to buy affordable EVs that would reduce fossil fuel emissions.  How do they justify that one?  Wonder if someone could challenge this in court?  Probably have the union mafia after you.

[herbie]

They're so "left" they'll abandon their environmental policies to suck up to the USA.
Where they think the gov't helps them by making sure huge corporations don't have to compete and that's Free Enterprise.

Exactly like they did in 1965 only worse. The big three hasn't competed against small pickup trucks in 60 years, they just made ones they could make the most profit from and took away everyone's choice.

And they won't endanger those billions invested in battery plants. They'll just make huger batteries for those vehicles consumers will never afford. They'll go into fleets of in town delivery trucks the companies can write off and claim that's why your can of Pepsi went up to $5 in the near future.
And still leaves 10 years for them to jack up ICE vehicle prices $10,000 a year until EVs are equally profitable. Perhaps even see battery production costs fall another 90% (like it already did) so they will only need to charge $100,000 for a replacement in 2035.

[ExFlyer]

3 hours ago, blackbird said:

Wonder if this is a violation of the Charter of Rights somehow because Trudeau has been hammering us with carbon taxes on the one hand ostensibly to encourage us to reduce fossil fuel emissions;  now they are doing the opposite by denying us the right to buy affordable EVs that would reduce fossil fuel emissions.  How do they justify that one?  Wonder if someone could challenge this in court?  Probably have the union mafia after you.

You do know what tariff is right??

To help you "Tariffs are taxes imposed by one country on goods or services imported from another country. Tariffs are trade barriers that raise prices and reduce available quantities of goods and services for businesses and consumers."

"Tariffs have three primary functions: to serve as a source of revenue, to protect domestic industries, and to remedy trade distortions (punitive function). The revenue function comes from the fact that the income from tariffs provides governments with a source of funding."

Key here is , "source of revenue".  

We do not make EV's in Canada so, it is not in any way protecting domestic jobs and it is not to protect US jobs.

You also know that Teslas are mostly made in China?  "The Shanghai factory consistently builds more EVs than the three other sites—California, Texas, and Germany—combined. Tesla operates four electric car factories around the world—in California, China, Texas and Germany. However, one of them is crucial from the volume perspective: Tesla Giga Shanghai in China"

 

[CdnFox]

6 hours ago, blackbird said:

Wonder if this is a violation of the Charter of Rights somehow because Trudeau has been hammering us with carbon taxes on the one hand ostensibly to encourage us to reduce fossil fuel emissions;  now they are doing the opposite by denying us the right to buy affordable EVs that would reduce fossil fuel emissions.  How do they justify that one?  Wonder if someone could challenge this in court?  Probably have the union mafia after you.

No. There's no charter right that says "you have the right for your gov't not to be stupid or contradictory".  

Hell for ontario it seems like it's a prerequisite   LOL

The gov't has complete control over tarrifs and the like, and has the right to impose taxes domestically, and those two policies do not have to match. 

That's why elections matter.  That's why it's critical that voters make intelligent and good choices.  And they didn't and they'll pay the price for that now. 

[Guest]

I just don't understand why the government who states this is a crisis, wouldn't push for affordable EVs as soon as possible.

This is purely political. 

[ExFlyer]

2 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

I just don't understand why the government who states this is a crisis, wouldn't push for affordable EVs as soon as possible.

This is purely political. 

It is a dig at China. As I said, most EV's in the world are made in China.

It is a revenue generating plan.

It is to offset the tax breaks for EV's

[blackbird]

The strange thing is governments in Canada handed out tax breaks and grants to buy EVs.  They claimed to be fighting a war against climate change and believe EVs are a big part of the solution.  Then when China comes along with low cost EVs, they suddenly start worrying about the auto industry in Canada and give them special protection by imposing a whooping 100% tariff on EVs from China.  Since EVs from China were reported to be only $18,000 while north American EVs, which are made mainly in the U.S., average about $75,000, how can they still claim they are serious about getting Canadians to switch to EVs?  The whole thing is political.  They are catering to their base just as they did when they cut carbon taxes in the maritime provinces for home heating.  

The federal government deputy PM Freeland also claimed they want to defend the workers in China who are being exploited for cheap labour, etc.   If that were true, what about all the other goods made in China that Canadians buy?  There are countless products filling the Dollar stores and other stores throughout Canada.  Canada does several billion dollars worth of trade with China per year.  They are Canada's second largest trading partner after the U.S.  

When many Canadians are struggling to make ends meet with high mortgage payments, high rent, and high grocery bills, I don't think they will be able to afford a U.S. made $75,000 EV.  If anyone has some money for a new car it will most likely be a gas vehicle for a fraction of the price. 

Or is the government trying to reduce all motor vehicles on the roads in their blind crusade to fight climate change?  At present that seems to be the most logical conclusion.  Of course we should not forget the liberal elites will always be able to afford vehicles for themselves and government jets for the PM and his entourage to jaunt around the world creating tons of greenhouse gas.

Edited August 31, 2024 by blackbird

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

I just don't understand why the government who states this is a crisis, wouldn't push for affordable EVs as soon as possible.

This is purely political. 

So's the crisis i think. Or yeah, they'd be hauling them over here as fast as they could. 

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

The strange thing is governments in Canada handed out tax breaks and grants to buy EVs.  They claimed to be fighting a war against climate change and believe EVs are a big part of the solution.  Then when China comes along with low cost EVs, they suddenly start worrying about the auto industry in Canada and give them special protection by imposing a whooping 100% tariff on EVs from China.  Since EVs from China were reported to be only $18,000 while north American EVs, which are made mainly in the U.S., average about $75,000, how can they still claim they are serious about getting Canadians to switch to EVs?  The whole thing is political.  They are catering to their base just as they did when they cut carbon taxes in the maritime provinces for home heating.  

The federal government deputy PM Freeland also claimed they want to defend the workers in China who are being exploited for cheap labour, etc.   If that were true, what about all the other goods made in China that Canadians buy?  There are countless products filling the Dollar stores and other stores throughout Canada.  Canada does several billion dollars worth of trade with China per year.  They are Canada's second largest trading partner after the U.S.  

When many Canadians are struggling to make ends meet with high mortgage payments, high rent, and high grocery bills, I don't think they will be able to afford a U.S. made $75,000 EV.  If anyone has some money for a new car it will most likely be a gas vehicle for a fraction of the price. 

Or is the government trying to reduce all motor vehicles on the roads in their blind crusade to fight climate change?  At present that seems to be the most logical conclusion.  Of course we should not forget the liberal elites will always be able to afford vehicles for themselves and government jets for the PM and his entourage to jaunt around the world creating tons of greenhouse gas.

So, what EV's from China are $18K?  Where do you buy them? What dealers are selling them? You are making shit up.

What N/A made EV's average $75K?  You are aware most EVs in the world are made in China??

When and where did Freeland say Canada is protecting Chinese workers?  You are making shit up again.

Get wise about EV''s and then get wise on what Tariffs are all about.

You make up so much shit, it spills over on you LOL

 

Edited August 31, 2024 by ExFlyer

[CdnFox]

30 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

So, what EV's from China are $18K?  Where do you buy them? What dealers are selling them?

 

In china. 

Quote

You are making shit up.

 

Amusingly in this case he isn't

China's EV market is going global. Can U.S., Canada balance protectionism with reducing emissions? | CBC News

"There is an electric vehicle for any segment and any prospective buyer," she said. Those range from cheaper, smaller, more basic cars, to larger SUVs and luxury sedans.

In fact, the Seagull, a tiny electric car launched by Chinese automaker BYD (Build Your Dream) last year sells for as low as $10,000 US, or about $13,000 CAD, and it's just as robust as American cars, according to industry experts. 

"It's low cost combined with high quality," said Chengyi Lin, professor of strategy at INSEAD Business School in Fontainebleau, France. 

I found other references to chinese EV vehicles that were under $20,000 for full model vehicles.

Not trying to jump into your debate but it is worth noting that in reality we could very easily have access to a wide range of low cost vehicles that were 100 percent electric, but the gov't is standing in the way of that. For what it's worth. 

Edited August 31, 2024 by CdnFox

[Guest]

54 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

In china. 

BYD, is taking Europe and places like Mexico by storm. Several other Chinese EVs are selling heavily in Mexico.

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

So, what EV's from China are $18K?  Where do you buy them? What dealers are selling them? You are making shit up.

What N/A made EV's average $75K?  You are aware most EVs in the world are made in China??

When and where did Freeland say Canada is protecting Chinese workers?  You are making shit up again.

It was all on the news yesterday or the day before.  

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

In china. 

 

Amusingly in this case he isn't

China's EV market is going global. Can U.S., Canada balance protectionism with reducing emissions? | CBC News

"There is an electric vehicle for any segment and any prospective buyer," she said. Those range from cheaper, smaller, more basic cars, to larger SUVs and luxury sedans.

In fact, the Seagull, a tiny electric car launched by Chinese automaker BYD (Build Your Dream) last year sells for as low as $10,000 US, or about $13,000 CAD, and it's just as robust as American cars, according to industry experts. 

"It's low cost combined with high quality," said Chengyi Lin, professor of strategy at INSEAD Business School in Fontainebleau, France. 

I found other references to chinese EV vehicles that were under $20,000 for full model vehicles.

Not trying to jump into your debate but it is worth noting that in reality we could very easily have access to a wide range of low cost vehicles that were 100 percent electric, but the gov't is standing in the way of that. For what it's worth. 

Key is, blackturd is whining about tariffs in Canada and you cannot get any EV under $18K in Canada. You cannot get Chinese EV's in Canada. When you search lowest priced EV's, the chinese builders dp not even register.

He is also saying the average EV is over $75K when in fact "Fast forward to 2024, and the average price for a new EV is $55,353" with the very high end Tesla, Land Rover, Mercedes etc skewing the prices.

He claims that freelander is saying they are protecting Chinese jobs... again, he is full of it.

 

22 minutes ago, blackbird said:

It was all on the news yesterday or the day before.  

Show me.....back up your BS

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, ExFlyer said:

Key is, blackturd is whining about tariffs in Canada and you cannot get any EV under $18K in Canada. You cannot get Chinese EV's in Canada. When you search lowest priced EV's, the chinese builders dp not even register.

He is also saying the average EV is over $75K when in fact "Fast forward to 2024, and the average price for a new EV is $55,353" with the very high end Tesla, Land Rover, Mercedes etc skewing the prices.

He claims that freelander is saying they are protecting Chinese jobs... again, he is full of it.

 

Show me.....back up your BS

Sure, like i said i was just commenting on a factual component of the discussion (they are that cheap in china)  and wasn't refuting or supporting any one point. 

[herbie]

I hate being so pessimistic but that's realism when you see the same outfits benefit from every policy claimed to be protecting jobs/consumers.
And the hypocrisy of handing out EV grants to buyers and massive tax cuts and subsidies to our own EV producers and then bawling that China subsidizes EVs is hypocrisy at it's finest.

Those buyer grants were supposed to help people buy EVs until the makers scaled up production so the prices were similar and what happened? The dicked, dawdled ended production of affordable EV models and boosted prices on everything they made.
Stopped the Chevy Volt just when hybrids started to get popular. Ended the Chevy Bolt cuz it sold to well but the profit margin wasn't 'good enough'.

Same 1diots that sold 10 million Caravans and stopped production to sell Pacifica's at double the price. And filled car lots with Dodge Hornets hybrids that no one buys as they're 50% more than anything comparable. I was super interested until I saw the price!

Of the 20+ cars I owned since I learned to drive 9 were Dodge/Plymouth/Jeep, 2 Chev, 5 Fords. The next and probably last car I get will be a PHEV, from Japan or Korea.

 

[blackbird]

 Just read another article that says EVs from China are not sold in Canada yet because they are not up to standards yet.  They will probably be built to meet standards so they can be sold more easily in more countries.  The news item I saw on CTV or CBC news the other day did say they were about $17,000 or $18,000, but they must have meant that was the price in China because they are not being sold in Canada yet.

The price will probably be higher when they improve the quality of them to meet western standards.  But with the 100% tariff applied by the Canadian government, they will make them quite a bit more expensive.  However, they could still end up being a lot less expensive than north American made EVs. 

[blackbird]

On 8/30/2024 at 5:36 PM, CdnFox said:

No. There's no charter right that says "you have the right for your gov't not to be stupid or contradictory".  

You're probably correct.   But there doesn't seem to be any democracy in Canada.  Trudeau and his government imposes all kinds of things that Canadians never had a say in;  like carbon taxes.   While we get to vote for a government every four years, that has little to nothing to do with the laws and decrees Trudeau brings in. 

He is chosen by a clique of elites in Ottawa, Toronto, and Quebec.  So we vote for an MP but it doesn't seem to make any difference.  The liberal hacks in Quebec keep voting for the PM and liberals and they don't seem to care or have any idea what they are voting for.  Long as a son of Quebec becomes PM they are happy.

[CdnFox]

47 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You're probably correct.   But there doesn't seem to be any democracy in Canada.  Trudeau and his government imposes all kinds of things that Canadians never had a say in;  like carbon taxes.   While we get to vote for a government every four years, that has little to nothing to do with the laws and decrees Trudeau brings in. 

He is chosen by a clique of elites in Ottawa, Toronto, and Quebec.  So we vote for an MP but it doesn't seem to make any difference.  The liberal hacks in Quebec keep voting for the PM and liberals and they don't seem to care or have any idea what they are voting for.  Long as a son of Quebec becomes PM they are happy.

There is plenty of democracy in Canada, the problem is people have lost the knowledge of what democracy is.

They think the democracy is voting for the party that they like and consider to be there home team so to speak once every 4 years or so. That's democracy. It's like the Olympics or something, comes up every 4 years and you hope your team wins and you get all excited for a couple of weeks and then you go back to life.

Democracy requires the participation of the people and it requires it on a pretty consistent basis. People have to help select their leaders for their parties both federally and also at the riding level as well as provincially and at the riding level. Then they have to attend conventions or talk to the delegates who will be to discuss policy and what they would like to see. They have to organize groups of like-minded people who will write in and push for change or policy that they want to see.

If you don't do this then Democracy goes unused. And when the people don't show up, someone else shows up and runs it for them.

The biggest problem we have with democracy is the people